feeling desperate and unable to cope, don't know what to do

[electrica77]

Hi all,

 

This is likely to be a long post, so apologies in advance, but I hope some of you will be able to offer some help and advice.

 

As the title of this thread suggests, I am feeling totally overwhelmed by my debt issues and I feel that it is taking over my life. I am finding it hard to remember when I didn't have debt problems, and the irony is that I have been such a careful budgeter for years! [edited]

 

i have got to the point where i just don't know what to do for the best or where to start with it all. I should probably give you some background and what i think the options are, and why I'm struggling with it:

 

I was fairly irresponsible in my twenties (am now 32) and had a load of debt on store cards plus some loans and 3 student loans (under old system). However when my dad died when I was 24, I was left a considerable amount of money and paid off most of the debt except the student loans and one bank loan. This was all fine, and I went back to Uni to finish my degree as I had dropped out due to my previous debt issues, incurring two more student loans under teh new system. I could still manage my payments, had a 5 year plan to pay it all off, and all was well.

 

However, I got into a relationship and bought a house at this time with someone who became increasingly unstable, and after a stint in the Gulf War the relationship was untenable. Unfortunately, since I had believed we would be together into old age etc etc, I had taken on a lot of debt in my own name (he couldnt get credit) to buy furnishings etc. This was manageable until a few interest rate rises and what have you, and the bank refused an equity loan that would have fixed everything at the last minute. We split up partially due to money pressures, and he refused to pay anything to the upkeep of the house or the cards, loans etc. I then had no choice but to pay just the mortgage and utilities as my wage was too low to manage it all. I went with Payplan in teh meantime for my creditors. Around 6 months later I met my now fiancee, and fell pregnant 4 months after that (I don't do anything by halves). I had been having problems at work, and the week i found I was pregnant, I had started a new job as a contractor. having found a buyer for the house, we moved to a new area, an expensive one, but that was a side effect of being near work.

 

It became clear that payplan wasn't working when some creditors refused to agree the plan, and I set up an IVA. However, when doing this I anticipated returning to work after the baby on the same contractor wage. This didn't happen as I was bullied all through the pregnancy (for being pregnant), and I became unemployed with the IVA failing after 6 months. We had a year of staggering from one crisis to another- i had to sue the employer for reasons relating to my maternity pay, because of this I couldn't get my claim for Maternity Allowance in in time, I was forced to go back to work at 4 months and then fired because i reduced my hours etc etc. It was hell. Two weeks before my unemployment benefit ran out (after which I was told I would have to make myself homeless) I landed a great job as a Commercial Officer for a global company. This has been our saviour, and after6 months I am starting to feel more secure in that we can pay our bills and eat without worrying, but even though we both earn pretty decent wages, we are constantly skint due to nursery fees, commuting costs etc, so unable to move to a cheaper area, and I still can't pay my debts! I just feel like it is never ending. This is now 12 years of debt worries coming out.

 

Now, this is the point: Two of my creditors have resumed chasing me through Cabot and Eversheds. The Cabot debt has had £1000 added in fees and costs if not more. Cabot are now saying they are referring me to their legal team as I have told them I am thinking of goingbankrupt, but they won't hold the account any more. I'm too scared to even speak to Eversheds.

 

My original creditors were : Student Loans (I had a fairly unpleasant exchange with Buchanan Clark and wells, but i think this is laregely resolved and the new loans come out with my tax each month) HSBC, Citi card, MBNA card, Capital One card, Dorothy Perkins, Debenhams and Principles cards, sainsburys Loans, and Hire purchase from Harveys furniture. In total about £40,000, or £32000 excluding student loans, which I know can't be included ina bankruptcy. How stupid am I, taking all this on? I know, and I feel so ashamed. I constantly feel like I've let my family down, and that my future is being hampered by my past stupidity.

 

I am now totally in a quandary as to what to do-

go bankrupt? this would stop a lot of the worry, but I think attacment of earnings would cripple us even if technically we have a couple of hundred quid at the end of the month, thats what pays for things like the exhaust faling off the (very necessary) car last month, and the MOT, and the dental work my partner had to have this month etc, not to mention luxuries like clothes.

 

i could start letters like a lot of people do on here- in my work I pick contracts apart so am used to the law and challenging the law etc, and am ususally more coherent than this post would suggest, but with a full time job, communting and a 17 month old son, Ijust don't know when I would have the time, not to mention the mental energy to fight all those poeple.

 

I am worried that bankruptcy will prevent us moving somewhere cheaper, or that moving first would incur a massive attachment of earnings.

 

i also know there are thousands of pounds of charges and interest I could claim back but am worried that by doing this it will bring me to the attention of the creditors who currently aren't chasing me. Similarly I could ask them to write off my debts as they havent been chased for over a year, but would that work, or just highlight me again?

 

I am up the proverbial creek without a paddle and it is affecting my work, my health and my family life. I am losing my temper more frequently with my son, which is totally unfair to him, and our lack of money is causing friction.

 

 

If you have got this far, well done, and thank you! I know this sin't the Samaritans but I need to get this off my chest and try and get some proper advice from people who know about it and who aren't trying to sell me a service. Can anyone suggest the best course of action, or a good order in which to do things? I have read around these forums, but i feel even more confused by options.

 

God, I sound so weak, and I'm not really, I'm usually the person other people turn to for advice, but this is really crippling me. Please someone help!:-?

[Curlyben]

Welcome to CAG and regaining control of your life.

 

First NEVER talk to these "people" on the phone as they will try and get you to agree to anything.

 

Before you even think about making any sort of acknowledgement or payment to a DCA you MUST ensure that they have the LEGAL right to collect the debt.

This is achieved by requesting a copy of the Signed, Executed Credit Agreement via a Consumer Credit Act (CCA) request.

There is a template letter to be found here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

Letter N.

Is it important to start the letter:

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY in Big Bold letters.

 

It is best to send this request via recorded/special delivery as there are some important deadlines to observe.

 

After 12 WORKING days the "debt" is in default and stays that way until the request is complied with.

If a FURTHER month passes then the DCA has committed a summary criminal offence and the matter should be referred to Trading Standards for action once the DCA continues to demand payment.

 

I hope this clarifies some things.

[tomterm8]

Hm, do you own your home, and if so how much is the equity?

[BeauBrummie]

Hi electrica77

 

You have come to the right place, sorry to hear of your troubles but just hang in there and some one will be able to help you from here.

 

beau

[electrica77]

Hm, do you own your home, and if so how much is the equity?

 

Hi, thanks all for replying so soon- sorry it was such a trek (and with many typos)

 

We don't own a property or indeed any assets- our car cost £500 and is necessary for all of to get to work and nursery. Apart from that we have no savings, pensions, life assurance- nowt. We're living month to month really. Would the landlord have to be told if I was bankrupt?

[jaxads]

Hi Electra -- we're all here to help. Now you've got this all out in the open you can look at it and make a start to get your life back on track

 

I know it's not easy, but we'll all do what we can to help and you've taken the first step already!

 

We're all with you. x

[electrica77]

Welcome to CAG and regaining control of your life.

 

First NEVER talk to these "people" on the phone as they will try and get you to agree to anything.

 

Before you even think about making any sort of acknowledgement or payment to a DCA you MUST ensure that they have the LEGAL right to collect the debt.

This is achieved by requesting a copy of the Signed, Executed Credit Agreement via a Consumer Credit Act (CCA) request.

There is a template letter to be found here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

Letter N.

Is it important to start the letter:

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY in Big Bold letters.

 

It is best to send this request via recorded/special delivery as there are some important deadlines to observe.

 

After 12 WORKING days the "debt" is in default and stays that way until the request is complied with.

If a FURTHER month passes then the DCA has committed a summary criminal offence and the matter should be referred to Trading Standards for action once the DCA continues to demand payment.

 

I hope this clarifies some things.

 

Thank you CurlyBen (and congratulations on your baby), I was thinking of doing this if only for a stay of execution.

 

I have heard mentioned on here something about not being able to collect debts if no original signed agreement is produced- would that mean the creditor has to write off teh debt? Most of my debts are at least 5 years old or more, so I'm guessing the chances of paperwork surviving are slim (especially with HSBC who apparently discard everything after 6 years)

[Michael Browne]

Most of my debts are at least 5 years old or more,

Any debts are Statute Barred after 6 years, as long as you have not acknowledged owing them in writing or made payments. Does that apply to any of them?

[electrica77]

Any debts are Statute Barred after 6 years, as long as you have not acknowledged owing them in writing or made payments. Does that apply to any of them?

 

Unfortunately probably not, as they were mostly cards so were used last in probably 2004 or 5- maybe the sainsbury's loan actually as i have a feeling that was more like 2002 or 3 or even earlier. HSBC I would have to check, but I'm not sure what paperwork I kept (I know, I'm an idiot, and I threw away 10 years of statements shortly before the bank charge issue emerged ). I think I haven't paid anything to any of these people since my Payplan arrangement in 2005- the IVA I later found out hadn't gone to a single creditor, just to the insolvency fees!

 

If I can get of some of this in loopholes, and not have to go bankrupt I'd rather do that, but don't know where to start really.

 

Alternatively, would bankruptcy just draw a line under it all? I guess those are my two choices, reading my own post back.

[Michael Browne]

I think I haven't paid anything to any of these people since my Payplan arrangement in 2005

Ok, let sleeping dogs lie.

I would start with the two who are actively chasing you now, ie Cabots and Eversheds. What are these for and how much in total?

[electrica77]

Ok, let sleeping dogs lie.

I would start with the two who are actively chasing you now, ie Cabots and Eversheds. What are these for and how much in total?

 

Hi Michael, thanks for your help

 

cabots is for around £4500 and was originally a citicard debt (note that the card limit was 3500, so you can how much was added in charges etc, and cabots are apparently adding interest too, although I believed they couldn't do that?)

 

Eversheds, I haven't asked, I have buried my head in the sand, although I only got the letter this week, but it says it is a value of £4753, so I'm guessing it's either MBNA, or Sainsbury's.

 

Should I call and ask them? Do you think it's better to fight them rather than go bankrupt? I'm worried the others will come after me again too.

[Michael Browne]

Should I call and ask them?

Golden rule is never, never talk to them. From now on keep everything in writing. I'd CCA them as in Curleyben's post #2

 

 

Do you think it's better to fight them rather than go bankrupt?

Obviously it's an individual choice, but generallly bankruptcy is a last resort

[spotnot]

Don't go down the bankrupcy line. Send the letter above to the two DCAs chasing you. It will give you some breathing space at least. Send the letters and wait. As you are waiting, look through all the threads that deal with the relevant DCAs, it will give you a better idea of how things proceed.

 

Don't beat yourself up about your situation, all of us on here have been there at some point, most are still going through it. But stick with us and we will see you alright.

 

Spotnot

[bigandyuk1]

Hi Electra77,

 

I am afraid I cannot offer any high level legal advice. I can however tell you that I was in debt to the tune of £300,000.00 although this included a morgage of £46,000.00.

 

I ignored all the letters from courts, DCA's and anyone else for that matter. In the end I was made Bankrupt in February 2006. This was devistating for me and my family. We moved into rented accomodation and my family thought that our world had ended. I also thought about ending it all.

 

In August 2006 my mother died and two weeks later I was diagnosed with throat and stomach cancer. My wife was told in December 2006 to get my affairs in order as there was only a 20% chance I would survive the operation that was going to be performed in February 2007.

 

The point of telling you all this is that I survived the operation against the odds and a year later I have now been offered a Job (which starts next week). Also I have been provisionally offered a morgage based on my new job lasting beyond my probationary period.

 

My wife is still chased by the odd DCA for debts that were ran up prior to all this happening and because of the support that can be found on this site I am no longer afraid of these debts or the DCA's.

 

Life is actually pretty great with or without money. I am not suggesting that bankruptcy is right for you but letting you know that there is life after bankruptcy and the Debts are never worth worring yourself to DEATH over.

 

Take a deep breath and just factor it all in as part of the day to day exitement that is living on the edge.

 

Kind Regards

Bigandy

 

PS. If this outlook on life causes offence to anyone then I appologise for voicing my heart felt opinion.

[electrica77]

Don't go down the bankrupcy line. Send the letter above to the two DCAs chasing you. It will give you some breathing space at least. Send the letters and wait. As you are waiting, look through all the threads that deal with the relevant DCAs, it will give you a better idea of how things proceed.

 

Don't beat yourself up about your situation, all of us on here have been there at some point, most are still going through it. But stick with us and we will see you alright.

 

Spotnot

 

Thanks guys, this has been really helpful. i shouldn't doubt myself, I'm a bitch when i get legal :grin: I've already successfully settled a case out of court this year (a childminder who left my child with someone else ) and I just took her to pieces, very politely and very legally in letters. It takes a lot of energy though, but I do this for work, so I sort of click into work mode once I can disengage the emotions.

 

Some questions:

1) What happens then, if i do this and they DO have proof? Do I have to pay them?

 

2) If they don't have proof, does that mena the debt gets written off, or that it is cancelled?

 

3)oh, and... as for the others who aren't chasing, do I just leave them alone for eternity, or should I write to them for confirmation that its been written off? I don't like the idea of leaving it hanging, particulalry as I'd like to get a mortgage sometime this side of 2020

 

4)And I suppose one last question- with regard to bank charges- should I forget pursuing them? I reckon I'm owed at least £5000, but will they all start chasing me then? SHould I resolve the debt first?

[electrica77]

blimey bigandy, that's a story and a half! Puts my woes to shame.

 

Well done on getting a new job, and on surviving cancer (my dad died of gastro-oesopheogeal cancer, so I know how aggressive it is). I'm glad things are starting to improve for you, you must feel like you can beat anything now!

 

Thank you for your support also, it means a lot

[spotnot]

If, and its a big if, they do have proof you can then arrange a very small payment plan with them. But as I said, its a big if. If they do send something chances are it won't be the correct form.

 

Some DCAs will write the debt off, and some you will just never hear from again. Some will be muppets and will continue to chase you despite not having a CCA but there are people you can complain to about this.

 

As you are just starting out, take one thing at a time. Send the CCA letter and then read as much as you can. You have an advantage in that you have some idea of how the law works.

 

As for reclaiming charges, there are differences of opinion on this. Some state if no debt, then leave well alone and forget the charges, some will go for them. It depends on you.

 

While you are waiting it's a good idea to get a copy of your credit file and see who has registered defaults/adverse stuff about you.

 

Once you have this we can deal with that too.

 

Bet you're glad you found us, eh??

 

Spotnot

[ScarletPimpernel]

1. If they are able to produce compliant, properly executed agreements, then you will need to think about coming to an arrangement with the creditors/DCAs. However, before then, you should be able to get the amount reduced by claiming back charges etc. There are various ways of dealing with it, but it's probably best to wait and see what they've got first.

 

2. If they cannot produce the required documentation, the debt is unenforceable. It still exists, but the creditor is unable to enforce it by court action. If they have no agreement at all, then that's it - there's nothing they can do, other than asking you to pay. Their requests may, however, be deemed as harassment under various legislation. If they have an agreement, but it does not contain the terms prescribed by s.61 of the CCA 1974, they can't enforce it. There are some circumstances where they may ask for a court to determine a non-compliant agreement enforceable, but this doesn't happen often.

 

3. In general, sit and wait for them to send a demand.

 

4. You can pursue them for charges first; submitting a claim for refund of charges puts the account in dispute, and the OFT guidance prevents them from undertaking collection activity whilst a debt is disputed. I had a case with HSBC in which I claimed the charges, and then they couldn't produce an agreement, so collected nothing at all. Some will be easier than others, but you will get plenty of help here, and between us we probably know how most if not all the various DCAs work.

[Michael Browne]

1) What happens then, if i do this and they DO have proof? Do I have to pay them?

 

Yes, ie the situation is no different from now, but only at a rate could can afford. The chances are that they won't.

 

2) If they don't have proof, does that mena the debt gets written off, or that it is cancelled?

 

The debts don't go away, merely that they are unenforceable. Eventually they will give up

 

3)oh, and... as for the others who aren't chasing, do I just leave them alone for eternity,

At least for the time being, you don't want too many plates spinning at once

 

should I write to them for confirmation that its been written off?

No, they won't agree to that and will just set them after you

 

 

4)And I suppose one last question- with regard to bank charges- should I forget pursuing them? I reckon I'm owed at least £5000, but will they all start chasing me then? SHould I resolve the debt first?

 

Depends how old the charges are, the longer you leave it the more charges will become Statute Barred (ie earlier than 6 years ago)

 

 

[electrica77]

ok, I've gone away and thought about all this, and reviewed my credit file as well as my old statements and letters etc, and I have decided not to go bankrupt because my credit file now contains nothing worse than a default or six, and that's bad, but a bankruptcy would be considerably worse. Most of my defaults have 4 years to expire, so why add two more years misery on top with a new bankruptcy?

 

For the two that are chasing- cabot and Eversheds (MAx Recovery), I am not sure what chance I stand, especially as i have found a fully compliant CCA in my Citi (now cabot) records (doesn't mean THEY can find it tho eh?), but I do know both companies registered a barrage of charges against me, so I am inclined to do the CCA and if that fails, throw it all into dispute by claiming charges back and at least reducing teh balance (assuming that the court case goes in consumers' favour, and that I can do this following a compliant CCA?). I will start two separate threads for these actions.

 

While looking at my credit file, perhaps with fresh eyes, I found a number of oddities-

 

A Debenhams card balance of £1300 or thereabouts has vanished without a trace (should I consider checking with the other credit agencies?)

 

A mysterious £5000 balance on a 'store card' has appeared for which I have no reference, and is registered under Max Recovery again. I don't think even Debenhams would have added £4000 in charges, but if they have, I'll be glad to claim them back, pay off the card, and go on a long holiday with the remainder . This must be either a fraudulently obtained card, or one that has been incorrectly registered to my name.

 

On this topic, my file also shows an alias I have never used, but which combines my first name with my mother's maiden name (but her name was Jones, so that isn't really proof of anything). Not sure what to do about this.

 

It also still has records of my University addresses from the late 90's and links me to my ex partner (we still have an unused joint account which I think I must close now).

 

Any advice on these issues would be appreciated- again I might start another thread to avoid confusion.

 

Just want to say thanks so much to all of you who posted to me today. It really helped me to realise I have alternatives and support, and that I can use my skills and knowledge to at least fight some of this stuff, and hopefully win some too. It also gave me a good kick up the a*se, and made me realise that these people aren't magic and can't just do stuff they want without reference to anyone else.

 

i think i will have to take things one step at a time- I am anxious not to lose the chance to claim back charges off my other creditors, so need to ponder that carefully, but I will post in the charges forum about that. HSBC have it coming, but I don't want to reawaken their interest in me. Hmmm...

 

Anyway, Thanks everyone!! I'm glad I posted today.

[electrica77]

oh yes, i forgot-

 

my credit file also shows my (collapsed) IVA as having a 'satisfied by' date and saying it is 'completed'.

 

Is that normal? Is this why none of the others are chasing me?

[spotnot]

Its amazing the difference a day makes!! Glad to hear you are more positive now. Let us know if you need any more help.

 

Regarding your IVA, it may be better to ask in the Legal forum.

 

Spotnot