Monument- Their interpretation of CCA 1974

[angel49]

This is the response I got from Monument re CCA request. They mention enclosing my credit agreement, all I received was 2 pages of their current T&C's.

 

I actually had a Providian Visa Card back in the dark ages, this then became Monument.

 

As for their "explanation", well, looks like I'll have to send them a CAG explanation of CCA.

 

[Having_A_Knightmare]

They are talking rubbish.

 

Just wait untill ther 12+2+30 days are up then report them to T/S.

 

HAK

[angel49]

Thanks HAK

I have a good response ready for them!

[Seahorse]

However, they may have a point about satisfying the requirements of the CCA. They only have to supply a copy IF one exists.

 

Quite clearly, there IS no agreement. And they WOULD need one to enforce any alleged debt.

 

Angel 1 - Monument 0. New balls please.

[pecky1]

Just wondering if there is an update with your CCA on Monument I have recieved exactly the same letter as you today with the current T&C no signed agreement.

Thanks

Pecky1

[angel49]

Just wondering if there is an update with your CCA on Monument I have recieved exactly the same letter as you today with the current T&C no signed agreement.

Thanks

Pecky1

 

Hi pecky

I am waiting for the time limits to expire on this one as the debt is not huge and they were getting £5 p.m but still hassled me. I had originally intended to use the following letter.

 

 

Re; your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

I note that you have replied to the above by sending a copy of your companies current Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the act and that your company is still in default.

 

To clarify:

According to the OFT, and the correspondence from the DTI just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement”

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form.”

This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy; (b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, what is being overlooked is the part highlighted, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

 

If your contention that current a set of conditions will suffice is based on section 7 of the copy of document regulations I will clarify this also for you

 

"7.--(1) Where an agreement has been varied in accordance with section 82(1) of the Act, every copy of the executed agreement given to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act other than section 85(1) shall include either- (a) an easily legible copy of the latest notice of variation given in accordance with section 82(1) of the Act relating to each discrete term of the agreement which has been varied; or

(b) an easily legible statement of the terms of the agreement as varied in accordance with section 82( 1) of the Act"

 

The highlighted section clearly indicates that this information is required in addition to the original terms and conditions contained within the executed agreement and not in place of them.

I am sure that you are aware that the ability to vary a document is Dependant upon the permission given by the debtor in the signature document, and this would therefore need to be shown.

 

To reiterate, all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and the regulations are explicit in the form in which it is presented.

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a true copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues.

__________________

[drob]

Hi angel49 .............. you received the exact same reply as i did from Monument. I also sent a letter to them telling them that what they sent me was not what i requested, still awaiting a reply.

 

Have you had the upmost pleasure in dealing with their American call centre??

[Sammy_66]

Hi Subscribing to this thread. I have requested at CCA from Monument. Still waiting for it = 12 days will be up soon so I shall see what they send me.

 

I have had "pleasure" of dealing with their American Call Centre. I don't speak to them now but I've had all sorts of messages left on my phone to call them. I am, of course, ignoring them. They must think I'm stupid to respond to some of their far-fetched messages especially as I know the calls are from America and they are telling me that they have a package for me!!??

[drob]

The american call centre are not fully aware of the UK consumer credit act. I had to send a letter before legal action in reference to telephone harassment to stop the phone calls.

 

I am now just waiting for Monument to respond to my request for a true and proper executed CCA........