Urgent Help/Advice Needed

[shellzone2270]

I really need some urgent advice, Have had the day from hell today.

 

Basically my manager took me off today for a chat at about 4:15pm only to tell me that there had been a compliant put in against me from out client, no details as to what which is the first time I had knew about any sort of issues. Basically it has been passed up to my account managers manager, who has gathered the evidence against me ready to hold a displinary hearing and then dimiss me on gross misconduct! Obviously this has shaken me completly today, as I never knew anything was wrong, my manager was made aware of this over 10 days ago ad has only just told me. I have been with the company over 2 years have had 2 days off sick in that time and have an excellent record, so this has come and knocked me for six.

 

Basically after I had calmed down I was given 2 choices to stay on and face the hearing and certain dismisal or resign there and then, I was given about 15 minutes to decide, and obviously I wasn't in any state of mind to be making a huge decsion like that. Thinking on my future and employment record I chose to resign.

 

On getting home at about 7pm, after talking with my partner, looking at my contract and various websites. I am wondering if I have grounds for unfair dismisal I found the following quote on one site :

Normally, if you resign, you bring the employment contract to end and so you have not been dismissed. However, there are circumstances where, although you have resigned, you will still be treated as being dismissed. This could be:-

• if you resigned under pressure from your employer

Would this be true given that I only had a short amount of time to make a life changing decsion, also should they have informed me of the complaint before being brought in for an informal chat, and details of what i am accused of?

Cheers

Michelle

[Goldlady]

Sounds as if they have broken just about every rule in the employment handbook. It is called constructive dismissal by the way.

 

You have many rights as I am sure you will realise from your internet research. ACAS is a good place to find things out but I am sure lots of the employment law experts on here will give you good advice too, but probably tomorrow.

 

Try and get some sleep - I can't imagine how you must be feeling. But from what you have said you have an extremely strong case for an Employment Tribunal. Put it this way - we sacked someone a few years ago for beating up another member of staff - he threw the guy across my desk, smashing my monitor, and I was 8 months pregnant at the time - we sacked him for gross misconduct and he still won the tribunal:confused:.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

Yes, procedure is all important with employment law and it appears they have ignored it.

 

It seems you have been treated in an awful manner and I would suggest a call to ACAS asap.

 

Also, check your home insurance policy for cover for employment disputes-which is usually standard.

[Sidewinder]

What a shocker!

 

Try to keep your chin up. Once you have a clear head start to document exactly what happened in writing - what was said and by whom. As stated above it would appear that your employer has ridden roughshod over clear protocol and procedures and you have a number of rights still open to you, not least the fact that you were put under duress.

 

You had the right to written advance notice of a disciplinary hearing, outlining the case against you and the options available to your employer in terms of the outcome of the hearing. You had the right to be given the evidence against you and time to prepare for the hearing. You had the right to accompaniment. After the hearing there should have been a period of reflection and the decision of the hearing to be given to you in writing, together with the right of appeal.

 

Your employer has pre-judged the hearing and coerced you into a course of action without considering the legal obligations of the employer or rights of the employee. You should have been called to inform you of an allegation and suspended pending a disciplinary hearing, the date of which would be notified to you, and for the hearing to be held in accordance with your rights. His actions would have made any dismissal automatically unfair. The fact that you have resigned (have you put your signature to anything or been asked to sign a letter of resignation?) is a complication, but does not close the door to a claim of constructive or unfair dismissal due to the nature of the resignation. What was the purpose in them offering you resignation as an option? A clean reference? That would be illegal and tantamount to blackmail.

 

Naturally you may not wish to disclose too many details of the allegation against you or how it constitutes Gross Misconduct. It may be that you have been guilty of something which warranted dismissal, but it has to be done properly.

 

You should definitely consult a solicitor with expertise in employment law, but providing that she is about in the morning, Ell-Enn will give you great advice ahead of that, by PM if you would rather it being a little less public.

[callumsgran]

Sounds as if they have broken just about every rule in the employment handbook. It is called constructive dismissal by the way.

 

You have many rights as I am sure you will realise from your internet research. ACAS is a good place to find things out but I am sure lots of the employment law experts on here will give you good advice too, but probably tomorrow.

 

Try and get some sleep - I can't imagine how you must be feeling. But from what you have said you have an extremely strong case for an Employment Tribunal. Put it this way - we sacked someone a few years ago for beating up another member of staff - he threw the guy across my desk, smashing my monitor, and I was 8 months pregnant at the time - we sacked him for gross misconduct and he still won the tribunal:confused:.

 

What a joke!!

 

And here's me been told to drop my tribunal because my employer had 3 witnesses 2 of them family and friends

[cal37]

You should see an employment lawyer ASAP. Did you put it in writing, did they put anything in writing, and were there any witness to this conversation?

I ask this because your employer could say that you resigned for other reasons, that there was no case against you going on etc etc if it were to go to an ET.

My advice is to put a grievance letter into them, outlining your displeasure and the fact that you consider yourself to of been constructively dismissed and you want a grievance hearing. get this in ASAP, i take it you gave notice?

[shellzone2270]

What a shocker!

 

Try to keep your chin up. Once you have a clear head start to document exactly what happened in writing - what was said and by whom. As stated above it would appear that your employer has ridden roughshod over clear protocol and procedures and you have a number of rights still open to you, not least the fact that you were put under duress.

 

You had the right to written advance notice of a disciplinary hearing, outlining the case against you and the options available to your employer in terms of the outcome of the hearing. You had the right to be given the evidence against you and time to prepare for the hearing. You had the right to accompaniment. After the hearing there should have been a period of reflection and the decision of the hearing to be given to you in writing, together with the right of appeal.

 

Your employer has pre-judged the hearing and coerced you into a course of action without considering the legal obligations of the employer or rights of the employee. You should have been called to inform you of an allegation and suspended pending a disciplinary hearing, the date of which would be notified to you, and for the hearing to be held in accordance with your rights. His actions would have made any dismissal automatically unfair. The fact that you have resigned (have you put your signature to anything or been asked to sign a letter of resignation?) is a complication, but does not close the door to a claim of constructive or unfair dismissal due to the nature of the resignation. What was the purpose in them offering you resignation as an option? A clean reference? That would be illegal and tantamount to blackmail.

 

Naturally you may not wish to disclose too many details of the allegation against you or how it constitutes Gross Misconduct. It may be that you have been guilty of something which warranted dismissal, but it has to be done properly.

 

You should definitely consult a solicitor with expertise in employment law, but providing that she is about in the morning, Ell-Enn will give you great advice ahead of that, by PM if you would rather it being a little less public.

 

Hi thanks for your reply, stupidly I did sign a letter and as you can imagine at thetime I was not thinking clearly at all having had all this information just dumped on me and being expected to make decision there and then. They offered me resignation as an option so I could walk out with a clean reference and my benefits .

[Ell-enn]

Hi there, I'm sorry to hear you've been so badly treated by your employer. Try to stay positive - they have not behaved correctly and you now need to take them to task for this.

 

As CAL37 says, you should see an employment lawyer as soon as possible - if you contact the CAB they will be able to tell you if there is a law centre near you where you can get free legal advice, but there are a lot of solicitors firms who offer a free first consultation.

 

Please let us know how things progress.

 

Kind Regards

 

Ell-enn

[shellzone2270]

All,

 

Thanks for your replys. Right I have spent the weekend writing everything down from my meeting last week. Do I need to submit a grievence against the company before I can proceed with possible legal advice?

 

Cheers

 

Michelle

[cal37]

All,

 

Thanks for your replys. Right I have spent the weekend writing everything down from my meeting last week. Do I need to submit a grievence against the company before I can proceed with possible legal advice?

 

Cheers

 

Michelle

 

 

No not now you have left the company. However it’s always best to try and resolve these issues without going to an ET.

 

My advice is to speak to the company and ask them to reconsider their position before you take legal action for a possible ET claim of consecutive dismissal.

 

When you see a lawyer, be honest; tell him as much detail as you can. If you are guilty of any wrong doing, tell him, this is vitally important.

[shellzone2270]

No not now you have left the company. However it’s always best to try and resolve these issues without going to an ET.

 

My advice is to speak to the company and ask them to reconsider their position before you take legal action for a possible ET claim of consecutive dismissal.

 

When you see a lawyer, be honest; tell him as much detail as you can. If you are guilty of any wrong doing, tell him, this is vitally important.

 

I did try to retract my resignation, but the company would not let me. What else can I ask the company to do? Sorry about asking all the questions, still trying ot get my head around the whole situtation at the moment.

[cal37]

Ok main thing is, did they refuse in writing? If not ask them to do so and then start the legal process.

On the information in your first post, you have a very good case; however you will need to seek legal advice on a one to one basis ASAP.

 

Best advice is to ask the company in writing to reconsider their position (if not done in writing before) send this recorded delivery and keep a copy. This gives you a record of your attempts to resolve the matter informally and will help your case.

 

Please do not worry about asking question, we are here to help as much as possible.

[shellzone2270]

Thanks,

 

I have put a letter together to send to the company tomorrow, in the mean time I'm going to get some legal advice tomorrow if I can find a company that offers a free consultation as money is very tight at the moment.

 

Thanks for all your Help

 

Michelle

[Goldlady]

The universities have student law offices that will help you for nothing. It's a good service cos they are backed up by their tutors who are often barristers. I know as I have been in court against them. I don't know where you live but it might be worth contacting your local university to see if they offer such a service.

[paulgmb]

Hi,

 

If you have had a written reply to your letter withdrawing your resignation (how conveinient that it was obviously typed up and ready for you to sign) you should submit a formal grievance straight away or this may prevent you from going to an ET. Request a copy of the grievance procedure but don't wait for this before you submit.

 

My advice is never make any decisions on the spot, this is bullying. What is the worse they can do? Dismiss you? Thats what they were going to do anyway!

 

Good luck with this,

 

Regards,

 

Paul.

[shellzone2270]

Thanks for all your replys, getting a little confused though as someone has stated not to put in a grievence while someone else has said to put one in with the company?!!?!?! Have been in touch with 2 solicitors/lawyer firms today, just waiting to hear back off them both, also just going through home insurance documents to see if I would be covered.

 

Cheers

 

Michelle

[cal37]

Hi Michelle,

 

The first thing you did wrong was resigning in the first place. Never ever do this; always go through the disciplinary procedures to the full.

 

Now you have resigned you need to do two things. First asking (in writing) for them to reconsider, next put in writing a formal grievance letter.

 

The company will more than likely refuse to hear a grievance off you quoting that you no longer work for them. However that is fine for your purpose.

 

Next see an employment lawyer, tell/show him all you have done so far, be 100% honest with him, if you have done something wrong them tell him.

 

I say this because we do not know the reasons or nature of the original conplaint and I know I’ve said always see through the disciplinary procedures as an official line but lets face it, there are times where it might be best to cut and run.

 

Not saying this in the case here but it’s very important that your lawyer knows fully all the details.

[MARTIN3030]

As advised many times here Michelle your next step should be the Employment Lawyer.

Personally I would not do anything further until you have been given advice from there-they are trained in this and know the ropes.Hopefully you can get an initial consultation pretty quickly if only to get a brief on if theres anything you should be doing in the short term.

Keep us posted either way.

 

This seems a good link if those that you have tried do not come back to you.

British Employment Law Advice -- Featuring a National Network Of Employment Solicitors For Legal Advice

[paulgmb]

my original advice stands about the grievance. too many cases are ruled out at ET because they have not tried to resolve it locally through the grievance procedure.

 

If you wait to see an employment lawyer you might be out of time under the grievance procedure.

 

regards,

 

Paul

[cal37]

I agree Paul; you have to show that you have tried to resolve the problem before resorting to a tribunal.

[shellzone2270]

Hi,

 

Thought I better update everyone on the the situation, I sent a grievence letter to my old employers before Xmas, to which I recieved a reply for yesterday.Basically they had an answer for everything I raised, which I expected, and my old manager has deined what was said in the 1:1 when he gave me the choice to stay or resign. He's stated that it was just to inform me that disapliny (Spelling?) action would now be taken against me, as I have no proof but my own word on what happened in the 1:1 its his word against mine.

 

I am now after advice as to my next course of action, I really want the company to pay for all the stress they have caused me leading up to the events of my resignation and what I have gone through since, but at the same time I have just (finally) got my self a new job which I started last friday, which I am really enjoying and I don't want to jepodise this as the agency who got my the position and my employer do not know of the situation with my previous employer.

 

I would appreciate any advice from anyone who has been through a similar experience

 

Michelle

[Sidewinder]

my old manager has deined what was said in the 1:1 when he gave me the choice to stay or resign. He's stated that it was just to inform me that disapliny (Spelling?) action would now be taken against me, as I have no proof but my own word on what happened in the 1:1 its his word against mine.

 

I would have to ask how if that was the case that the resignation letter was already prepared for you to sign?

 

I can fully appreciate your anger in this, but am pleased that you have managed to find alternative employment reasonably quickly and it seems at this stage that you are enjoying it. Congratulations!

 

The choice over what to do now is entirely yours, but as you have acknowledged, you also have to take into account whether you want to stir the waters now that they are beginning to settle. Almost certainly you have sufficient grounds from what you have said to proceed with a complaint to a Tribunal (although if you do choose this route then previous advice to firstly consult an Employment Lawyer is still valid). Bear in mind though that it could be a long and complicated ordeal and is unlikely to make you a fortune in compensation particularly as the fact that you have now secured employment removes some of the scope on which the compensatory element of an award would be based. A successful case (for which in 99% of cases each side pays their own costs) would normally pay an award equivalent to between 0.5 and 1.5 weeks wages (depending on your age) for each completed years sevice as a basic award - the award may be increased if statutory procedures were not followed, but may also be decreased if the ET feel that you were in part responsible for your dismissal or were guilty of any sort of misconduct, or received for example in your case any pay in lieu of notice when you were forced to resign. The compensatory award would take into account factors such as loss or earnings since dismissal, loss of pension rights if you were in a pension in your old job, loss of benefits (such as healthcare, company car etc if you had any in your old job) and future loss of earnings if it is likely that you will be unemployed for some period of time looking for a new job. The ET will not award anything for stress or hurt feelings unfortunately.

 

Taking that into account, and measuring your financial losses on the one hand against the costs, time and work involved in bringing a successful action on the other, you may decide that it is time to put the whole thing down to a particularly unpleasant experience. Alternatively, having done the homework and taken legal advice if you still feel the same as you do now, you may decide that the likely financial benefit, anger and hurt are sufficient motivation to take the case to Tribunal.

 

Whatever you do - Good Luck!

[shellzone2270]

Hi All,

 

Just an update and another twist to the tale. When I handed my resignation in last year I was told that I would get paid in december which I did and that I would recieve the company bonus in Jan 08, both of which I have the confirmation that I would be paid both in witing. Now based on the 2 years i was with the company the bonus has always been paid on the 28th Jan, which I have yet to recieve.

 

I got in contact with HR who said I would need to contact my old line manager to sort it out, problem is I have emailed him a couple of times and have left voicemails for him and I have yet to receive a response. My bf thinks that due to my grievence letter that my old manager has been told not to speak to me.

 

So I am at a total lose as to what to do next, I had just got myself calmed down and now this. Any advice is much welcomed!

[Ell-enn]

Hi there, I would send a letter to the HR department and enclose a photocopy of the written confirmation you have stating that the bonus would be paid. Send it recorded delivery so they can't say they never received it. Tell them you are giving them 7 days to respond with payment.

 

HR should not have told you to contact your old line manager, they should deal with him regarding this. You should not have to make contact with anyone in the company who is involved in your grievance.

 

Good Luck

 

Kind Regards

 

Ell-enn

[mortlake]

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