Marlin DCA & CCJ help please :(

[berniebobs]

*bump* for some help please?

[berniebobs]

Hi!

 

I thought I would update you on what happened. Arrived at the court to have their solicitor harrass me in the waiting room, bombarding me with questions and telling me that all Im doing is adding money to my debt in court costs and was I just hoping it would go away!!! So after telling him I wasnt going to talk to him and to basically flip off, we went in.

 

I gave the solicitor the defence ammendment and now they have to reply to me within 14 days.

 

Surely, solicitors cant harrass you like that?

[palomino]

*bump* for some help please?

 

Sorry I couldn't help in time - not that I'm well up on this anyway.

 

Most people on CAG log on in the evening so there wouldn't have been much help available (if any) when you asked this morning.

[palomino]

 

Surely, solicitors cant harrass you like that?

 

They can but they shouldn't. You should have reported him to the Clerk of the Court immediately. Or to the judge as soon as the case started.

 

Some solicitors arrogantly think they are above the law and normal codes of conduct and propriety.

[berniebobs]

I think I upset him though when I threw Nickleas ammendment at him!!

 

The judge mentioned something about 'witness statements'? Why would I need them? Could anyone advise on this please?

[eggy12]

Bump for a damsel in distress

[berniebobs]

*bump* any help please?

[steven4064]

The judge mentioned something about 'witness statements'? Why would I need them? Could anyone advise on this please?

Has the court given you anything in writing? If so, can you post it. Otherwise you need to find out what the witness statement is for - ring the court office and ask ASAP. Once we have thet clear, we can help.

[berniebobs]

Thanks Steven, not had anything in writing. I will ring the court today.

[berniebobs]

Hi Steven & all other friends,

 

Here are the court papers I received today, would you mind looking them over?

 

Thanks

 

 

[steven4064]

Standard disclosure by list means that you have to supply a list of all the documents you intend to rely on in court (may be none - in which case you shoild say so) and they must do the same. Once you get their list you can ask to inspect any - I strongly recommend you ask to inspect the CCA (if there is one) although your ability to do so may be hampered by distance.

 

Note it says that original documents should be brought to the hearing

 

The witness statement is a bit like the defence but is limited to the facts of the case. It should contain a brief history of the case, what you wrote asking for and when and what they replied with. If they haven't supplied an enforceable CCA this should be highlighted, or if it is illegible, etc

 

Here is one I wrote for Icepop - it doesn't quite comply with what I just wrote but it is a bit of a speciel case - it should give some ideas though

[berniebobs]

Hi Team

 

Ive sent you the latest bumpf from Marlin (sorry it goes on a bit), hope you are able to stick on your legal hats and help a distressed lady. x

 

 

 

[berniebobs]

Then we have exhibit one:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[berniebobs]

exhibit one continued...

 

 

 

[berniebobs]

The we move onto exhibit 2.....

 

[berniebobs]

Then we have exhibit three...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hope you can help me please, as im now one step away from losing it.

[steven4064]

What a load of guff.

 

IMHO, the only thing of any significance is para 1 of the reply to the defence. The Rankine case is bad law but the bit quoted is right - the fact that they have not supplied you with a copy is not an adequate defence. But them not having a copy is.

 

I would write back and point out the provisions in CPR Practice Direction 16 para 7.3

7.3 Where a claim is based upon a written agreement:

 

(1) a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing

Tell them, that, although they may not need to provide a copy of the agrement under s77 or 78 of teh CCA 1974, they do need to provide one under the CPR and they must produce an original in court. Copy the letter to the court.

 

I think the stuff about assignment is right too - they have produced a deed of assigment. You could point out that s8 of the Civil Evidence Act 1995 requires them to provide eveidence of it's authenticity:

8 Proof of statements contained in documents

 

(1) Where a statement contained in a document is admissible as evidence in civil proceedings, it may be proved—

(a) by the production of that document, or

(b) whether or not that document is still in existence, by the production of a copy of that document or of the material part of it, authenticated in such manner as the court may approve.

(2) It is immaterial for this purpose how many removes there are between a copy and the original.

You may decide that is not worth it though.

[palomino]

"Mr and Mrs Rankine have misused these indulgences to a great extent in all these proceedings by producing blizzards of lengthy, argumentative and incoherent pleadings and witness statements that has meant that the overriding objective has been impossible to achieve."

 

Lesson 1 : When you play with the big boys you had better know what you are doing and how to do it.

 

Lesson 2 : Don't upset a judge. It antagonises them.

 

 

Lesson 3 : see lesson 1

[mcuth]

Hi Team

 

Ive sent you the latest bumpf from Marlin (sorry it goes on a bit), hope you are able to stick on your legal hats and help a distressed lady. x

 

Interesting - no doubt I can expect something similar very soon, as I'm going through the same....

 

Did they file this Reply to Defence at the same time as their Allocation Questionnaire (it doesn't sound like it if your Defence was dated 9th June!)? If not, and there's no Order stating that they can file outside of the usual times, then they're probably in trouble because of CPR15.8 (link):

 

"Reply to defence 15.8 If a claimant files a reply to the defence, he must –

(a) file his reply when he files his allocation questionnaire; and

(b) serve his reply on the other parties at the same time as he files it.

(Rule 26.3(6) requires the parties to file allocation questionnaires and specifies the period for doing so)

 

(Part 22 requires a reply to be verified by a statement of truth)

"

 

Cheers

Michael

Edited August 20, 2008 by mcuth
Added a little bit in case there's an order...

[B3rty]

This is my thoughts from when I first read this a few months ago as the Rankins Circumstances were different from most we see in this forum

 

Para 53 in the judgement makes interesting reading and I think the Rankings case was about avoidance and involved the OC....Rankings instigated the proceedings.......

 

Also in para 16 quoted by Marlin it states that " sufficient information was produced during proceedings to comply" I take this to mean the CCA produced....maybe someone could find out?

 

This is a DCA who have bought the debt and therefore must comply to the terms and conidtions of the original agreement...I am not sure but I believe thats the law..

 

This means they need to produce the agreement which needs to be executed in line with the CCA in order for the court to enforce it otherwise its 127(3) defence time

 

That would be my argument and I would use Hurstanger and Wilson case law to back this up...

 

You need to get your ducks in a row and go for it....this is what litigations all about testing one legal argument aginst another and the judge decides

 

However.....Marlin may back down before it gets to that stage

 

Dont give up...

Edited August 20, 2008 by B3rty

[berniebobs]

Thanks to you all for your responses.

 

Im trying to keep my chin up with this lot at the mo. I will read and try to absorb it all.

[B3rty]

Just read through your thread again and forgot they had sent you the agreement.

 

You may come unstuck here as they have the agreement, correct terms and copies of default notices...only thing I can see as a glimmer is the fact that the assigment contains no reference to your account number which I think is normal because the personal details are for bulk debts however not sure how this would hold up in court........you need the advice of someone more knowledgable then me....like PT

[berniebobs]

I think the only item, im drawing back to at the moment, is the initial POC on the county court document, where it only has the DCA? I dont know, this is taking some sinking in...

[B3rty]

If you are going to challange the DOA then you need to find out what this must contain to be legal, because right now its just generic and could relate to any account.....how do they prove the right to own your debt....this could be important and I would research this area..

 

BTW...google the Marlin Europe address, its a vitrual office address in London...not a real office....

[berniebobs]

Thanks B3rty!

 

Whats your take on all this? My main worry is getting to court and having a judge who doesnt know their stuff and me getting another few thousand costs to cover Marlin...