bought a car saturday afternoon no tax supplyed are you able to drive it around?

[gwc1000]

Hi Guys

Been in the car trade all my life and the main reason i would not tax a car with my trade policy is because the car would then be put in my name so if a car needs taxed then its up to the buyer to tax car Some car dealers will tell you whatever just to get the sale

Not true. With the style of registration document there is now, it is easy to tax a car for a customer using your trade policy if you know how. The vehicle doesn't ever have to be registered to you. I thought everyone in the trade knew that secret. I'm surprised DVLA haven't sussed this little wrinkle yet!

[MilkTrayMan]

...I'm surprised DVLA haven't sussed this little wrinkle yet!

We HAVE now!!!...

...lol...

[JustaSod]

Not true. With the style of registration document there is now, it is easy to tax a car for a customer using your trade policy if you know how. The vehicle doesn't ever have to be registered to you. I thought everyone in the trade knew that secret. I'm surprised DVLA haven't sussed this little wrinkle yet!

 

To be with in the law ? and would i buy a car off a man like you i think not We can all do ilegal things but then thats why true car dealers get a bad name Would you also cover a mate whos cars not insured ? i dont abuse my traders policy for anyone

[JonCris]

If a dealer (any dealer) supplies a vehicle to a customer who then drives it on a public highway when is either unroadworthy, untaxed or uninsured they are as guilty of commiting that offence as the purchaser/driver.

[MilkTrayMan]

If a dealer (any dealer) supplies a vehicle to a customer who then drives it on a public highway when is either unroadworthy, untaxed or uninsured they are as guilty of commiting that offence as the purchaser/driver.

Buyer Beware!...

[gwc1000]

To be with in the law ? and would i buy a car off a man like you i think not We can all do ilegal things but then thats why true car dealers get a bad name Would you also cover a mate whos cars not insured ? i dont abuse my traders policy for anyone

 

Please read my posts before you attack me. I said in an earlier post that I refuse to do it. I just said that it's possible to tax a vehicle without registering it, and a lot of traders do it, and I don't agree with it. My business is run completely within the law, this year I have sold in excess of 600 vehicles and have been operating for nearly thirty years and can assure you I don't have a bad name, but thanks for your concern. Who mentioned anything about insuring a mate? Considering the amount of money insurance costs me per annum I take absoloutley no chances with insurance.

[gwc1000]

If a dealer (any dealer) supplies a vehicle to a customer who then drives it on a public highway when is either unroadworthy, untaxed or uninsured they are as guilty of commiting that offence as the purchaser/driver.

Do you mean ethically or as a point of law? Are you suggesting that when I send vehicles to auction without any documentation at all that if the purchaser chooses to drive the vehicle out of the sale yard on the public highway I and/or the auction company are committing an offence? There is no legislation that insists that I have to ensure a customer is insured before they remove a car from my premises. Also what about private sales? If it is an offence to sell an untaxed or no Motd vehicle that the purchaser drives off in on the highway would you say a private individual is guilty of an offence when selling an untaxed or no MoTd vehicle that the purchaser drives home in?

[crash3903]

Ok this is not an attack on anyone

 

Selling a car without a valid V5 is unlawful. This was introduced in 2002 to assist with combating vehicle cloning, ringing and theft. I note your comment GWC1000 about the BCA (British Car Auctions) but to be honest the Police are not really that interested in large scale offences as they have other priorities that do not allow them to do so

 

You are right though about the tax GWC1000. My view is if the customer is not willing to pay for the tax when buying the car then they take the consequences after they drive it away from your forecourt

 

For the record it is not a criminal offence as it is not recordable

 

As I say this is not an attack or criticism of any members here just my 2 cents

 

Regards

 

Mark

[gwc1000]

Ok this is not an attack on anyone

 

Selling a car without a valid V5 is unlawful.

 

Sorry, but I have to disagree. I buy many vehicles from auction without a V5. In fact I have collected one today from BCA Bedford. I will fill out a V62 obtainable from your post office. On it it says:

 

You should use this form to obtain a Vehicle Registration

Certificate (V5C) if the original has been lost, stolen, defaced or

destroyed, or you have recently acquired the vehicle but did not

receive the V5C

 

If it was unlawful why would it say on the V62: or you have recently acquired the vehicle but did not

receive the V5C ?

I have never had any trouble obtaining a V5 after purchasing a vehicle without one.

I admit DVLA did start running adverts on the tv around about 2002 saying a car isn't legit without a logbook. But they soon dropped that when it was obvious that it wouldn't work.

[crash3903]

OK I agree - But then that is why I said sell not buy

 

On another note is it ok to get a number plate made up without a V5?

 

If you are in the Bedford area do you sell frontera's at about 2k?

[JustaSod]

sorry if you felt attacked was not meant like that

[gwc1000]

sorry if you felt attacked was not meant like that

No problem. No offence taken.

[MilkTrayMan]

...If you are in the Bedford area do you sell frontera's at about 2k?

What colour do U what??...

...I MAY know someone that could help U out?!...

 

NO V5 though......+ possibly slight damage to one of the doors/ignition.

 

I could negotiate a small discount for U, if U're interested enough??...

 

 

...lol...

[gwc1000]

What colour do U what??...

...I MAY know someone that could help U out?!...

 

NO V5 though......+ possibly slight damage to one of the doors/ignition.

 

I could negotiate a small discount for U, if U're interested enough??...

 

 

...lol...

 

Is that the model with keyless go?

[crash3903]

that would be the one

[JonCris]

Buyer Beware!...

 

A car dealer cannot hide behind Caveat Emptor (buyer beware) no matter what they might claim or as they sometimes say 'as seen' unless they are selling it for parts/spares which must be made clear at the time of sale.

 

In which case they must not allow the purchaser to drive off in the said vehicle after sale

[advisee]

In general, a car must be fit for purpose (whether a private or dealer sale).

 

However, if a dealer is selling a car stipulated as unroadworthy, there is no requirement for the dealer to physically prevent the motorist from leaving their premises in whatever way they choose - do you people actually live in the real world?

[patdavies]

 

Selling a car without a valid V5 is unlawful.

Mark

 

Nonsense.

 

Every time I change my car, I sell the old one without a V5. This is due to the time it takes to get the new V5 after retaining the VRM.

 

The V5 proves absolutely nothing about the vehicle's

ownership, only who is the registered keeper (who may not be the owner or the driver)

 

For the record it is not a criminal offence as it is not recordable

 

This is also nonsense. Just because the conviction is not recordable, does not remove the criminality.

 

Speeding is not recordable, but it is still a crime.

 

As a general rule, if the offence is dealt with (or would be if not FPN) in a Magistrates' Court, it is a criminal offence.

[crash3903]

The V5 proves absolutely nothing about the vehicle's

ownership, only who is the registered keeper (who may not be the owner or the driver)

Fair point - HPI checks would help when buying a car then would you recommend?

 

Every time I change my car, I sell the old one without a V5. This is due to the time it takes to get the new V5 after retaining the VRM.

 

not being able to get one in time is not relevant. How do you and your buyer fill out the tear off slips if you don't have one?

[gwc1000]

 

 

 

not being able to get one in time is not relevant. How do you and your buyer fill out the tear off slips if you don't have one?

 

You don't have to sign the tear off slips. It will not prevent the new owner getting a new reg doc. He takes the car and fills out a V62 and a new V5 comes to him in the post.

[JonCris]

In general, a car must be fit for purpose (whether a private or dealer sale).

 

However, if a dealer is selling a car stipulated as unroadworthy, there is no requirement for the dealer to physically prevent the motorist from leaving their premises in whatever way they choose - do you people actually live in the real world?

 

Yes fraid you don't

 

If a dealer allows a buyer to drive on the public highway with an unroadworthy or unlicenced vehicle that he has sold he commits the offence of conspiracy

 

If the buyer is in an accident caused by that unroadworhyness or is indeed uninsured at the time of leaving the dealer and collides with another they are also guilty of not only the criminal offence of conspiracy but are also liable in civil law for any loss or damage caused by that buyer.

 

Also a private seller does not have the same responsibilities as a trade dealer unless they are specificaly asked "is this car roadworthy and fit for purpose" they have no obligation for it to be so hence the term 'caveat emptor'

 

The purchaser in a private sale would have to prove they were considerably mislead for their claim to succeed

[crash3903]

If a dealer allows a buyer to drive on the public highway with an unroadworthy or unlicenced vehicle that he has sold he commits the offence of conspiracy

define what a conspiracy is

 

"IF" there were to be any offences on the part of the dealer it would be use cause or permit - In this case permit. But then you would have to prove that the dealer permitted the new owner to drive on the public highway with an unlicenced/unroadworthy vehicle. I have never heard of such a prosecution but I am sure there will be

[advisee]

Yes fraid you don't

 

If a dealer allows a buyer to drive on the public highway with an unroadworthy or unlicenced vehicle that he has sold he commits the offence of conspiracy

 

If the buyer is in an accident caused by that unroadworhyness or is indeed uninsured at the time of leaving the dealer and collides with another they are also guilty of not only the criminal offence of conspiracy but are also liable in civil law for any loss or damage caused by that buyer.

 

Can you back this up with either legislation or case law? Conspiracy to do what exactly?

 

Also a private seller does not have the same responsibilities as a trade dealer unless they are specificaly asked "is this car roadworthy and fit for purpose" they have no obligation for it to be so hence the term 'caveat emptor'

 

The purchaser in a private sale would have to prove they were considerably mislead for their claim to succeed

That is true to a point - buyer beware is always good advice however if something is being sold as "good runner just services 12 months T&T" then I would argue that is an implied term that the vehicle is fit for the purpose of being used as a motor vehicle on the queens highway!

[JonCris]

Look conspiracy up in the dictionary.

 

The fact of allowing the buyer to drive off knowing that the vehicle is either unroadworthy or unlicenced is sufficient to establish an offence on the part of the dealer.

 

A private seller may, in so many words claim the vehicle is 'fit for purpose' but if it isn't glaringly obvious at the time of purchase that it isn't then there is no liability on the private seller whatsoever.

 

For a claim to succeed the onus would be on the private buyer to prove the private seller knew of the fault.

 

If the buyer is a dealer then they are stuffed no matter what is wrong with the vehicle as they are classed by the Courts as having 'special knowledge' & should have spotted the fault at the time of purchase

[crash3903]

Conspiracy

 

a secret agreement between two or more people to perform an unlawful act

a plot to carry out some harmful or illegal act (especially a political plot)

a group of conspirators banded together to achieve some harmful or illegal purpose

The relevant word here is secret -

 

• not open or public; kept private or not revealed; "a secret formula"; "secret ingredients"; "secret talks"
  
• clandestine: conducted with or marked by hidden aims or methods; "clandestine intelligence operations"; "cloak-and-dagger activities behind enemy lines"; "hole-and-corner intrigue"; "secret missions"; "a secret agent"; "secret sales of arms"; "surreptitious mobilization of troops"; "an ...
  
• unavowed: not openly made known; "a secret marriage"; "a secret bride"
  
• communicated covertly; "their secret signal was a wink"; "secret messages"
  
• not expressed; "secret (or private) thoughts"
  
• hidden: designed to elude detection; "a hidden room or place of concealment such as a priest hole"; "a secret passage"; "the secret compartment in the desk"
  
• privy: hidden from general view or use; "a privy place to rest and think"; "a secluded romantic spot"; "a secret garden"
  
• confidential: (of information) given in confidence or in secret; "this arrangement must be kept confidential"; "their secret communications"
  
• something that should remain hidden from others (especially information that is not to be passed on); "the combination to the safe was a secret"; "he tried to keep his drinking a secret"
  
• indulging only covertly; "a secret alcoholic"
  
• information known only to a special group; "the secret of Cajun cooking"
  
• mysterious: having an import not apparent to the senses nor obvious to the intelligence; beyond ordinary understanding; "mysterious symbols"; "the mystical style of Blake"; "occult lore"; "the secret learning of the ancients"
  
• mystery: something that baffles understanding and cannot be explained; "how it got out is a mystery"; "it remains one of nature's secrets"
  
• the next to highest level of official classification for documents

 

As it is common knowledge that dealers do this, (argue all you like whether it is lawful or not), it cannot be held to be a secret act

 

I stand by my original suggestion of permit