adhd and a school who cant cope

[sandraroff]

my daughter and myself are now at a total loss as to what to do. my grandson is 4 years old and has seen all the specialists etc and they say he is showing all the classic signs of ADHD BUT they cant formally diagnose him until he is 6. he has been going to nursery who were aware of his special needs (his place was arranged by social services) and while he was at nursery, he had a really great time, one to one teaching and help and he really came out of himself and got on brilliantgly. the crunch came when he started at the infants school which the nursery is attached to. he has turned into a monster and it all came to grief last week when he hit someone who was picking on him. he actually hit them quite hard and did a bit of damage. so the school firstly excluded him for the next day, which was fine. but on friday my daughter had a phone call to tell her that he was excluded until wednesday (today) and he was also barred from the trip to see santa (poor little boy). my daughter had an appointment with them yesterday and now they are saying that they will only take him back on a part time basis. and by part time they mean up until ten thirty in morning. just one hour a day. and the reason?? because he isnt five they dont get funding for him and they can only do a one to one teacher for an hour a day!!!! he will also only be allowed to play with just two other children who he knew from nursery. one thing that begs an answer though, is when he hit the child last week, a group of four year olds were all outside playing unsupervised. none of the staff knew what happened in the incident, and have had to ask all the children who were what was going on!! my daughter is besides herself because it appears that whilst they were fully aware of his needs and problems, they havent acted on anything or implemented anything. certain programmes that were supposed to be put in place in september when he started there, havent been done. he has no one to one, nothing has been done. he has just been left out on a limb to struggle and find his way all be himself. and it isnt working!! of course it isnt working, he isnt like theother children. is there anyone out there who knows of rights etc that i can have a look at? be really grateful for any advice you can give. xxx

[poppynurse]

My first port of call would be the local education authority special needs department.

Has he been assessed for statementing? His parents can request formal assessment, this can take a while and they LEA may try and put you off but it can be done if you persevere. If he gets a statement then funding should follow to provide to support he needs. Not 100% sure if they statement 4 year olds - someone else will be along shortly I'm sure with more experience of younger children.

There is a lot of info on the internet about statementing - get to know your rights so you are prepared for the battle ahead.

Good luck.

It took me a couple of years to get a statement for my son because I didn't know my rights, since he's had it he has improved beyond all measure and is finally happy at school (albeit a special one).

 

 

If my comments have been helpful please click my scales

[Bookworm]

Ok, well, there's things I know the answer to, and there's things I don't, and there's some I'm not 100% sure... :-|

 

Statement and funding for 4 year olds: I don't know, but I can make some enquiries and try and find out if no-one gives you the answer.

 

Diagnosis: Whilst most children with apparent problems get a definite diagnosis between the age and 5 and 7, it doesn't mean they can't establish a diagnosis before that, and I am surprised at the reluctance to do so if his symptoms are that specific. The reason the diagnosis often comes so late is that younger children vary wildly in their behaviours and growth, so specialists tend not to want to label early, in case the child catches up. However, in severe cases, it seems absurd. I would go back and insist for a diagnosis asap.

 

Children become of compulsory school age at thestart of the school term after they reach the age of five, so I believe that it is quite correct that the funding or extra resources will not be available until he is "officially" at school.

 

Your daughter could argue that excluding him is discrimination on the grounds of disability (which it is), see here: Independent Panel for Special Education Advice (IPSEA): for some info on a similar case. I had the same problem with my son, and if I had known then what I know now, the school would not have got away with it. My child, whose obsession is anything relating to the Army, wars etc... was barred from a trip to the Tooley Street exhibition on WW2, (when he was probably the one who would have enjoyed it -and understood it- the most) on the grounds that they "couldn't guarantee his safety" and from a day out on the farm.

 

I'll try and find out more for you about his age and the responsabilities it entails for the school and authorities.

 

Stupid question, maybe, but I assume that your daughter is strictly controlling his diet? Additives, sugars, colorants and so on often have a HUGE impact on ADHD kids and a rigorous change on diet has shown some very significant changes in behaviours in a lot of ADHD/ADD kids. Some of the people I know, their child is so sensitive that it only takes one sweet and BAM, kid takes off like a rocket! And it is very easy to let slip! :-|

[lindsay22]

i have gone through a similar experiance, my son was statemented at 6 before his diagnosis from chams. i am really shocked at what the school are doing, it does not seem fair. baning him from a school trip is disgusting, my sons school tried the same tactics last year with his school panto and i went berserk he ended up going and there were no problems.

you really do need to push for a statement and the school should be backing you all the way. also get another appointment at chams they should be able to diagnose him, the longer its left the harder it is.

 

good luck

[maybelline]

bookworm, I also had help from IPSEA, they were excellent but it was a while ago now, my son was diagnosed with AS privately as the whole statement scenario took FOUR years to complete at the second attempt, he spent several years out of school illegally allowed to not be there, I was treated as a bad parent etc etc, these stories are all too frequent, most of the parents I know who had late diagnoses for their kids went through absolute hell at the hands of the education system. My son was removed from a school trip the day before! he was refused entry to a new school on day one arriving all kitted out in a new uniform for refusing to look at the Head teacher (autistic kids find this hard if not impossible to do) the list of punishments is endless.

 

best wishes to those who come through it and find better ways of achieving the results you all deserve:)

[debt4get]

this is a really difficult situation and as an exteacher now retired I do sympathise with your predicament, it has become blantantly obvious over the years that schools do not have the expertise in numbers to deal with these children, whilst it is every parents right to expect their children to be dealt with as if they are the only child in the school the reality of it is that they aren't, if a child misbehaves for whetever reason, the teaching staff and the senior school management are often left with no other options but to apply sanctions, the minority cannot be allowed to be 'seen' to get away with unacceptable behaviour using whatever condition they may have, or not have,and have/havenot been diagnosed for. the blame is not within the schools themselves but in goverment initiatives that have shut down the 'special schools' where these children could have been given more one to one care in small discreet groups that larger schools do not have the luxury of. the best you can hope for in most circumstances is for them to have a helper normally unqualified, but in my humble opinion they do a marvellous job despite the little training they have. The cry from parents of these children is I dont want them in special schools, they will be singled out! labelled etc etc, but what you have to remember is, they are already labelled, if you go for statementing, they get extra help extra time in exams etc, but the children around them believe you me they notice.......

like I said the blame doesnt lie with the school.you are lashing out at the wrong people, the fault lies with both the system and the goverment and I for one wish you well in your battle with both... I shall take my pension and watch further as the education in this country goes slowly down the drain.

[Bookworm]

you are lashing out at the wrong people

No, I don't think so. That is a far too simplistic approach and which does not take into account the essential differences in children on the autistic spectrum.

 

Are you going to tell me that if a child was blind, it would be acceptable for the school to let him fall down the stairs because there isn't enough staff to surpervise him? Or for a child in a wheelchair to be left in the rain because he can't get up the stairs to get to shelter? Of course not, these children are seen to need the extra help, they will get assistance to help with their disability.

 

To condone sanctions for an ASD child whose behaviour is as much a symptom of his condition as the wheelchair or the blindness for others, is appalling. So if the blind kid walks into a door, by the same logic, let's punish him for damaging school equipment, shall we? Well, what's the difference? Your stance is exactly what most of us have had to put up and fight against in mainstream, so please spare us that attitude, some of our kids are still carrying the mental scars of the attitude of people like you.

 

Yes, the closure of special needs school is a disgrace, but it does not excuse the crass ignorance and/or deliberate budget-cutting exercise of exclusion rather than even trying to keep the kids in school of some heads.

[maybelline]

oh thanks Bookworm, the posting by debt4fet is so riddled full of ignorance and prejudice it beggars belief.

[please return my money]

There are a few professional organisations that may be able to really assist you on this Here are three I have used and found very helpful

 

 

The Disability Law Service

Disability Law Service, has free helpline and can sometimes take up a case without charge.

 

Equality and Human Rights Commission - home page

The old disability rights commission has amalagamated into the above. Their disability helpline was fantastic, havent used it since they merged.

 

Disability Alliance UK (United Kingdom) Home Page

Also has various help including an extremely handy yearly book on claiming benefits which gives really good tips that can mean the difference between benefit being granted or refused.

 

Hope this really helps, ring them or email where you can. I would suggest starting with the disability law service.

 

Good Luck

[mnrbig]

I had the same problem with my little boy. In his case, the school would exclude him as he was "disruptive". My wife now home schools him and he is a completely changed child. He jumps up and down runs around while being taught, but that's how he learns.

[PriorityOne]

It is possible to get a Statement for a child under the age of 5, but I doubt that you'll get one for ADHD. My friend has just had a Band E Statement through for her (nearly) 4-year-old autistic daughter though.

 

I don't think Debt4get was being ignorant or prejudicial... he was merely stating what goes in on schools. He said that he was an ex-teacher, so must have witnessed a fair few incidents over the years. I also work in the education system and have seen a fair few myself and there simply aren't enough staff to monitor the needs of every child on the SEN register unless their Statement banding is high.... and even then, a lot of LSAs/TAs do this kind of work because they want the school holidays off... not because they necessarily know/understand how to get the best from SEN kids.

 

One of my colleagues; a Teaching Assistant, is in a class with 4 Statemented children, all with different needs and a host of SA+ kids as well.... so although they are all "entitled" to receive X amount of hours help, in reality the help is spread over several children in the same class.... Needless to say, the behaviour is off the ceiling most days and kids with or without SEN don't learn a thing.... because the school can't cope !

 

On a slightly different note.... there are now so many children "diagnosed" with this and that, that it does make you wonder sometimes whether in around 20 years time, society is going to look back and question the ethics of placing certain children on medication for their behaviour.... just because adults don't know how else to handle them and smacking is no longer tolerated.

 

I had one lad introduce himself to me as a "schizophreenee" with ADHD several weeks ago... have seen several on anti-psychotic medication and absolutely zillions taking Ritalin. Some kids are even told by parents to play up to the Ed. Psych. in order (I assume) for parents to qualify for extra help. It's really not how people think it is in schools.

 

The whole system saddens me... for the genuine ones who slip through the net (I know a lad of 16 who's leaving in 3 months with a reading age of 6 !) and in particular, for the over-use of prescribed drugs to control behaviour and in some cases, for parents to get extra Benefits (DLA can be awarded to parents for childrens' behaviour).

 

I've also sometimes wondered if I would have been "diagnosed" with some kind of behavioural disorder myself and shoved on medication, had I been born a few decades later.... for anti-social behaviour following certain events in my childhood.

 

Food for thought....

[debt4get]

thank you priority one its very easy to attack the messenger if you dont like the message. as mnrbig said my child home schooled runs around but thats how he learns, fine, but how can you have children running around in say a dangerous science lab with chemicals and equipment that can injure, both the child and the people around them. Parents rightly so defend there offspring to the hilt and I would do the same, but, we have to be realistic, these children in a normal school setting are not getting the best education they deserve.

[PriorityOne]

I may have to start a separate thread on this Debt4get.... as we may hijack the thread otherwise. Whilst I don't want to upset anyone who has a SEN child, it's normally the SA+ kids who lack the support and these are also usually the ones "diagnosed" with behavioural issues.... not to mention those that copy that behaviour and are not (yet) "diagnosed" with anything.

 

I'll post you a link when the thread is up and running .....

[PriorityOne]

Discussion re. SEN, state education and the number of "diagnosed" children within it

[Bookworm]

I don't think Debt4get was being ignorant or prejudicial... he was merely stating what goes in on schools.

 

Sorry, but I can not agree with your opinion. This here:

the teaching staff and the senior school management are often left with no other options but to apply sanctions, the minority cannot be allowed to be 'seen' to get away with unacceptable behaviour using whatever condition they may have, or not have,and have/havenot been diagnosed for.

is both ignorant and prejudicial. There always are choices other than sanctions. Not just that, there is a duty for the school to make a different choice than sanctions. As for "getting away" with unacceptable behaviour (which I assume is the corollary to "bad example to the others"?), I can assure you that T.'s schoolmates were a far better example on how to behave with a SN child than most adults in that school. They accepted him for different, they made room for him and gave in to his own quirks and tried to include him in their games and activities, and when things got too much for him, they left him to his own devices until he had calmed down. This is more than I can say the school ever did, instead choosing to punish him by not taking him on excursions on the assumption that he would flip, forcing him to go to assemblies which were a sure-fire trigger for his sensory overload, refusing to accept what I was telling them was the matter with him until we had an official diagnosis, and then still excluding him when he got so distressed that he rolled into a ball and started banging agaisnt the wall. And all this time, they did it whilst trying to make it that it was my fault that T. was behaving the way he was, as it was easier than face up to their own inability/unwillingness to learn about his condition and adapt their behaviour.

 

There always are other options than sanctions. Simply because those would be more time-consuming and/or expensive than sanctions does not excuse the above statement.

 

thank you priority one its very easy to attack the messenger if you dont like the message.

If the message is one that perpetuates and frankly comes across as condoning the prejudice and, least we forget, the discrimination of our children, then it is our duty to shoot the messenger so that the message can not get through, ever, and hope that eventually, this acceptance of non-acceptable behaviour becomes eradicated.

[PriorityOne]

Have replied on the other thread...