problems at work-

[rainbow99]

need some advice. im facing a discplinary at work and i have had no previous warning about these issues prior to this. when i first started i never had a 90 day review so never got signed up and no pay rise i was forgotten. then after 8 months i complained and they put mine up but would only backdate it for 3 months. then i have had no tarining until latest manager came and still have only been on on a training course and ive been there nearly two years. for three months they paid me wrong amount due to changing in contract so had to complain again and it was sorted. my assistant boss is a nightmare a lot of customers dislike him and he doelsnt like me he is always putitng me down and belittling me on a few occasions has shouted in front of customers. my boss once said to me that girls are a lot strogner and dont ask nicely he was basically saying because im a girl i dont ask guys we just tell them to do it which is very sexist. then i was really poorly in summer and found out i was pregant and had had a partial miscarriage. i was devasted so i had to have operation. and next day after having anesthetic i came back to work because im dedacated and didnt want to let them down because i had been signed off for fie days and didnt want disciplinary. I had stayed to work over the summer to help THEM out and after miscarriage and op my boss put me on pefrpamce plan i wnated to curl up and die i felt so bad. and they didnt pay me my full time wages for three months and so had part time and that paid my rent and phone bill and i had 20 a week to live off i was starving and then they had a go at me for being scruffy but it wasnt my fault i couldbt even afford ne wtights or a haircut! then few weeks ago out of the blue my boss says on saturday night hes reducing my hours to fit new part timers and yet i had been contracted to work those hours and i desperately needed money so i went mad and rang head of hr and my boss had to grovel and reinstate me. and now this displinary its like how else can they hurt me. i lost holiday last year and this year have haed to fight to get THREE weeks i was owed. trouble is i loved my job but after all these things and losing my child its no wonder im making mistakes and unhappy there. and ive got a full time degree i dying father helath issues stemming from the summer ive had loads of tests done could be anemic or worse because im so tired and im totally stressed. i need some advice is it because im part time and a student? or what any ideas on how to go about this.

[Ell-enn]

Hi there, I'm sorry to hear you are in this upsetting situation.

 

From what you say it looks like your employers are not following statutory disciplinary procedures, but I will need a few more details to clarify. What reason are they giving for disciplinary action? Have you received a letter detailing the reason for disciplinary action and confirming you have the right to be accompanied at the meeting?

 

It also sounds as if you have grounds for bringing a grievance against your line manager for the way you have been treated. This treatment could be described as discrimination and/or bullying.

 

I have to go out to pick someone up but if you can give some more details I will reply again in he morning.

 

Kind Regards

 

Ell-enn

[Dons2008]

Hi Rainbow

 

Wow you certainly have been through the mill.. You deserve a medal for what you've gone through

 

OK from what I can see you look like you have a good case for bullying and/or discrimination or even sexual harassment.. According to Employment law and ACAS guidelines, you should have received a letter detailing why you are being brought to a disciplinary hearing, and the date, time and place, and also the fact that you are entitled to be accompanied by a colleague of your choice or an accredited Trade Union official... Do you have this?

 

You should collect all evidence to back yourself up at the hearing - ie, statements from any colleagues who heard the comments made to you, dates and times of incidents; Sickness notes/letters/appointment cards from your GP/Hospital... Payslips showing Holiday deductions/payments etc... Any letter informing you of changes to your contracts - and of course new contracts that may have superceded your old contract and reflected the changes made (for your hours reduction).. If you have these, then your next move would be to raise a grievance as Ell-enn said above. Your employer has to deal with your grievance in line with their procedures outlined in your contract so be sure to read up on that and seek advice from C.A.B. also to make sure everything is being done correctly by your employer.

 

Keep a written record of everything that happens, in a numbered/bulleted format (as this may form the basis of a witness statement you would rely on if this should escalate to a Tribunal - hopefully it will not, but it's best to have everything in writing so that you can keep on top of things esp. with C.A.B.)

 

A friend of a friend was being racially and sexually harassed by a senior male colleague in a blue chip consualtancy company here in London and she kept a note of every incident/remark/person witnessing everything - the evidence she had prior to her disciplinary hearing (for poor performance - related to the harassment she suffered) was insurmountable and she walked away in November with 3 months' severance pay and a good reference.

 

So do not give up, I hope some of the info is of some help to you.. You have come this far and I hope things turn out ok for you..

 

Keep posting your progress

 

Dons2008

x

[rainbow99]

yes i did get letter finally yesterday which i had to go pick up from store. i made to mistakes 14/12 by not taking money for something i ran through and then once on 29th when i left till open a bit while dealing with a customer. the problem is i know others are making mistakes but they have decided because i wrk frida and satyrday en though new staff have stared who work then im the one whos at fault when i know others have used my code and till. im not sayin i didnt commit because it was human error but i feel i have overwhelimg mitigating cirmunstances.

 

the worst thing is im leaving in summer when i finsh so 5 months is not really worth them doing it! i had a bad time i was ill so dodnt know i was pregant so was a shock and then the father broke up with me and didnt come see me for three weeks because work didnt pay me i had no money to eat properly. my hormones were aall over the place i couldnt go home and see my family because of work so i was pregant and scared and alone and was very sick with morning sickness one time my housemate had to call and ambulance.

 

since then ive been slowly trying to come to terms with my ordeal but it takes time. and then my manager eally didnt help things by saying stuff about how girls are more forcefull and sayin i should make more effort with a meber of staff when i was! after he cut hours down and i got him to reinstate them i told him all this so i thought he would understand. ever since then ive felt very senstive and my confidence is in bits. so them constantly criticise me has made things worse. i thoughtn the company would have been more understanding but they werent. problem is lot of what my manager has said is between us only. but he hasnt realised his comments have hurt me a great deal.

 

i think he has got wrong end of stick of me i am the most caring person i have looked after my dyin father since i was ten years old! the other day i watched a programme on palestine for my class and i sat and criied at the children int he refugee camp. at work i ahve had to be strong because of the awful cusotmers we have to deal with and also because of the people i work with. and my manager has a go at me for bing strong and a bit short with people but its because after being there for so long the staff keep doing same things and not tiding up after themselves and im tired of having to do same thin every day and im sick if bein abused by customers so havent dealt with them as well as i sued to but is it surprising. i come in i work so hard and then know it and im one in major truble it beggers belief really. thanks for your comments i know what i need to say for disciplinary but i am definatley going to try and take it further

 

i am not in trade union and also theres no meber of staff i can ask really so im on own been trying to contact hr all day without getting through its answermachne as i wanted to talk to them.

[Allwood]

Is it a large store that you work for? I have been working in a large store since I retired and I have them to be the most awful employers, the managers do not know how to manager and the discrimination is rife there as well. The store has got a good reputation which is laughable. The particular discriminate against elderly workers because they want them to be there all the time. will not give holidays despite giving amble notice, the store wants written proof whey you need to that your holidays.

[Dons2008]

Rainbow99 -

 

PM'd u.

[demon_x_slash]

Just a general note - please try and keep advice on-thread, rather than resorting to PMs. Not only can the advice given help someone else, but incorrect advice can be picked up on by others and corrected. Be very wary of accepting advice by PM, and if you're not sure, feel free to ask.

[Dons2008]

I PM'd her regarding the more sensitive side of her situation (sorry if I caused offence I thought some things were better said between girls)

[Allwood]

I should have said that I have had to join a union because of the appalling way the manager were about holiday leave the want staff to book their holidays 2 years in advance????

 

Union has not done much for me so far as the store is not unionized but if you have to go to an industrial tribunal then hopefully the union will help with that.

 

Also bear in mind that stores are not doing too well at the moment and the best way to make savings is to get rid of staff. It will be difficult year for them in 2008.

[Allwood]

Dons2008 - how do you know it is a girl (woman) at the end of the name that is being used by Rainbow99??

[Dons2008]

Allwood - if you re-read the original post Rainbow99 mentioned pregnancy.

[demon_x_slash]

No, no offence, Donswood - it's the standard warning people give out when 'PM sent' or the like appears in a thread

[Dons2008]

That's ok - none taken (I have skin like a Rhino!!!) Rainbow sounds like she's been through the mill and I thought I would give her some 'girly' support and words of encouragement (I am a caring Piscean )

[Allwood]

sorry re-read post and indeed Riinbow is indeed a woman:cool:

[rainbow99]

i really appreciate your support! i am a bit annoyed because number for hr keeps going to answerphone and i needed to talk to someone. typical really lol. i needed to sound things out as i have no idea of employment law and if i want to put in a grievance i needed to work put if they have broke any. i understand what i need to do for meeting but its appeal and grievance that im unsure of. I want to stand up for myself and show i am capable of defending myself and showin i cant be pushed around. after what i have said does anyone think i should take this further and do the know process and what i have to do as its company as a whole that ahve let me dpwn from beginning NOT just manager or line manager this is whole company.

[Allwood]

Rainbow you will need to keep a diary of events times places and what was said for the grievance procedure, everything something happens write it down with the time and date.

 

All you need to do is to write to the personnel manager and with everything that has happened and you will be invited for an interview it would be good if you can get someone to attend that interview with you. As the company will no doubt have someone making notes for them and they can be very selective what is taken down.

 

Good luck

[rainbow99]

thanks for ur advice. i have to first have this disciplinary meeting friday which im not happy about as if i havent got enough on my plate! im on verge of failing uni because im having to try sort this mess out. not good. do you think i have a good case though as it seems from the beginning i have had one problem after another. i have never been in any trouble in my life and never worked for a company where i have had such much stress and trouble! i havent been happy for some time because of all these issues and they wonder why im not perfroming. i started to dread going to work because i was unahppy with the way i had been treated. its prob not al there fault but after everything that has happened you would start to feel like you have been treated unfairly and this owuld mae ypu angry. dont know anyone who has had as much hassle as i have. problem is i would have quit a lon time ago but im stuck because i need the money while im at uni and i cant afford to quit.

[demon_x_slash]

Yes, you do have a case.

 

Firstly though, make sure that you have another member of staff to sit with you in this disciplinary meeting. This is your right; don't let them tell you otherwise. You and/or they are allowed to take notes, and to see any evidence that they intend to use against you.

 

To start the grievance process, all you need to do is to put your concerns, and the way you've been treated, into a letter, and hand it to your HR manager. If you wanted to write the letter and post it up on here for cleaning up, you're more than welcome.

 

The above is just general advice; we have a few very good resident experts on here who will no doubt come along and take a look

[Allwood]

Is it a big organisation that you work for or just a small one retail outlet;)

[rainbow99]

problem is i dont have anyone who works for company to ask. i am not too worried because end of day this is is my first offence but they have more to be worried if they sack me or i get in a lot of trouble as i would definatly take it further. so tomorrow i am going to state mitigatin cirmustances i mean i am not denying it happened i can only be honest. what points in this would i need to include when im in disciplinary and what points in grievance? the company has failed me from when i first started so i feel i have a good case.

[Dons2008]

Hi Rainbow99 hope you're ok today

 

As you are going through the hearing, the person chairing the hearing will read out any allegations made against you and ask you if you understand.. They should take you through the allegations - one by one - saying that on X-day you did X and Y.. and talk you through the rest of the procedure.

 

You should be given a chance to answer to each allegation and explain how the incident happened, and admit or deny the allegation. There will normally be somebody from HR there taking notes (these should come out to you as minutes of the meeting at a later date) The points you would expect to be addressed in the disciplinary are the points they have made you aware of, these being your minor errors which you touched on the other day.

 

In your grievance letter, you should outline exactly as Demon x Slash has stated, ie, whats happened, how you were treated and they should write you an acknowledgement letter and invite you to a meeting to address your grievance. You need to check your contract to see what the procedure is regarding this, and also try to get an urgent appointment with the C.A.B. to get the contract checked out and make sure your employer is acting within the guidelines laid down.

 

Apart from that, I would ask anybody at all in the company - even if you may not be friendly with them, doesn't matter, just get somebody in there with you... in capacity as a witness, this way if there is any attempt of a cover-up or to back you into a corner (as I mentioned before) you have a witness to verify you.

 

You definitely have a good case, I hope any of the above helps.

 

Dons xxx

[Allwood]

As mentioned try and get someone to be with you at the interview, I know big retailers take note at these meeting and also get you to sign the note that they have taken, if this should be case, read the note very carefully before you sign them (I feel that this is an unfair practice as they can be very selective with notes that are taken) also asked for a copy of the notes. I worked for a big retailer and they do this although I have protested and said that I was not going to sign anything the pressure was applied and in the end I sign them but I did read them first and also got a copy.

 

However I have put in grievance due to them discriminating against me because of my age and I wanted to change my hours for safety reason. This took so long for them to get back to I therefore took the hrs that was good for me and put it in writing giving them the chance either to pay for a taxi home for me every night and if not I was going to taken the hrs as stated in my letter to them.

 

I knew if the sacked me I would take them to an industrial tribunal, as they were totally out of order.

 

a couple of weeks later the hrs that was necessary for me was reluctantly was sanctioned.

 

Also I have another grievance ready to be heard because I was given my annual leave despite giving plenty of notice.

 

I am calling shots but they will keep getting at me, but I am aware what they are doing because retails sales are not good and the outlook for 2008 is very bad so the more staff they get rid of the better, they will have fight on their hand with me.

 

Also I have joined a union which is good because employers know that they can get away with bad practices as it is very difficult to take a care to the tribunal without any support.:-|

[demon_x_slash]

Retail and pressure-selling jobs can be the worst. I myself was pressured out of my job a few years ago (a job I loved and had been there for years). New manager, thought he'd 'make his mark', made life hell for everyone, and there were resignations in droves. I'm clued up on employment law, and even I didn't submit a grievance - it was just too much being sick in the mornings before work and at lunchtimes, getting stomach pains, headaches, dizziness, tears, etc. - it's affected how I view the workplace, and even now I struggle to view working full stop as something positive. It took a long time for the misery to turn into full-blown righteous anger, and unfortunately it wasn't soon enough for me to continue in the job. Partially happy ending, though, he left the company soon after the area manager had a word in his ear about all the resignations.

 

I'm just trying to say that it's difficult to bear up under that sort of pressure, especially with all your medical problems on the side, rainbow, and nobody will look askance if you decide not to take it any further and look for a new job - but if you don't submit a grievance, in my experience you will deeply regret it in years to come, feeling that you let the bully 'get away with it'. I consider myself a no-nonsense, strong person, and the effect of the bullying really shook my confidence in myself as that strong person, and I still haven't completely recovered it. Perhaps if I had taken things further instead of resigning, I would be in a better place with my life right now.

 

Just my experience, hope it helps.

[Allwood]

I agree you would want to be well to be able to deal with incompetent employers when you are not well. I have heard that it is better to leave an employer than to stay when they are out to get rid of you anyway. So look for another job and leave in good terms if you can as they can make life difficult afterward because you will a reference from them.

 

Employers do not like being taken to task so be prepared for that as well. The power goes to some ignorant manager heads and they can make life difficult as well.

[rainbow99]

im supposed to be staring at 8am and meeting is at half ten do i ahave to start work at 8 like normal. tried to call manager but he didnt get back to me. doesnt say on letter. i am oing to fight this on principle. every time they have ****ed me over ive managed to win in the end. its fursttrating that everything has had to be a fight over every tiny little thing. And half time they say one thing and act another so i dont know whether im coming or going. ive been tying to read upa s much on employment laws as i can so i can appeal/put in a grievance. if it was you would you feel like your being discrimated against because i have felt like for a long n time. im trying to work out what it is is it because im part time or a girl or what i cant quite figure it out. for weeks now my bosses even started just writing my figures in book instead of having proper review like all other part time and full timers. only last week they did a proper one again. we are all ALL STAFF PART TIMERs And i was there year and a half and had contracted hours and two part timers and instead of fititng them in with my hours he tried to cut mine don claiming needs of buisness but previous boss of our store and before knew i was a student and was fine. Last xmas my best mate got me a litle time off during xmas but this xmas i wasnt allowed as i was told no one inc mapny can take it bewtween nov and feb and i found our other day by head of hr that SALES people like me can take it in janurary but our bosses never told us that.