Ind

[jazzyb]

Hi all, has anyone heard of IND? My sister inlaw has received a letter from them regarding a HSBC loan so i can only imagine they are a DC but i've never heard of them. Any ideas?

 

Jamie

[pblackie]

I am currently dealing with this lot, they work for NCO Europe. They have issued court proceedings against me despite the fact the account is in dispute with HSBC over unlawfull Bank Charges.

[jazzyb]

Ok, sent a cca request to IND last week, they have replied today saying that the dept is an overdraft and so they do not need to supply a credit agreement but they are writing to HSBC (OC) to get what information they can. My sister in law is very sure that the dept is for a loan. IND have not threatened her with any other action in this latest letter. Does she just sit tight and wait to see what they send if anything? Is it worth at this stage sending a cca request to HSBC (OC) as well?

 

Jamie

[jazzyb]

anybody have any thoughts?

[jazzyb]

Right, sister in law has now received court summons from IND. No documentation has been supplied on the back of the cca, didn't think ind are able to issue court procedings if account is in dispute! Not sure what to do next. As i said in previous post ind have said it is an overdraght and do not have to supply credit agreement...is that right? My sister in law is still insisting that it is a loan. Could HSBC have combined an oustanding loan and outstanding overdraght together and sold it on as an overdraght.

 

Any thoughts anyone

[Boro]

My thoughts on this would be to file an acknowledgment of service (you can do this on the courts website, details on the claim form) and select defend the claim in full, then send of a cpr by special delivery to ind, if they dont comply with the cpr have the case dismissed, if they do it should prove how the debt came about

[jazzyb]

Hi Boro, thanks for reply, i will do as you say in regards to defending the claim but am unsure what a cpr is and where to get it from.

 

Jamie

[Boro]

Heres my ind thread theres a cpr on there http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/134190-court-claim-recieved.html

[jazzyb]

Cheers Boro, i'll get it sent off tonight!

[jazzyb]

Ok, a bit confused, in ind's responce to the cca request they say that the money owed is connected to an overdraft and so no executed credit agreement is available, i have now looked at the summons and in the poc it clearley says that the money claimed is as a result of a default on a personal loan with the account number listed. Looks like they are trying pull the wool over our eyes! Not sure what to do next. Is it worth sending ind a letter to say that they are giving incorrect information and the the cca request is still valid with the clock ticking. Do i tell the court? I have acknowledged the summons on line.

 

Any ideas anyone

[Boro]

Dont think your alone there jazzy, someone else has experienced the same with a personal loan account, i would contact the court and ask the court to instruct them to comply, or let the clock tick and the day before your defense is due enter it based on ind's failure to comply with a cpr or cca request, sure one of the more experienced will be able to help you come up with the defense

[jazzyb]

Thanks for the reply Boro. Have been on holiday so have only just got back online. I feel i want to send the court a letter to ask them to get IND to comply. Should i wait till after the 14 days of the cpr request and in the letter can it be basic, ie can i just explain the fact that IND have said initially that it is an overdraft as a responce of my CCA and the fact that the court claim is for a personal loan. Should i include letters recieved from IND as proof. Does it need to contain legal jargon. Sorry for all the questions. If anybody has any thoughts it would be appreciated.

 

Jamie

[sillygirl1]

DONT wait - they've had enough time to comply, enter your defence as soon as possible as they will only go for judgement by default on day 28. It gives you a stronger case doing it this way instead of leaving it to the last minute.

[jazzyb]

Thanks for reply sillygirl. Have you any ideas for a defence as i am a novice. I understand what my defence will be put unsure of how to word it and what to reference it against.

[sillygirl1]

Can you scan or type in the particulars of claim you have and I will give you some advice on what to answer - I did this recently and the other side crumbled in court and their solicitor's representative got told off for not being as well prepared as the defendant.... Just stick to facts, don't quote legal stuff unless you're sure of the law and that should be it. That's the method I use.

[jazzyb]

Thanks for the reply and well done for winning in court! just shows you that DCA's are cowboys in every sence. I'll post the particulars tonight for you to have a look at.

Thanks again

[jazzyb]

Ok this is the POC from IND.

 

The Claimant claims for the sums due under a/various Credit Agreement(s) entered into between HSBC plc and the Defendant. The rights of HSBC plc passed the Claimant pursuant to an assignment dated 22/12/06 between HSBC plc and the Claimant. The agreement(s) was/were terminated upon the Defendant failure to comply with the terms of the Agreement(s) and or the statutory Notice of Default served by HSBC plc. And the claimant claims:

Personal Loan Account xxxxxx/xxxxxxxx balance of xxxx as of 30/12/04.

Interest under s69 of the County Court Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from the Default Date(s) to 5/3/08 of xxxx and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of xxx and costs.

 

So the POC are for a personal loan. When i sent a CCA request which was before the Court Claim was issued i had this responce.

 

We refer to your letter dated xxxxxx requesting information pursuant to part 18 of the Civil Procedure Rules (CPR). We respond to your request as follows:-

 

The indebtedness to which our claim relates was incurred by way of an overdraft on a current account with HSBC Bank plc (the bank). No loan agreement would have been executed. The Bank would have relied on the exemption in section 74(1)(b) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA) which applies to such facilities. In accordance with the Determination issued by the Director General of Fair Trading dated 21 December 1989, if the Bank provided the facility to you by prior arrangement, a letter would have been sent to notify you of the overdraft limit, the annual interest rate and charges(and how they could be varied), and of the fact that the facility was repayable on demand. A similar facility letter would have been sent if at any time the facility was renewed by prior arrangement with the blank. We will ask the Bank to provide us with copies of any facility letters sent to you and which are still in the Bank's possession. We will forward copies to you once they have been received.

 

As you can see they have already tried to confuse the issue by initially telling me that the money is owed on an overdraft in responce to the CCA request and on the Court Claim they are saying its a personal loan.

 

Any help with a defence would be much appreciated. I would like to bring to the attention of the court in the defence that IND have not been honest about how the money is owed. I have copied a couple of defence's that are on the site already but am not sure on which parts are relevant and which parts are not.

 

Thanks in advance

Jamie

[sillygirl1]

Ok this is the POC from IND.

 

The Claimant claims for the sums due under a/various Credit Agreement(s) entered into between HSBC plc and the Defendant. The rights of HSBC plc passed the Claimant pursuant to an assignment dated 22/12/06 between HSBC plc and the Claimant. The agreement(s) was/were terminated upon the Defendant failure to comply with the terms of the Agreement(s) and or the statutory Notice of Default served by HSBC plc. And the claimant claims:

 

Try this:

 

Despite the Claimant citing the credit agreements, assignment and statutory Notice of Default above none of these documents have been provided to the Defendant despite a CCA request sent on XXXXX

 

Personal Loan Account xxxxxx/xxxxxxxx balance of xxxx as of 30/12/04.

Interest under s69 of the County Court Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from the Default Date(s) to 5/3/08 of xxxx and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of xxx and costs.

 

The Claimant has not provided any Terms and Conditions to the Defendant in order for the claim to be substantiated - morevoer see letter XXXXX which states that the claim is for an overdraft and not a personal loan as stated above. The Claimant therefore needs to provide these Terms and Conditions to the defendant to enable them to further substantiate the right to claim these charges and costs.

 

So the POC are for a personal loan. When i sent a CCA request which was before the Court Claim was issued i had this responce.

 

We refer to your letter dated xxxxxx requesting information pursuant to part 18 of the Civil Procedure Rules (CPR). We respond to your request as follows:-

 

The indebtedness to which our claim relates was incurred by way of an overdraft on a current account with HSBC Bank plc (the bank). No loan agreement would have been executed. The Bank would have relied on the exemption in section 74(1)(b) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA) which applies to such facilities. In accordance with the Determination issued by the Director General of Fair Trading dated 21 December 1989, if the Bank provided the facility to you by prior arrangement, a letter would have been sent to notify you of the overdraft limit, the annual interest rate and charges(and how they could be varied), and of the fact that the facility was repayable on demand. A similar facility letter would have been sent if at any time the facility was renewed by prior arrangement with the blank. We will ask the Bank to provide us with copies of any facility letters sent to you and which are still in the Bank's possession. We will forward copies to you once they have been received.

 

As you can see they have already tried to confuse the issue by initially telling me that the money is owed on an overdraft in responce to the CCA request and on the Court Claim they are saying its a personal loan.

 

Any help with a defence would be much appreciated. I would like to bring to the attention of the court in the defence that IND have not been honest about how the money is owed. I have copied a couple of defence's that are on the site already but am not sure on which parts are relevant and which parts are not.

 

Thanks in advance

Jamie

 

You can also add the following:

 

Despite a CCA request being sent on XXX the claimant has failed to provided sufficient documentation to substantiate their claim on the alleged debt, and therefore the defendant is embarrassed by the lack of information to file a proper defence.

 

In view of this the Defendant asks the court for the following

 

1) Claimant to provide all documentation within 14 days

2) Costs (of £500) be awarded to the defendant if the documentation is not provided and the claim be struck out.

You should just put costs to be awarded and when asked about this state £500... for harrassment and defamation....

[jazzyb]

Hi Sillygirl, thanks so much for taking out time to help with the defence, your a star and i truly appreciate it. I have taken what you have suggested and combined it with some bits i've found on the site, i've tried not to make things too complicated but have used points that i understand. Could you possibly give it the once over and let me know what you think

 

Thanks Jamie

 

In the xxxxxx County Court

xxxxxxx

 

 

 

 

Between

xxxxxx Claimant

 

and

 

 

xxxxxx Defendant

 

 

 

Defence

1. I xxxxx xxxx am the defendant in this action and make the following statement as my defence to the claim made by FV-1 Inc

 

2. The Defendant is embarrassed in pleading to the Particulars of Claim as it stands at present, inter alia: -

3. The claimants' particulars of claims disclose no legal cause of action and they are embarrassing to the defendant as the claimant's statement of case is insufficiently particularised and does not comply or even attempt to comply with CPR part 16. In this regard I wish to draw the courts attention to the following matters;

 

a) The Particulars of Claim are vague and insufficient and do not disclose an adequate statement of facts relating to or proceeding the alleged cause of action. No particulars are offered in relation to the nature of the written agreement referred to, the method the claimant calculated any outstanding sums due,or any other matters necessary to substantiate the claimant's claim.

 

b) A copy of the purported written agreement that the claimant cites in the Particulars of Claim, and which appears to form the basis upon which these proceedings have been brought, has not been served attached to the claim form.

 

c) A copy of any evidence of both the scope and nature of any default, and proof of any amount outstanding on the alleged accounts, has not been served attached to the claim form.

4. Further to the case, on xxxx/2008 I made a request for a true copy of the Credit Agreement under the Consumer Credit Act and received a response stating that the claim is for an overdraft and not a personal loan as stated in the Court Claim. The Claimant therefore needs to provide these Terms and Conditions to the defendant to enable them to further substantiate the right to claim these charges and costs. (a copy of the request is attached to this Defence marked xx 01 and attached is a copy of IND’s response marked xx 02).

5. Further to the case, on xxxx2008 I requested the disclosure of information pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules, which is vital to this case from the claimant. The information requested amounted to copies of the Credit Agreement referred to in the particulars of claim and any default or termination notices, a transcript of all transactions, including charges, fees, interest, alleged repayments by myself and payments made by the original creditor. Also any other documents the Claimant seeks to rely on, including any default notices or termination notice, and a copy of the Notice of Assignment required to give the claimant a legitimate right of action. ( a copy of the request is attached to this Defence marked xx 03).

 

6. To Date the claimant has ignored my request under the CPR and I have not received any such documentation requested. As a result it has proven difficult to compose this defence without disclosure of the information requested, especially given that I am Litigant in Person ( a copy of the request is attached to this Defence marked xx 04).

 

6. Consequently, I deny all allegations on the particulars of claim and put the claimant to strict proof thereof.

7. In view of matters pleaded, the defendant asks the court for the following-:

a). Claimant to provide all documentation within 14 days.

b). If no documentation is received within 14 days for the claim to be struck out.

Statement of Truth

 

 

I xxxxx, believe the above statement to be true and factual

 

 

Signed ..................... *** PRINT DONT SIGN

 

Date

[sillygirl1]

Excellent, that should give their solicitors some headaches. You've done really well - I'm very proud of you.

 

If this ends up in front of a judge you should be better prepared than their 'solicitor for hire' on the day, who will only have the bare facts the night before.

 

Get this in pronto and you should hopefully be able to relax after what is a very one-sided batttle.

[jazzyb]

Thanks for having a look and thanks for the encouragent. I 'm hoping it won't get to court as its my sister in law's case and she isn't looking forward to the prospect of going to court and i can imagine that if a court date was issued she will make a offer to IND instead of trying to fight it, we will just have to wait and see. Anyway have posted the defence today (recorded) and will sit back and see what accurs. I will let you know if i hear anything.

 

Thanks again, and have a good weekend

 

Jamie.

[jazzyb]

Quick update and question. Sent off Defence and had a response from the court saying that they are giving ind 28 days to produce some paperwork even though they are the one's who instigated the court claim! Have not recieved anything yet but have checked the status of the claim online and it has been moved to our local court, would this mean that the court have received something from ind and it has now been allocated a court for a hearing or is it just part of the process that takes place whether they have received paperwork or not.

 

Thanks

[jazzyb]

Anybody have any ideas on the above post?

 

Thanks

[jazzyb]

Have received a Allocation Questionaire today but no other documentation to prove the dept. If ind have sent something in doesn't the court have to pass it onto the defendant. Am quite confused as to whether this will go to court. My sister in law is going to phone the court today to see if there is any paperwork that is due to be sent to her.

If a questionaire has been sent out does anybody know whether that would mean ind have provided proof of the dept.

 

Thanks

[jazzyb]

Hi all, I am just filling out allocation questionaire and was wondering for the part of the questionaire where it says give information that may help the judge to clarify the claim, including information that should be supplied by the other party, is it worth outlining what has happened so far.....IND saying that it was a overdraft and so a CCA request doesn't cover it, then making a court claim and claiming it was for a personnel loan and not responding to an information request. Does anyone think this might influence the judge in throwing out the case. Hope someone has a view on this as i have got to send it off tomorrow.

 

Thanks Jamie