Bog vs Barlcaycard

[Bog]

Hi all,

 

Thanks to the info on this site, I have successfully reclaimed £5000+ in bank charges from First Direct and I am now going after Barclaycard for PPI.

 

I opened my Barclaycard account in 1993 and according to them PPI was applied in 1994 after a telesales call, of which I have no recollection. I never received any PPI correspondence or T&C’s then or since.

 

I wrote to them in November requesting a refund of the premiums and I got the basic fob of letter saying PPI was added at my request.

 

I have sent a CCA and S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to them and they have sent a copy of my original credit agreement and copies of my statements going back to 2002. They sent no telephone call transcripts and the last line of the letter states that this is all of the information that they hold on my account.

 

The CA clearly shows that I did not tick the PPI cover box in 1993!

 

I’m about to post them my LBA and a schedule of charges (totalling £2050), but I have a few questions.

 

1. Do you think I have a case for mis-selling? They clearly added the PPI without my permission.

 

2. Should I include/add contractual interest and at what rate? Is the norm. 8%?

 

3. Can I claim beyond 6 years i.e. all the way back to 1994?

 

4. Should I believe that they have supplied all of my data and that they do not have telephone transcripts? Can they produce them at a later date (i.e. Court) despite the letter stating that the statements and CA is the only data they hold on me?

 

5. Should I go down the court route or to the FOS first?

 

Looking forward to your help and any other advice you may be able to give.

[hellhasnofury]

Hi all,

 

Thanks to the info on this site, I have successfully reclaimed £5000+ in bank charges from First Direct and I am now going after Barclaycard for PPI.

 

I opened my Barclaycard account in 1993 and according to them PPI was applied in 1994 after a telesales call, of which I have no recollection. I never received any PPI correspondence or T&C’s then or since.

 

I wrote to them in November requesting a refund of the premiums and I got the basic fob of letter saying PPI was added at my request.

 

I have sent a CCA and S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to them and they have sent a copy of my original credit agreement and copies of my statements going back to 2002. They sent no telephone call transcripts and the last line of the letter states that this is all of the information that they hold on my account.

 

The CA clearly shows that I did not tick the PPI cover box in 1993!

 

I’m about to post them my LBA and a schedule of charges (totalling £2050), but I have a few questions.

 

1. Do you think I have a case for mis-selling? They clearly added the PPI without my permission. YES

 

2. Should I include/add contractual interest and at what rate? Is the norm. 8%?YES. I personally would ask for the contractual rate they charged you first.

3. Can I claim beyond 6 years i.e. all the way back to 1994?Yes

4. Should I believe that they have supplied all of my data and that they do not have telephone transcripts? Can they produce them at a later date (i.e. Court) despite the letter stating that the statements and CA is the only data they hold on me? They should produce all information regarding anything they hold about you. Especially the telphone recording/transcripts. They cannot not comply with your legal dpa request and then produce them in court. That would be rather misleading.

 

5. Should I go down the court route or to the FOS first? If the card was taken out in 1993, the fos may not consider it for investigation, but a phone call to them, may give you further advice.

 

Looking forward to your help and any other advice you may be able to give.

 

Welcome to the forum, I have posted a few comments above.

[Bog]

Thanks for the response hellhasnofury, I'll keep everyone informed on my progress.

 

Regarding point 4, if they claim they don't have statements going back to 1993, how do I work out what they owe me - or is that their job.

 

Cheers,

[Bog]

A bit of an update....

 

Apologies for the length of this post, but I thought it would be usefull for other members to see the letters.

 

Anyway sent Barclaycard my LBA including a gentle reminder that they had not yet fully complied with my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request), they only sent statements, nothing else . Yesterday I received the following fob off letter claiming to be thier final response....

 

 

 

Dear Mr .........

 

I write further to the letter you received in relation to the Payment Protection on your Barclaycard account.

I am sorry we have been unable to resolve this matter to your satisfaction. I have reviewed your complaint and detail my findings below.

 

Our Understanding of your Complaint

 

You believe that Payment Protection Insurance (PPI) was added to your account without your knowledge; you now wish to have all the policy charges refunded.

 

Background to the events leading to your complaint:

 

Payment Protection was added to your account on 26th September 1994. (No transcript of alledged sales call provided by Barclaycard yet.) A policy document was sent to you when the account was registered for PPI. The policy document also advised that there was a 30-day cooling-off period in which you could have cancelled the policy if you decided it was not suitable for your needs. (Never receivied by me - Prove it Barclaycard by complying with the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request). )

 

You then cancelled this policy in August 2007, and have now decided to request a refund of the policy premiums.

 

What we have done to resolve your complaint:

 

Your policy schedule, detailing the benefits and exclusions oft he cover was sent to your home address and included within the schedule was your right to cancel the policy. (Never receivied by me - Prove it Barclaycard by complying with the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)). This advises that the policy can be cancelled at any time, and if cancelled within 30 days of the cover commencing any premiums paid are refundable.

 

The policy schedule was sent to you detailing the full product information enabling you to make an informed decision. The premiums which you then paid were to provide insurance for Life, Accident, Sickness and Involuntary Unemployment. I regret that I am unable to offer a refund of the premiums you have paid as you have received insurance cover during this time for all of the above.

 

Summary of our Internal Investigation:

 

Your policy schedule, detailing the benefits and exclusions of the cover was sent to your home address and included within the schedule was your right to cancel the policy. This advised that the policy could be cancelled at any time, and if cancelled within 30 days of the cover commencing any premiums paid were refundable. (Cut & Paste of previous section!)

 

The policy schedule was sent to you detailing the full product information enabling you to make an informed decision. The premiums which you then paid were to provide insurance for Life, Accident, Sickness and Involuntary Unemployment. I regret that I am unable to offer a refund of the premiums you have paid as you have received insurance cover during this time for all of the above. (Cut & Paste of previous section!)

 

PPI was shown on each statement and communication should have been made to Barclaycard in order to rectify this if you no longer wanted the policy. In the circumstances therefore, you have failed to comply with the "Conditions of Use" which you agreed to when opening your account. (What does this mean? The T&C to Barclaycard or the PPI which I never received?)

 

Therefore, I do not agree that this policy was mis-sold or misrepresented, or that you were unaware the PPI was being charged to your account, and as such I am not prepared to refund any of the premiums charged.

 

I am sorry this is not the outcome you wanted, however, I hope my explanation is helpful. For the purposes of the Financial Ombudsman Service you may regard this letter as our "Final Response" to your complaint. You will find more information about the Financial Ombudsman Service in the

enclosed leaflet. Please note you have six months from the date of this letter to refer to the Financial Ombudsman Service for investigation.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Matthew Thompson

Customer Relationship Manager

 

Enc; Financial Ombudsman Service — "Explanatory Leaflet".

 

 

Am I right in saying this is a fairly standard response?

 

How should I play this now? Should I send them another letter highlighting the fact I never received any policy documents, before putting a court claim in?

 

Also, they have still not complied fully with the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request, the deadline was Monday 21/01/2008 (which included 2 extra days for xmas!). I sent them the following letter on Tuesday 22/01/2008.....

 

 

Data Protection Controller

Barclaycard House

Pavillion Drive

Northampton

NN4 1SG

 

22nd January 2008

 

 

 

 

Section 7 – Data Protection Act 1998 - LETTER BEFORE ACTION

 

Re: Account 4929 .... .... .... ....

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I am in receipt of the documents that you have supplied in response to my Data Protection Act information request dated 7th December 2007. Further to my reminder to you in my letter dated 11th January 2008, the disclosure of my personal data is still incomplete in that at least the following documents are missing:

 

You have failed to provide copies of all documents which include any of my personal information including copies of any contacts or invoices, emails or computer records containing my personal information, or any records which pertain to this information.

 

You not provided full copies or transcripts of any correspondence in postal, email or any other format which you have entered into with any individual, organization or third party which contains my personal or financial, or which pertains to me.

 

Where any previous information or records held have been deleted or disposed of, you have not provided the methods used to do so, including dates, certificates or references confirming details of destruction. If you are unable to provide such certificates, you have not provided a declaration, signed by an authorised officer of your company, confirming the dates and methods of destruction of this data.

 

Nor have you supplied me, in full, hard copy print outs of my personal or financial information, held in a digital, magnetic or any other format which is held in any archives, backups or other storage devices / locations.

 

 

This is not an exhaustive list by any means, it is just an example of some of the information I am missing.

 

Accordingly, I have to tell you that you have not yet complied with your obligations under the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

The time for compliance with my request has now expired (40 Calendar days). If you do not comply fully with my Subject Access Request within 7 days, I shall apply to the County Court for an order to enforce compliance, together with damages at the discretion of the court. I will also inform the Information Commissioner of your breach.

 

If you do not understand the implications of this letter, you should immediately forward it to the person within your organisation who does and is responsible for data protection.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in the first instance of receipt.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

What I really want from them is copies of the alledged correspondance relating to the PPI and the transcript from the supposed sales call.

 

I am more than happy to go to court over thier failure to comply with the Data Protection act, but I do have concerns going to court about the PPI, only for Barclaycard to produce correspondance/transcripts in court.

 

I know proof of postage is not proof of receipt, but how would the judge see this?

 

I look forward to your help???

[alanfromderby]

If you don't feel you have enough evidence to issue the PPI claim, then you would need to push the DPA matter first. You can launch a county court claim to force compliance - otherwise you could give the ICO a ring and see if they will intervene.

[Bog]

Finally got all (or so they say) of my data from BC, it took a while - a couple of letters and phone calls. I got loads of computer screen prints, marketing files etc, but nothing relating to PPI.

 

So, today I rang Barclay's Radbrook Hall' (This is apparently their main Data Protection office! - Tel 01565 614000) and spoke to a very helpfull chap who told me that BC do not keep telephone transcripts for longer than 30 days (For un-secured loans and cards) and letters are kept for 7 years. He said, if I did not get any thing relating to PPI, it's because it does not exist!!

 

So in light of this and the fact BC have no proof they legitimatly applied the PPI to my account, is it worth writing to Mathew Thompson to re-consider his position?

 

Also, if I did take them to court and they did somehow produce evidence, which in turn meant I lost my case, could I then make a court claim in relation to the Data Protection Act and their non disclosure of said evidence, for the full PPI amount? As this would in effect be my actual loss due to their non complience - if you get what I mean .

[slick132]

Hi Bog,

 

Do you have any figures relating to the amounts of PPI applied to your a/c over the claim period.

 

We simply can't believe what they say about not having info - time and again, they've shown they only supply info when forced to do so by SAR and even court action.

 

It's unlikely you will lose a case by BC producing documents later on - they are likely to settle before any court case, or they'll not defend the case in court.

[Bog]

Hi Bog,

 

Do you have any figures relating to the amounts of PPI applied to your a/c over the claim period.

 

.

 

Yes, it's in the region of £2050.

[slick132]

In which case, I'd assume you would now go ahead with quantifying your claim and sending the Prelim and LBA.

 

I think this thread may have been in the PPI forum and came to BC charges forum when there was a reshuffle 2 weeks back.

 

I'll get it put back in PPI where you'll get the right help and advice on how to proceed from here.

[elsinore]

Thread moved:)

[Carriep]

Hi,

 

I work for a BBC1 consumer affairs programme called "Don't Get Done, Get Dom", in which presenter Dominic Littlewood attempts to resolve issues that have arisen between consumers and companies.

 

Having read your story, we would be extremely keen to hear from you to see if there is anything we might be able to do to help.

 

If you would like to talk to us, please get in touch at:

 

[email protected]

0207 731 6868

 

Thanks very much,

 

Robert Gershinson

Don’t Get Done, Get Dom (BBC1)

[Bog]

Thought I'd give a bit of an update and ask some advice.

 

Basically, after sending my LBA and BC saying 'no' to a refund of the PPI and BC NOT being able to supply a copy of my credit agreement, I wrote to them stating that the account is clearly in dispute based on the above two points.

 

They ignored my letter and I have subsequently stopped paying them.

The have now defaulted the account and have set Mercers on me, despite not being legally allowed to do this whilst an account is in dispute.

 

I have written to them again telling them to stop Mercers harassing me (well they ring 2-3 times a day, but I ignore them and log the calls) and again they have ignored me.

 

I did start to write to BC again, but thought it would be a waste of time as they would probably ignore it anyway.

 

So I'm now contemplating my next move, I think I have 3 options.

 

1. Continue to ignore their attempts to recover their perceived debt and let them take me to court, then counter claim for my PPI refund, their breach of the Data Protection Act, OFT guidelines etc, Harassment and request removal of the default.

 

3. Initiate a claim myself for the above through MCO.

 

2. Report them to the FSA, OFT & DP Commissioner and any other authority I can think of.

 

I know there are lots of issues wrapped up in here, but I confident I will beat them - it's what to do next.

 

What do you guys think?

[hellhasnofury]

Thought I'd give a bit of an update and ask some advice.

 

Basically, after sending my LBA and BC saying 'no' to a refund of the PPI and BC being able to supply a copy of my credit agreement, I wrote to them stating that the account is clearly in dispute based on the above two points.

 

They ignored my letter and I have subsequently stopped paying them.

The have now defaulted the account and have set Mercers on me, despite not being legally allowed to do this whilst an account is in dispute.

 

I have written to them again telling them to stop Mercers harassing me (well they ring 2-3 times a day, but I ignore them and log the calls) and again they have ignored me.

 

I did start to write to BC again, but thought it would be a waste of time as they would probably ignore it anyway.

 

So I'm now contemplating my next move, I think I have 3 options.

 

1. Continue to ignore their attempts to recover their perceived debt and let them take me to court, then counter claim for my PPI refund, their breach of the Data Protection Act, OFT guidelines etc, Harassment and request removal of the default.

 

3. Initiate a claim myself for the above through MCO.

 

2. Report them to the FSA, OFT & DP Commissioner and any other authority I can think of.

 

I know there are lots of issues wrapped up in here, but I confident I will beat them - it's what to do next.

 

What do you guys think?

 

Hello Bog,

 

I would certainly be writing to BC and Mercers and keeping up a paper trail for harassment. I would be asking them to remove the default as this is a breach of the dpa.;-)

 

Have Mercers been instructed to pursue you for the alleged debt:rolleyes: or has it been assigned to them.

 

I would be sending Mercers a request for a true copy of the ca under section 77/78 of the cca and see what they come up with.

 

As regards the court, as you have stated if they dare to issue a summons, (bet 50p they don't) you can always defend it on the basis of no credit agreement. Then issue a counterclaim for the ppi, breaches of the cca and the dpa.

 

If you decide to instigate legal proceedings for the recovery of your ppi and removal of the default and compensation for harassment. Please use the old-fashioned way, issue a N1 (you will find it in the bank template letters). You can use as much wordage as you like, MCOL is very limited and you may not cover all the basis with the claim.

 

Keep us posted:-D

 

Keep all correspondence in a file for later if needed.

[hellhasnofury]

:o :o Oops nearly forgot report them to the FSA, OFT and Trading Standards. They deserve it the bullies:lol:

[Bog]

:o :o Oops nearly forgot report them to the FSA, OFT and Trading Standards. They deserve it the bullies:lol:

 

I've decided to do that whilst on the tube home tonight - I'm feed up with playing nicely

 

Thanks for the advice Hellhasnofury, your right I will send them another letter and I will make it clear to them that I have/will be reporting them to various authorities.

 

Mercer's are part of Barclaycard as far as I'm aware, but do their best to prentend otherwise. They always use the same number, so they are easily ignored:grin: .

[Bog]

I think I've got them!

 

It's amazing what you notice when you read things again.....

 

In BC's last letter, they say (Quote) ' The prescribed finacial information (I assume they mean terms) together with with the full T&C's were set out on the reverse or otherwise incorporated into the application form and were specifically refered to in the credtit agreement section which contains your signature'

 

Note the use of the word 'or' - they don't actually know! They have not sent the other side of the application form, presumably because they did not scan it at the time as it was just standard leaflet with sales blurb saying sign up now etc.

 

Also, as you can see the credtit agreement section (pics in this post http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/132464-barclaycard-enforcable-credit-agrreement.html) only saysthat a credit search will be done etc. - no prescribed terms!

 

It's been 2 weeks since my formal complaint letter and still no response!

 

I have however, have sent details of my complaint to the FOS, FSA, ICO (done online) and Northampton Trading Standards asking them to investigate. OFT letter going tomorrow

 

Boy, am I up for the fight!

[papadak]

Hi there,

 

I read your postings with interest. I am about trying to reclaim PPI from B/card and also received the 'fob off' final response mumble. So before my next move I am keen to find out if anyone on this forum has been successful in getting ppi back?

 

Keep up the good work and power to the consumer! ...

[slick132]

Hi Papadak,

 

This is from the stickies at the top of the PPI forum - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/payment-protection-insurance-ppi/88004-ppi-successes.html

[Bog]

Hmmm.

 

I've got a response today, a letter apologising for the delay in responding, but they are still reviewing my case!

 

Good or bad news? I've not decided yet

[Bog]

Update:

 

I finally got a response to my formal complaint letter from these idiots! After months of writing to them and escalating the complaint, they send a basic computer generated final response letter and another FOS leaflet! (I must have about 10 of them from BC lol).

 

They have subsequently sent a formal demand for payment of the account and threatened to take me to court!

 

BRING IT ON YOU BARCLAYCARD IDIOTS!

 

Seriously, I'm just debating what to do now - I doubt they will take me to court, so I will take them!

 

I think I will claim for the PPI first and then when that's done get them for harassment and get the defaults removed for the un-enforceable credit application (which they seen to think is a credit agreement)

 

Or should I do both in one big case?

[Bog]

The response from Barclaycard that I mention in the above post, was received over a month ago, and I have not corresponded with them since, yet I received another letter from them yesterday! They saying they have nothing more to add to their final response and if I'm still un-happy, I should complain to the FOS.

 

How strange!!! Their letter is dated 26/07/08, 2 days after my above post!

 

I doubt this is a coincidence, I can only assume the following.......

 

Barclaycard monitor this forum!

 

They seem very keen for me to pursue this with the FOS

 

 

 

.

[slick132]

Hi Bog,

 

We know that many banks, DCA's, Wheel Clampers and legal Co.s follow our forums.

 

There have been cases where Screen Shots of individual's posts have been produced by Co.s to strengthen their case.

 

Whether the timing for your case here is coincidence or not, members should always remember this is a public forum and they should say nothing which could compromise their claim or case.

[Bog]

It just gets better and better.....

 

Barclaycard have sold the account to a debt collection company despite impending court action (N1 Filed), despite the account being in dispute and despite the fact they do not have a properly executed credit agreement!

 

Why do they insist on digging bigger holes for themselves??

 

Just wrote a nice letter to the Debt Collectors informing them they have been stitched up by BC and have been sold a debt they can't legally enforce .

 

BTW don't report BC to Northampton Trading Standards! I called to chase my complaint and was told in not so many words they do not tend to pursue complaints about BC as the are a major employer in the Northampton area .

[slick132]

Can you confirm exactly what TS said about this please.

[Bog]

Finally some progress.......

 

About 3 weeks ago I got a letter from a DCA claiming they had bought the debt from Barclaycard

 

I wrote to them (Special Delivery) advising them that the account is in dispute and Barclaycard had no rite to sell the account.

 

Needless to say, I did not get a response... until today! They have filled a claim on MCOL!

 

I more than willing to defend this, as I believe they don't have a leg to stand on. I have more than enough evidence that the account is in dispute and that it is being investigated by the FSA and OFT. Plus the account is un-enforcable as BC have not, dispite several requests (Including CCA and S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)), produced a true copy of the original credit agreement - so how the DCA can try to enforce it will be interesting!!

 

I'm not going to counter claim against them (except for court costs), but this DCA is breaking the law and in breach of FSA/OFT guidlines and I want them to be fined or lose their credit licence (the later is un-likley, but I'm going to try my best - just to teach them a lesson!) - I realise this will have to be pursued via the OFT / FSA, but should I make this point on my defence?