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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
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Help Please re: CCA decision


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Ooops! Sorry citizenB :p

 

That's precisely the reason Mr Z made a ruling that we never have drinks in the "office"! I dare not "break" the rule even when he's not here because sometimes some comments on the forum have me in stitches!!!! I'd be caught bang to rights!!!!!:D

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Ooops! Sorry citizenB :p

 

That's precisely the reason Mr Z made a ruling that we never have drinks in the "office"! I dare not "break" the rule even when he's not here because sometimes some comments on the forum have me in stitches!!!! I'd be caught bang to rights!!!!!:D

 

:D

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PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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  • 4 weeks later...

Good morning all, Mrs Z here.

 

This post concerns Citi Cards - boy, are they in so much trouble, this final straw has given me the kick up the backside that I needed to write a thick complaint file to Trading Standards and the OFT!

 

Quick recap:

 

Agreed a payment plan then reneged on it

 

Formal complaints not dealt with properly

 

Sending doorstep agents after getting (both DCA and OC) "do not darken my doorstep" letters, also outlining a diagnosed medical reason to the OC.

 

CCA request totally ignored, 12+2+30 days were up 20th July

 

Default notice sent 12th July

 

Complaint re Default Notice sent 21st July

 

Recieve a "dealing with your complaint" letter dated 22nd August

 

Recieved a letter from Egg (found out via another thread I posted that Citi now owns Egg) asking for details of account numbers and previous address history - no mention it was for a Citi Card.

 

Now this latest letter purported to be from Citi regarding 1st Credit (Finance) Limited.

 

The letter looks like it has come from 1st Credit, the envelope gives a PO box, Reigate address "if undelivered", yet the letter alleged to be from Citi has a Sunderland address at the top. This rung a bell with me, so I checked the Citi Cards file and lo and behold a letter from Capital Collection Agencies (CCA) is there with exactly the same address sent back in February!

 

I also note that CCA is a "Trading Style" of CitiFinancial Europe plc. After a feck off and do not darken my doorstep letter they left Mr Z alone.

 

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn216/Misterzeus/CITIADONE.jpg

 

Any suggestions/advice/opinions will be gratefully recieved, thanks :)

 

One very hacked off with Citi Mrs Z :mad:

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:DOops.. not a good idea to upset Mrs Z on a Friday (or any other day come to that) Citcards/1st Credit.

 

Okey dokey. The letter you can write back would be along the lines of:,

 

I am surprised that (company A) have passed this on to you. Perhaps they havent made you aware that this account is in dispute and has been since XX XXXX 200?.

 

I had assumed that (companyA) would be prepared to resolve this dispute amicably. However that appears not to be so. In which case, I am now sending my complaint to OFT, Trading Standards and the Financial Ombudsman, using your letter as a final response.

 

 

I look forward to your early reply.

 

Etc, etc... :D

 

Unless someone else comes up with a killer correspondence for you.. send em the above. I had assumed you had already sent to the FOS, but that was AMEX wasnt it.

Edited by citizenB

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Thanks citizenB, but Amex is the FOS complaint - lol!! My fault for putting both Citi and Amex on the same thread!! Sorry, honest!!

 

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction letter wise, I know the one you mean, I will do that also and of course include a copy to the complaint I will be getting together to post early next week!

 

It's strange, because the other day, I was thinking about Citi's treatment concerning Mr Z and how I must get my act together and get a complaint sorted. I must be physic musn't I??

 

Thanks again :)

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Just read that letter again, it is from the company that owns the debt at the moment, advising that they are passing the debt on to someone else ?. In which case, you could write back to them and say something along the same lines.. that you are surprised they are assigning the debt over whilst in dispute and as they have failed to make any attempt to resolve the dispute then you are passing the complaint over to TS/OFT/FOS.

 

When/if you receive a letter from the company that it has been assigned to then you can send the letter I posted up earlier. Does that make sense.. ?

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5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Hi citizenB, thanks again for your reply :)

 

The Notice of Assignment letter (looks like to me anyway) that it's "supposed" (and I use that word loosely) to be from CitiFinancial, but I'd put money on it that it's actually from 1st Credit - hence the "return if undelivered" address on the back of the envelope being Reigate (PO Box version of 1st Credit's address).

 

Let me see if I'm reading your post correctly, are you saying to wait until we recieve a letter from 1st Credit now Citi has assigned the debt over to them before replying to them? Sorry, getting myself all confused now - that's really not that hard at the mo :D

 

Have I got that right?

 

Also, are you saying I should do a complaint to the FOS in addition to Trading Standards and the OFT? The FOS will be well naffed off with me, especially after the large envelope sent with the Amex complaint!!! :D

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Hi citizenB, thanks again for your reply :)

 

The Notice of Assignment letter (looks like to me anyway) that it's "supposed" (and I use that word loosely) to be from CitiFinancial, but I'd put money on it that it's actually from 1st Credit - hence the "return if undelivered" address on the back of the envelope being Reigate (PO Box version of 1st Credit's address).

 

Let me see if I'm reading your post correctly, are you saying to wait until we recieve a letter from 1st Credit now Citi has assigned the debt over to them before replying to them? Sorry, getting myself all confused now - that's really not that hard at the mo :D

 

Have I got that right?

 

Also, are you saying I should do a complaint to the FOS in addition to Trading Standards and the OFT? The FOS will be well naffed off with me, especially after the large envelope sent with the Amex complaint!!! :D

 

Ok, letter in post 129 is to go to 1st Credit, either now or wait until you hear from them.

 

I would however write to Citi Financial saying you are surpirsed at their making the assignment to 1st Credit in view of the dispute.

 

If you are going to write to 1st Credit then you can also advise Citi that you have done so and also the fact that in view of their reluctance to sort the dispute amicably you are making a complaint and to whomever you are going to make that complaint.

 

Perhaps it might be good to check out TS and the OFT first, see what you get back from them. They are obliged to investigate now due the new laws they have. If no joy from them then send to the FOS.

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2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Thanks again citizenB :)

 

Ok will do, by the way I just tried to send you another PM and it says your inbox is full!!!!

 

 

Oh shoot :D Thanks Mrs Z, I will go n do a bit of dusting. Okey dokey.. squeeky clean now.. :D

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

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Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Oops, sorreeeeeeeeeeee :)

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

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2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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No worries, my own fault :p

 

I have rewritten and sent now :)

 

replied :D

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3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Good afternoon all, Mrs Z here :)

 

We posted off the CCA in dispute letters by recorded delivery on Monday. They were delivered on Tuesday (I've checked RM website).

 

This morning Mr Z has recieved this letter from 1st Credit.

 

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn216/Misterzeus/1stCredit-Citi-1.jpg

 

My first thought was that the letters have crossed in the post, but after re-reading 1st Credit's letter, I'm not so sure.

 

Should Mr Z respond to this letter or file and ignore?

 

Any advice gratefully received as always, thank you :)

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Monday was the 8th wasnt it ?. That is the date of their letter so I doubt this in response to anything.

 

Now why are they suggesting you send them £10.00 for Data ?. Your CCA request is still outstanding with the original creditor isnt it ?

 

Did you at any time send a SAR request to the original creditor ?.

 

Did you send the "I am surprised that this account has been passed over, etc " letter or were you waiting to hear from them ?

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

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Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Hi citizenB, thanks for your quick response :)

 

Yes, the letters I mentioned were the account in dispute due to no CCA templates. Citi have totally ignored the CCA request sent back in May.

 

We have never sent a S.A.R to Citi, that's why I'm wondering although 1st Credit's letter is dated the 8th, it was typed and sent yesterday if you get my point ;) after they had received Mr Z's " I'm surprised that this account has been passed over etc.

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Hi babybear, hope you are well :)

 

Even if they do get them mixed up ( which wouldn't be hard considering they lack soooo badly in the brain department :D) wouldn't what I've said actually be a reality?

 

Still don't know how to proceed though - anybody got any ideas please?

 

Thank you, Mrs Z :)

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Hi Mrs Z, I'm fine, hope you and Mr Z are too :)

 

Report citi and 1st crud for passing and chasing an account in dispute to TS and the OFT. This breaches OFT guidlines, the UCPD and the CPUTR 2008. Make sure you report them to thier own TS departments too ;)

Edited by babybear39
missed a bit
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Okey dokey... Just one more question, was there a post mark date on the envelope ?

 

Dear Cretin.

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE - I ACKNOWLEDGE NO DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY - PLEASE DO NOT IGNORE THIS LETTER

 

RE Account No:

Any Reference number they have supplied

 

I was surprised to receive your letter dated 8th September 2008

 

I wrote to both you and CitiFinancial on XX XX 2008. Both letters were signed for on XX XXXX 2008.

 

This account is in dispute and has been since (Whenever), and has been since Citifinancial failed to comply with my formal request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (sections 77-79) for which they also received the legally required fee of £1.00 I am at a loss therefore to understand why, I would wish to pay you £10.00 for that same document.

 

Until that document is received I am unable to assess whether I am indeed liable for any alleged debt, nor does it give me a chance to assess if the document was properly executed.

 

Right now, have you started/sent your complaint to the FOS/TS. If not now is the time to do so.

 

It is now my intention to make a formal complaint to Trading Standards with a request to take action against you for threatening action which cannot legally be taken, and misleading and agressive practices, contrary to the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.

 

I am sure you are aware that whilst my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default, enforcement action is NOT permitted; under S127, this constitutes a complete defence at law. Consequentally any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Unless anyone else can come up with something a bit more forceful. Send them that.

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5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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