First Credit have taken over my debt

[WorriedGirl]

Hi, I'm wondering if anyone can help me. Many years ago I took a credit card out with Morgan Stanley and for various reasons I got into trouble and couldn't pay the debt. After a while they passed the debt on to a debt collection agency and I have been dealing with one called Robinson & Way for a few years. In October 2007, I rang Robinson & Way to make my monthly payment (which I had been doing for some time without problem) and the call operator told me that my account had been closed. He checked my details several times and then said "It has been closed, don't question it". On Friday 28th March 2008, I received a letter saying the following:

 

"We write to introduce First Credit Ltd to you. GOLDFISH Bank Ltd has assigned to First Credit (Finance) Ltd the full outstanding balance due under the agreement referred to above. As a result of this assignment, the full amount outstanding is due to First Credit (Finance) Ltd immediately"

 

The letter proceeds in the usual way. I did what was asked and texted them today with my reference number and the rudest man in the world phoned and basically called me a liar when I explained why I hadn't made payments i.e. that I had no one to pay as my account was closed in October 2007. He threatned me with court action, said I had 7 days to pay in full and all the time I was trying to say that I used to pay Robinson & way £45 a month without any trouble. He even threatened that they would take money out of my salary and send bailiffs around to my house (I am not a home owner, I live in rented accommodation in Northern Ireland). I asked to speak to a supervisor and he said there was no need,my phone then cut out so I emailed them saying I was willing to continue with my payments of 45 a month. They haven't contacted me again yet but I suspect by the way he handled it that they are going to be a nightnare. I am really worried about court action and I don't know what to do. I never had a credit card with Goldfish, it was with morgan stanley and it has been with Robinson & Way for soem time until October 2007 when it was closed. Can anyone tell me what to do about this? I don't understand why, after paying Robinson & Way and having a good relationship with them, I am suddenly getting letters and calls from the most hateful people.

 

Please help, any advice at all would be really appreciated.

 

They haven't got back to me

[mrmarmite]

ello and welcome, 1st thing cease telephone convo's. DONT talk to them, 2nd send a CCA request (click the link below letter N)

 

send by recorded with a £1 postal order

they then have 12+2 WORKING days to comply

 

after this time you can LEGALLY stop all future payments to them until such time they provide a credit agreement with a signature against it, if as you say was a few years ago it's very unlikely they will have an agreement so you can tell the to "Go Fish" (no pun intended)

 

robbing way just bottom of the pond feeders that will do ANYTHING to get more dosh out of you, don't worry about it, don't panic, you are in good hands here. there is a few Caggers here who got/had dealings with them

[mrmarmite]

DON'T sign the CCA request, PRINT your name,

 

AND yet again STOP ALL telephone calls, they will get a little jumpy when they get the CCA request. don't panic about it, it is normal for them to threaten you with court ect....... it just means they don't have the CCA and they are TRYING to put the heat on. as said really don't worry about them, you can quote something from the CCA to them and they will go on about sommit else, why? coz they dont have a clue about the law.

[WorriedGirl]

Hi Mrmarmite, thank you very, very much for your reply. just 2 quick questions, do I need to send First Credit a letter asking them to cease telephone contact and communicate via letter only? Do I need to send the CCA request to Goldfish or First Credit? Thanks again for your help, excuse my ignorance on the subject!!!

[mrmarmite]

ok, if it first credit that chasing you and telephone you then yes to both, they will get arsey about the CCA request BUT it normal, as you new and not learnt much via CAG yet the more experianced Caggers love threat letters, you just gotta see through the "smoke" and then brush it of, I use to hide behind sofa when postman came round, now i'm like a dog ready and waiting

[mrmarmite]

do you know IF charges has been applied to the account? if so and you dont know how much you will need to SAR the O/C (goldfish) but will sort that later, get the CCA (Consumer Credit Agreement) sorted out for the DCA (Debt Collection Agency)

[mrmarmite]

at end of day if money owed fair enough, if the comapany couldnt be bothered to do a propper CCA then it's their tough luck, which was actually said by a person the created the Consumer Credit Act 1974,

 

BIG thanks to that person i'll dig out his piece and post it for you to read.

[mrmarmite]

AND as an after thought, if charges applied AND you pay interest, if they don't have a valid CCA they they DON'T have the legal right to charge charges or interest, do you have complete set of statements for account? if not the SAR is needed then you can sit down and remove ALL charges and interest and see whats left and pay it (bet only small amount)

[babybear39]

Hi WorriedGirl,

 

Wait for them to write to you. If they call again refuse to speak to them and repeat IN WRITING ONLY until they hang up

 

Then, when they write send them the CCA request letter:

 

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY

YOUR ADDRESS

DATE

 

 

THEIR ADDRESS

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:− Account/Reference Number XXXXXXX

 

With reference to the above agreement, we would be grateful if you would send us a copy of this credit agreement.

 

We understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77−79), we are entitled to receive a copy of our credit agreement on request. We enclose a payment of £1.00 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act. This payment is NOT to be paid used for any other purpose.

 

We understand a copy of our credit agreement, statement of account and deed of assignment should be supplied within 12 working days.

 

We understand that under the Consumer Credit Act creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

 

We look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

Mr A N Other

 

Amend to your needs, enclose the £1 payment as a postal order keeping a note of the serial number to check if they cash it, send via recorded delivery and keep a copy of everything. DO NOT SIGN any letters, print your name.

 

Note every call and transcript.

 

Also send them this letter via recorded delivery:

 

Your Street

Town

City

Postcode

 

DATE HERE

Company Name

Road

Town

City / County

Postcode

 

Re: Harassment by telephone

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: XXXXXXX

 

Dear Sirs

 

I am writing in relation to the quantity and frequency of telephone calls that I have received from your company, which I deem to be personally harassing.

 

I have verbally requested that these stop, but I am still receiving calls. (Delete if necessary)

 

I now require all further correspondence from your company to be made in writing only.

 

I am of the view that your continued harassment of me by telephone puts you in breach of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine.

 

Be advised that any further telephone calls from your company will be recorded. (**Even if you don‘t yet have recording equipment!!**)

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

[NAME HERE]

 

Good luck, best wishes and come back if you need any more help and to update us on your progress

[WorriedGirl]

Thanks for your help, folks. I feel a lot more at ease after discovering this site. I will do what you say and see how I get on. Thanks again

[mrmarmite]

yes it is important to note telephone calls, STILL don't speak to them (refuse to answer personal info) but do answer the calls, keep a log of dates and times, this will give you clowt in court if needed. i will say not answering the phone if you know who is calling wont count in court (not that they will know) but gotta cover rear end, it will all add up in the long run

[WorriedGirl]

Hi guys, i'm back again with more questions

 

I posted a CCA request to 1st credit on Wednesday 2nd April, following your advice (thanks!).

 

However, I received a letter from them yesterday saying "Thanks for your letter agreeing to pay off your outstanding account. Please call this office so that we can discuss your offer in detail and make the necessary administrative arrangements. If you do not contact this office, we will assume that you no longer wish to make an arrangement to clear this debt."

 

The letter from me that they are referring to, must be the email that I sent to them on Monday the 31st March after they called me and harrassed me down the phone. I was so upset that i emailed them and said that I would continue with my payments of 45 a month that I used to pay Robinson & Way. Since that email, I have discovered this site though, and when I looked at my first letter from them again, it said that I owed debt to Goldfish Bank. I never had any debt with Goldfish bank. With Robinson & Way, I was paying off a Morgan Stanley Credit Card. Now I don't know what to do!!!!

 

I emailed offering to pay when I was under duress and not fully aware of what they were asking me to pay. now I have sent a CCA request, I don't know if I should call them to arrange payment or leave it. They say if I don't call them, that they will assume I don't want to clear my debt (court?) but should I wait until I hear back from them about the CCA?

 

What should I do in the meantime? Call to tell them that I have sent a cca?

I know this is long winded, I hope I have explained myself properly

[babybear39]

Don't panic. It's a standard threat-o-gram from these numpties. They would have sent it before receiving your CCA request and they should now be in receipt of that.

 

File the letter, but DO NOT PHONE THEM. Can you afford the £45 a month? How much duress did they use? Have you set up payment with them yet? If so by which method?

[PossVox]

They have 12+2 days to comply with your CCA request so, if I were you, I'd sit it out and see what they come up with.

DON'T SPEAK TO THEM ON THE PHONE!

Remember, it's YOU who's in control of the situation now!

[WorriedGirl]

Hi, no I haven't set up payment with them yet. I said I would continue with my old payments and asked them to call me to arrange it. They never called me and in the meantime I discovered this site and sent a CCA request. Does that mean that any arrangements etc are at a stand-still until I receive my CCA? I am just wondering if I have put myself in a silly situation by emailing them after they first called me (before I sent the cca request).

 

So I should ignore the letter from today and wait until the contact me with the cca? can they threaten me with court if I do ignore this letter from today?

[PossVox]

I, personally, would ignore this letter from them and see what they have to say next. You haven't set any payment plan up yet so sit tight for their response to your CCA request.

If they don't produce it within the 12+2 day deadline then you can withold any further payment and they cannot take any court action against you.

[mrmarmite]

Hi guys, i'm back again with more questions

 

I posted a CCA request to 1st credit on Wednesday 2nd April, following your advice (thanks!).

 

However, I received a letter from them yesterday saying "Thanks for your letter agreeing to pay off your outstanding account. Please call this office so that we can discuss your offer in detail and make the necessary administrative arrangements. If you do not contact this office, we will assume that you no longer wish to make an arrangement to clear this debt."

 

The letter from me that they are referring to, must be the email that I sent to them on Monday the 31st March after they called me and harrassed me down the phone. I was so upset that i emailed them and said that I would continue with my payments of 45 a month that I used to pay Robinson & Way. Since that email, I have discovered this site though, and when I looked at my first letter from them again, it said that I owed debt to Goldfish Bank. I never had any debt with Goldfish bank. With Robinson & Way, I was paying off a Morgan Stanley Credit Card. Now I don't know what to do!!!!

 

I emailed offering to pay when I was under duress and not fully aware of what they were asking me to pay. now I have sent a CCA request, I don't know if I should call them to arrange payment or leave it. They say if I don't call them, that they will assume I don't want to clear my debt (court?) but should I wait until I hear back from them about the CCA?

 

What should I do in the meantime? Call to tell them that I have sent a cca?

I know this is long winded, I hope I have explained myself properly

 

As Babybear says "file it" you will prob find they might get little jumpy and attempt to put more weight on you but just ignore it and let us know whats said.

[mrmarmite]

another thing you can look at worried girl is guidelines set out for debt collection http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf

 

we know they breach them but at least you can read the "rules" for yourself

[WorriedGirl]

Thanks for all your help, it really has been great. I'll take a look at the guidelines so i'm ready to quote!! Will I answer them if they call me and tell them to contact me by letter?

[babybear39]

If they call, just repeat loudly IN WRITING ONLY PLEASE, they'll get the message eventually

[nicklea]

Hi,

Goldfish bought all of Morgan Stanley’s credit cards in June 2007 so that is why you now have to deal with Goldfish.

The reason I know this is that I’ve had an ongoing court claim from Morgan Stanley since May of last year and I got really confused when the name on everything changed to Goldfish.

Now a very important question for you. The letter you got saying that Goldfish had taken over from MS and that First Credit was dealing with the matter – was it sent by recorded delivery or just by ordinary post.

The reason I ask is that unless it was sent by recorded delivery to you then the sale of your debt from MS to Goldfish wasn’t legal. Now don’t think that this will make the debt go away all together but it is something useful to have up your sleeve when/if you go to court.

As part of your defence it’ll stop them in their tracks, but then there’s nothing to stop them serving you notice properly and then making another claim against you – but I don’t know if they would ever be bothered to do that.

It is s136 of the Law of Property Act that allows debts to be assigned:-

 

136 Legal assignments of things in action

 

(1)Any absolute assignment by writing under the hand of the assignor (not purporting to be by way of charge only) of any debt or other legal thing in action, of which express notice in writing has been given to the debtor, trustee or other person from whom the assignor would have been entitled to claim such debt or thing in action, is effectual in law (subject to equities having priority over the right of the assignee) to pass and transfer from the date of such notice—

 

The important thing in the bit above is "of which express notice in writing has been given to the debtor" because section 196 says that any notice must be personally delivered or sent by recorded delivery to be effective:-

 

"(3) Any notice required or authorised by this Act to be served shall be sufficiently served if it is left at the last-known place of abode or business in the United Kingdom of the lessee, lessor, mortgagee, mortgagor, or other person to be served, or, in case of a notice required or authorised to be served on a lessee or mortgagor, is affixed or left for him on the land or any house or building comprised in the lease or mortgage, or, in case of a mining lease, is left for the lessee at the office or counting-house of the mine.

(4) Any notice required or authorised by this Act to be served shall also be sufficiently served, if it is sent by post in a registered letter addressed to the lessee, lessor, mortgagee, mortgagor, or other person to be served, by name, at the aforesaid place of abode or business, office, or counting-house, and if that letter is not returned through the post-office undelivered; and that service shall be deemed to be made at the time at which the registered letter would in the ordinary course be delivered."

By the Recorded Delivery Service Act 1962 a letter sent by recorded delivery is equivalent to a registered letter.

 

Hope this helps

nicklea

[babybear39]

...

[WorriedGirl]

If I owe them almost £3000 and the CCA comes through, what do you think they would offer as a settlement fee? Is there any way of negotiating this?

[babybear39]

Start at 10% as often alledged debts are purchased for 5 - 10 % of the face value

[WorriedGirl]

5 - 10%, Really? I am shocked!!! i think I remember asking about this a year or two ago and I'm almost certain that the figure they gave me was only 200 less than the amount I owed (obviously I turned it down as it wasn't any good to me, still couldn't afford to pay it). Does anyone have any experience of negotiating a settlement?