geoffmr1 V HFC/ Weightmans

[geoffmr1]

Can I just send the Court & Weightmans a disclosure by list the same as in Robcag's thread or do I have to complete the court form N265??

[robcag]

Can I just send the Court & Weightmans a disclosure by list the same as in Robcag's thread or do I have to complete the court form N265??

 

Geoff, see post #199 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/133700-geoffmr1-hfc-weightmans-10.html#post1615582

 

Cheers

Rob

[geoffmr1]

Ha ha, thanks Robcag.

 

My brain is frazzled with all this stuff, I completely missed your post!!

[miffedpuppy]

I have said this before on another thread about the DN and looking at yours it appears the same.

DN's from HFC normaly come out with the collections centre address etc in the top left hand corner also genuine ones are stated as HFC Bank Ltd not HFC Bank plc.

HFC Bank is a Ltd company not a plc it is a wholely owned subsidury of HSBC plc. If this makes a difference or not I have no idea. But it does look like a non genuine one.

[geoffmr1]

Just a quick question about my Disclosure by list.

 

Under the correspondances I am wondering whether to include the confirmation I received from the CCCS that I'm on a debt management plan from Sept '07.

 

I'm not sure if I need to include things like this as I know its not directly about this case, however should the judge find for HFC/Weightmans then its more a reason to show why I couldn't pay the lump sum like they requested!!

 

So should I include it or not??

[geoffmr1]

Right I have done my disclosure. I took the template & some stuff from Robcag's. Any suggestions or anything else I need to include please feel free to let me know. I need to get this off in the next couple of days.

 

I've moved the disclosure list to comment #211

 

 

Edited July 21, 2008 by geoffmr1

[robcag]

Hi Geoff

 

It might be good to include the CCA 2006 in your list as well as the CCA 1974 to cover the part about (copied from my defence) "schedule 3, s11 of the Consumer Credit Act 2006 prevents s15 repealing s127 (3) of the 1974 Act for agreements made before s15 came into effect".

Also, personal preference maybe, but IMHO your finished document would probably look better if the alignment of the main part of your list was to the left rather than centred, and there seems to be a lot of unneccessary underlining.

Cheers

Rob

[robcag]

Geoff, regarding what I said about including CCA 2006, see post #108 here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/124572-hfc-no-agreement-amended-6.html#post1348616

 

Cheers

Rob

[geoffmr1]

Thanks Robcag,

 

I don't know why everything has become underlined on here, its not that way on my pc. I've managed to put most of the main body to the left now, but the underlining is still there.

 

Anyway to be honest I'm more concerned about the content. I'll put the CCA 2006 in.

[robcag]

 

.... I'll put the CCA 2006 in.

 

Don't forget the further info referred to in my post #208

 

Cheers

Rob

[geoffmr1]

Right here is the Disclosure list, I'll delete the last one off.

 

In the xxxxxxxxx County Court

Claim number: 8xxxxxx

 

 

 

 

HFC Bank Limited – Claimant

 

And

 

Geoffmr1 – Defendant

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DISCLOSURE BY LIST - of - Geoffmr1 – DEFENDANT

 

 

 

 

I, Geoffmr1, of x xxxxxxxx xxxx, xxxxxx, xxxxxxx, xxxx xxx, being the defendant in this case, intend to rely on the following documents in court:–

 

1. Correspondances

(A) Letter from Consumer Credit Counselling Service dated 10th Sept 2007 confirming Geoffmr1 and partners Debt Management Plan.

(B) Copy of letter to Weightmans dated 17th Sept 2007 updating my circumstances and giving details of joint Debt Management Plan.

© County Court Claim form issued by Claimant, dated 15th February 2008.

(D) Copy of formal request, dated 21st Feb 2008, from Geoffmr1 to Weightmans, requesting a copy of the relevant executed Consumer Credit Agreement under S.78 Consumer Credit Act 1974, together with proof of posting and delivery.

(E) Copy of letter from Geoffmr1 to Weightmans dated 14th April 2008 advising non compliance with Consumer Credit Agreement request, together with proof of posting and delivery.

(F) Letter from Weightmans to Geoffmr1 dated 14th April 2008.

(G) ‘Priority Application Form’ referred to as credit card agreement by Weightmans in above letter (F), along with separate sheet containing ‘General Information About Your GM Card’.

(H) Statements of account between 11th Dec 1999 and 2nd Jan 2007.

(J) Letter from Weightmans to Geoffmr1 dated 24th April 2008, together with reply to defence and Allocation Questionnaire.

(K) Letter from The GM Card to Geoffmr1 dated 25th April 2008 offering a goodwill payment to be credited to account of £366.07 for unlawful penalty charges.

(L) Copy of acceptance from Geoffmr1 to The GM Card of goodwill payment, dated 22nd May 2008 together with proof of posting and delivery.

(M) Copy of letter from Geoffmr1 to Weightmans dated 24th May 2008, requesting exhibit’s which Weightmans intend to rely on in Court and asking for settlement figure, together with proof of postage and delivery.

(N) Notice of Assignment from Weightmans to Geoffmr1 dated 17th June 2008, informing me Phoenix Recoveries (UK) Limited s.a.r.l. has acquired all rights from HFC Bank Limited.

(O) Copy of Official Subject Access Request from Geoffmr1 to Weightmans dated 23rd June 2008, together with proof of postage and delivery.

(P) Copy of letter from Geoffmr1 to Weightmans dated 27th June 2008 advising I still hadn‘t received exhibits or settlement figure, along with proof of postage and delivery.

(Q) Court Document: Notification of Allocation to the Fast Track, with Directions, dated 2nd July 2008.

® Letter from Weightmans to Geoffmr1, dated 9th July 2008, together with a further copy of reply to my defence, two exhibits they intend to rely upon in Court and confirmation Weightmans are dealing with the Subject Access Request.

(S) Default Notice dated 11th April 1194 received from Weightmans in letter referred to above ®.

2. Authorities and Case Laws

 

(AA) Civil Procedure Rules, Rules & Practice Directions.

(BB) Consumer Credit Act 1974

(CC) Consumer Credit Act 2006 (Commencement No: 2 and Transitional Provisions and Savings) Order 2007 (No. 123 (C.6))

(DD) Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983

(EE) Consumer Credit (Agreements) (Amendment) Regulations 2004

(FF) Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983

(GG) The Administration of Justice Act 1970

(HH) Moneylenders Act 1927

(JJ) Wilson and another v Hurstanger Ltd [2007] EWCA Civ 299

(KK) Wilson v First County Trust Ltd - [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul)

(LL) Woodchester Lease Management Services Ltd v Swain & Co - [1998] All ER (D) 339

(MM) Orakpo v Manson Investments Ltd (1978) AC 95

(NN) Dimond v Lovell (2002) 1 AC 384

 

Statement of Truth

I certify that I understand the duty of disclosure and to the best of my knowledge I have carried out that duty. I further certify that the list of documents set out in this List is a complete list of all documents which are or have been in my control and which I am obliged under the order to disclose.

 

I believe the facts stated within this document to be true and the document comprises of three pages.

 

Dated this 22nd day of July 2008.

 

Signed

 

Geoffmr1

 

 

Robcag, thanks for the help, hopefully this is now ok??

Edited July 22, 2008 by geoffmr1
Wanted to tidy up & update Disclosure list

[robcag]

 

 

Robcag, thanks for the help, hopefully this is now ok??

Just passing on the advice I was given when it was my turn to ask

 

One other thing though, if my experience with Restons is anything to go by, you won't receive a disclosure list from Weightmans on time. They're probably waiting to see yours first, so I'd post it by SD at the latest available time you can to meet the deadline set by the court directions.

 

I received a last minute letter from HFC which I was able to add to my list, even though I'd printed it all out and was about to go to the PO!

 

Cheers

Rob

 

[geoffmr1]

Robcag,

 

The directions say the disclosure must be with each party by 25th July 2008. I take it that includes the 25th or should I send it off to get there for the 24th??

 

I haven't included stuff like the allocation questionnaire in my list as I don't see thats relevant to the actual day. I've only included the stuff I may need to refer to in court. Really the most prominent things were the Authorities & case laws, plus the CCA agreement (or as we know it to be an application form).

[robcag]

Robcag,

 

The directions say the disclosure must be with each party by 25th July 2008. I take it that includes the 25th or should I send it off to get there for the 24th??

 

 

Presumably that's 4:00pm on the 25th?

 

I'd leave it til the last minute Geoff, i.e. post it SD on the 24th (normal SD guarantees delivery by 1:00pm, don't use the 9:00am service )

 

Just make sure you haven't got any appointments with runaway buses on the 24th.

 

If you live near the court you can hand in their copy personally any time up until 4:00pm on the 25th when the office closes its doors.

 

Cheers

Rob

[geoffmr1]

Just re-reading my defence that Paul so kindly gave me & I found this bit below:

 

50. This interpretation of the Consumer Credit Act accords with the approach adopted by the House in Orakpo v Manson Investments Ltd [1978] AC 95, regarding section 6 of the Moneylenders Act 1927 and, more recently, in Dimond v Lovell [2002] 1 AC 384, another case where section 127(3) precluded the making of an enforcement order. In Dimond's case the restitutionary remedy sought was payment of the hire charge for a replacement car used by Mrs Dimond. The House rejected a claim advanced on the basis of unjust enrichment. Lord Hoffmann observed that Parliament contemplated that a debtor might be enriched consequential upon non-enforcement of an agreement pursuant to the statutory provisions. It was not open to the court to say this consequence is unjust and should be reversed by a remedy at common law: [2002] 1 AC 384, 397-398.

 

 

Should I put Orakpo v Manson & Dimond v Lovell in my disclosure list under case laws??

[robcag]

 

Should I put Orakpo v Manson & Dimond v Lovell in my disclosure list under case laws??

 

Why not?

 

Cheers

Rob

[geoffmr1]

Hi Robcag,

 

Do you think I need to put in the Moneylenders act 1927 if I'm including those two cases??

[robcag]

Hi Geoff

 

As I sometimes state when I'm replying to threads, I'm no expert, which is why when I did my disclosure list I may have gone over the top a bit by including everything which I thought may have been used in court.

 

I can't see how including anything which you may have referred to in your defence will cause any harm, so IMHO it's better to include something than not.

 

Cheers

Rob

[geoffmr1]

Hi Rob,

 

Sorry to be a real pain in the backside but I've just updated the disclosure list under comment number #211. Would you mind just having another look through just to check its ok to send.

 

Your help has been greatly appreciated with this list!!

[robcag]

Hi Geoff

 

Sorry about the delay in replying but I've been out all afternoon.

 

As I said, I'm no expert, but I can't see anything to panic about with your list, it looks OK to me.

 

Hopefully you won't actually get to the final trial stage and none of that stuff will be needed, but I guess the more stuff you include on your list, the more there is for the opposition to think about.

 

Cheers

Rob

[geoffmr1]

Thanks Rob,

 

Like always its just good to have a second opinion thats why I asked you to have a look over it.

 

I double checked with the Court & it can arrive there on Friday 25th, so I'll be sending them both off tomorrow by SD to arrive before 1pm.

 

I'm pretty sure it will go to trial. The issue revolves around the 'Priority Application Form' & I don't forsee that being sorted without the judge deciding.

[robcag]

Like always its just good to have a second opinion agreed. and a bit of moral support doesn't go amiss either thats why I asked you to have a look over it.

 

I double checked with the Court & it can arrive there on Friday 25th, so I'll be sending them both off tomorrow by SD to arrive before 1pm.

 

I'm pretty sure it will go to trial. The issue revolves around the 'Priority Application Form' & I don't forsee that being sorted without the judge deciding. Let's see if Weightmans are any better than playing the game according to the rules than Restons were in my case. Who knows, if they don't comply, there may be opportunities for you to make applications to the court for strike-outs, costs etc.

 

Thanks for the rep Geoff

 

Cheers

Rob

[geoffmr1]

Your welcome Rob.

 

I have sent off the disclosure list to the court & Weightmans today by special delivery, to arrive before 1pm tomorrow.

 

I haven't received Weightmans list yet either so they must be leaving it until the final day also, as robcag predicted.

 

I'll update again as soon as I know something new.

[djc]

hi geoffmri

please look at my thread heading arrows global receivables/cope's solicitors

if you look at last two postings i would suggest you cover yourself by ringing court office to ensure correct receipt and updating of your case file.

good luck

djc

[robcag]

I haven't received Weightmans list yet either so they must be leaving it until the final day also, or possibly later than the last day . It seems that some (or maybe that should that be most) of these people don't like playing by the rules.

 

Cheers

Rob