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    • Makers of insect-based animal feed hope to be able to compete with soybeans on price.View the full article
    • Thank you for posting up the results from the sar. The PCN is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. Under Section 9 [2][a] they are supposed to specify the parking time. the photographs show your car in motion both entering and leaving the car park thus not parking. If you have to do a Witness Statement later should they finally take you to Court you will have to continue to state that even though you stayed there for several hours in a small car park and the difference between the ANPR times and the actual parking period may only be a matter of a few minutes  nevertheless the CEL have failed to comply with the Act by failing to specify the parking period. However it looks as if your appeal revealed you were the driver the deficient PCN will not help you as the driver. I suspect that it may have been an appeal from the pub that meant that CEL offered you partly a way out  by allowing you to claim you had made an error in registering your vehicle reg. number . This enabled them to reduce the charge to £20 despite them acknowledging that you hadn't registered at all. We have not seen the signs in the car park yet so we do not what is said on them and all the signs say the same thing. It would be unusual for a pub to have  a Permit Holders Only sign which may discourage casual motorists from stopping there. But if that is the sign then as it prohibits any one who doesn't have a permit, then it cannot form a contract with motorists though it may depend on how the signs are worded.
    • Defence and Counterclaim Claim number XXX Claimant Civil Enforcement Limited Defendant XXXXXXXXXXXXX   How much of the claim do you dispute? I dispute the full amount claimed as shown on the claim form.   Do you dispute this claim because you have already paid it? No, for other reasons.   Defence 1. The Defendant is the recorded keeper of XXXXXXX  2. It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant. 3. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 4. In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant. 5. The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 6. In a further abuse of the legal process the Claimant is claiming £50 legal representative's costs, even though they have no legal representative. 7. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all. Signed I am the Defendant - I believe that the facts stated in this form are true XXXXXXXXXXX 01/05/2024   Defendant's date of birth XXXXXXXXXX   Address to which notices about this claim can be sent to you  
    • pop up on the bulk court website detailed on the claimform. [if it is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time] . When you select ‘Register’, you will be taken to a screen titled ‘Sign in using Government Gateway’.  Choose ‘Create sign in details’ to register for the first time.  You will be asked to provide your name, email address, set a password and a memorable recovery word. You will be emailed your Government Gateway 12-digit User ID.  You should make a note of your memorable word, or password as these are not included in the email.<<**IMPORTANT**  then log in to the bulk court Website .  select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box. .  then using the details required from the claimform . defend all leave jurisdiction unticked  you DO NOT file a defence at this time [BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ] click thru to the end confirm and exit the website .get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim type your name ONLY no need to sign anything .you DO NOT await the return of paperwork. you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.
    • well post it here as a text in a the msg reply half of it is blanked out. dx  
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Parking On Private Garage Entry


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I own a lock up garage it being 1 in a block of 4 the forecourt or drive to it is about 20 feet long and the width of said garage.

 

Owing to its position close to the school and near the main road in the village inconsiderate persons frequently park on the forecourt completely blocking entry to or egress from the garage.

 

Recently after waiting over an hour I contacted the police who attended very quickly but took 4 hours to locate the owner of the offending car.

 

The police informed me that had the car been parked on public property as in highway they could have and would have removed but as it was on private property they could not help other then locating the owner

 

Any suggestions legal that is would be welcome

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Hi, I'm not a fan of private parking companies but the other side of the coin is that I think we should all have consideration for others. Blocking of access / egress etc simply is not on.

 

Signage etc would be the way to go - access to be maintained at all times etc. The clamping idea is tempting, although I wouldn't fancy it myself, don't know what you might be dealing with. It's a shame that not all are born with manners, some have to have them put on.

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I had this is a previous house. There was a private road to the side which gave access to my drive and parents of the local school would use my drive as a turning point.

 

One lady was doing this as I arrived back one morning and as I turned into my drive, probably assumed that I was also turning round and pulled forwards (onto my drive) far enough to let me. She was extremely shocked and more than a little upset when I got out of the car, locked it and went inside the house remarking that I was working nights that week and wouldn't be using my car until about 8:00 pm.

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I Dnt think you have to go as far as actually employing a clamping security firm, just a sign will do, with a telephone number etc. just make it look official. that would be enough to deter most people! cost about £20 from a sign maker.

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I had this is a previous house. There was a private road to the side which gave access to my drive and parents of the local school would use my drive as a turning point.

 

One lady was doing this as I arrived back one morning and as I turned into my drive, probably assumed that I was also turning round and pulled forwards (onto my drive) far enough to let me. She was extremely shocked and more than a little upset when I got out of the car, locked it and went inside the house remarking that I was working nights that week and wouldn't be using my car until about 8:00 pm.

 

Nice one!

How was it resolved? Did you come back and find your tyres let down? ;)

********************************************

Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.

The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.

I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.

Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.

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Nice one!

How was it resolved? Did you come back and find your tyres let down? ;)

 

 

No. She threatened to call the Police; I said go ahead, they have zero jurisdiction (which isn't quite true, of course!)

 

However, wife (in anything for a quiet life mode) got me to move the car after about a half-hour.

 

Another day, somebody followed me onto my drive in order to turn, so I just stopped short, locked up and walked to the house - leaving him to have to reverse all the way back to the main road through other badly-parked parental cars.

 

Bearing in mind that these parents were trespassing on the private road; never mind my drive!

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We're considering getting one of those lockable posts for the middle of our reserved parking space - you need to be registered with the SIA in order to clamp for a charge, and there is no way we are compromising our principles by acting unlawfully and using '[problem]' tickets to solve the problem of people parking where they shouldn't :)

-----

Click the scales if I've been useful! :)

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We're considering getting one of those lockable posts for the middle of our reserved parking space - you need to be registered with the SIA in order to clamp for a charge, and there is no way we are compromising our principles by acting unlawfully and using '[problem]' tickets to solve the problem of people parking where they shouldn't :)

 

But you don't to release for free. The objective being to allow the motorist to feel they have got off lightly and to perhaps be more careful next time.

********************************************

Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.

The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.

I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.

Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.

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So, can I just confirm that I have got this right. If I park in an Asda, McDonald's etc. car park the company that patrols them are scumbags thugs and operate outside of the law. However, if somebody has the downright cheek to park on my land it is a different matter, and I am free to block them in with another car, or use the same methods as a PPC and get a supportive slap on the back from other members of CAG?

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So, can I just confirm that I have got this right. If I park in an Asda, McDonald's etc. car park the company that patrols them are scumbags thugs and operate outside of the law. However, if somebody has the downright cheek to park on my land it is a different matter, and I am free to block them in with another car, or use the same methods as a PPC and get a supportive slap on the back from other members of CAG?

 

No, you haven't got it right.

 

PPCs operate a money making [problem].

No one on this thread has suggested operating one in respect of privately owned land.

Further, this thread is about stopping people preventing access to privately owned and personal property. PPC operators are about something very different.

********************************************

Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.

The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.

I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.

Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.

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Hi, Bernie. But my point is if PPCs started to block people in with their vans we would cry "unlawful". If we are to stand up for certain principles, when these same principles cause ourselves discomfort, I feel it is a bit rich that these principles fly out of the window. If we don't practice what we preach the credibility of CAG is brought into question.

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Yes but the reason that PPCs (or clampers) might block people in is to extract money or to prevent the motorist moving their vehicle so they can attach a clamp and extract money.

 

If you take Pat Davies' example, he returned to his home, pulled onto his driveway, parked and went into his house. The blocking in of another motorist was incidental to Pat parking not the primary objective.

 

OK one can argue the morals of doing what Pat did but he was IMHO no worse than the motorist on his property. "Two wrongs don't make a right" but what he could have done is to have said "Oh, I'll move but I'm busting for a sh1t. I'll be back in a bit." And then take some time before returning and letting the motorist know what they should not have done.

********************************************

Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.

The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.

I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.

Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.

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I agree with your point about the money issue. However in Pat's (somebody who I have a lot of respect for) example the lady was only turning round. If we are to get angry about somebody backing into our own drive merely for turning and not stopping, and feel it is ok to block them in, how can we then argue that if we ourselves actually park on somebody elses land that they don't have the same rights to block us in?

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I agree with your point about the money issue. However in Pat's (somebody who I have a lot of respect for) example the lady was only turning round. If we are to get angry about somebody backing into our own drive merely for turning and not stopping, and feel it is ok to block them in, how can we then argue that if we ourselves actually park on somebody elses land that they don't have the same rights to block us in?

 

I wouldn't argue if the purpose of the blocking in was firstly for the security of the premises, secondly to protect the legitimate interests of the premises and thirdly and only incidentally to deter by means of inconvenience only.

 

So, if someone enters a carpark clearly signed at the entrance that the gate will be locked at a particular time, a motorist can have no complaint (and will not get support from me) if they arrive late to find the gate locked and cannot get their car out.

 

Just as I alluded to the possibility that Pat may have had his tyres let down, (and worse could have happened) a landowner who does the above may find damage to their gate or locking mechanism.

 

Some may, in these circumstances, have sympathy with the landowner others with the motorist. That is a moral debate I have no desire to get into! :lol:

********************************************

Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.

The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.

I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.

Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.

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