Benefit Cheats

[setmefree]

Should all benefit cheats who are caught be named and shamed in their local newspaper...

I say yes, why should us the taxpayer foot the bill,any one else care to comment???

[bottomburp]

I think it is morally wrong (as well as wrong in law) to claim for things you aren't entitled to.

 

But whether a cheat should be named and shamed rather depends on whose authority the cheat is named. For example it shouldn't be up to the neighbour to name and shame.

 

So my answer is yes and no.

[setmefree]

I meant named and shamed by their local authority,should av added that bit

[dave]

Well, if Northern Rock can claim 24 billion in benefits and have to be shamed publically then...... ;-)

[bottomburp]

But why should tax payers pay to get an institution such as Northern Rock out of trouble? If it had been allowed to go down the loosers would have been the shareholders - that's what happens when a public company goes bust! But because this was a bank and the investors were mainly insurance companies, pension funds, hedge funds (ie big City names who made big noises) HMG decided to intervene. And now HMG is caught between a rock and a hard place as the shareholders will refuse to let it be sold for a price that reduces the value of their shareholding and if it's allowed to go bust now HMG will have lost in excess of £24billion of tax payers' money.

 

Ditto the missing CDs fiasco. You're a victim of identity fraud and you sue HMRC under the DPA. The tax payer will have to pay. Your bank account is emptied. Why should the banks (for once I am on their side) have to pay for this when the reason the fraudsters got the information was the loss of the CDs. So who will reimburse you? The tax payer.

 

The whole thing is set up so the tax payer ends up having to pay to sort out messes caused by other's incompetence.

[JonCris]

No one should be 'named & shamed'. Being punished by the courts should be enough. However as it's the same as putting people in the stocks so we fortunately did away with that cruel & unusual punishment years ago.

 

Of course there are out there many of the hang & flog 'em brigade who speaking from their high moral ground don't much care for their fellow citizens.

 

As Dave intimates if Northern Rock can take £900 (& rising) from everyone in this country without our consent & without any hope of recovering it (much like the Rover debacle) then I think it's a petty & vindictive suggestion to expose these ordinary people to further ridicule after they have been dealt with by the courts.

[bottomburp]

The local newspapers report on other criminal cases; I don't see why a benefits cheat deserves more privacy than, say, a drug dealer or a shoplifter.

[setmefree]

No one should be 'named & shamed'. Being punished by the courts should be enough.(But surely if they never frauded the system in the first place they wouldn't end up in court) However as it's the same as putting people in the stocks so we fortunately did away with that cruel & unusual punishment years ago.

 

Of course there are out there many of the hang & flog 'em brigade who speaking from their high moral ground don't much care for their fellow citizens.(And there are many benefit fraudsters who couldn't give a toss about the working class,whils't they are sat in the pub spending our tax money)

 

As Dave intimates if Northern Rock can take £900 (& rising) from everyone in this country without our consent & without any hope of recovering it (much like the Rover debacle) then I think it's a petty & vindictive suggestion to expose these ordinary people to further ridicule after they have been dealt with by the courts.

 

An average of £800 million benefit fraud is committed every year,this could be spent on our hospitals etc etc.

[kia]

then theres the people who do deserve benefits who dont get em cos there too honest and honesty is definatley not the best policy seems like the cheats get it all on a plate i claim DLA but only get it on the help needed side of it didnt get the mobilty side cos i can walk to my gate how does that work out cos when my illness is bad i do struggle but if i put that do i get seen as a cheat cos theres times when i cant do it xxkia

[JonCris]

The local newspapers report on other criminal cases; I don't see why a benefits cheat deserves more privacy than, say, a drug dealer or a shoplifter.

 

Because they aren't 'drug dealers' or 'shoplifters'

[dave]

As could 24 billion quid.

 

The courts deal with people who break the rules.

 

Naming and shaming used to work here in my village - smugglers that were caught were hung, and left hanging for weeks to show what would happen.

 

I don't think, as a modern society that naming and shaming is the way.

 

I think most benefit cheats do so because they are up against the wall.

 

Personally, if I had to live on 40 quid a week or whatever it is, I would probably do something about it somehow, but then, I'm clever and honest ;-), and maybe they are not so...

[Guest louis wu]

No one should be 'named & shamed'. Being punished by the courts should be enough. However as it's the same as putting people in the stocks so we fortunately did away with that cruel & unusual punishment years ago.

 

Of course there are out there many of the hang & flog 'em brigade who speaking from their high moral ground don't much care for their fellow citizens.

 

When their fellow citizens are robbing and cheating their way through life, then I think we are entitled to get annoyed. Personally speaking, if the courts are not strong enough, or able enough to hand out sentences that actually fit the crime, then yes, name and shame them. Whilst were at it, bring back the stocks as well.

[dave]

...and drug dealers and shoplifters don't get publically shamed either, do they?

[setmefree]

Because they aren't 'drug dealers' or 'shoplifters'

A shoplifter is a thief,a benefit cheat is a thief i can't see the difference apart from a shoplifter could be in court for stealing let's say an item worth £50.00,A benefit thief could be in court for an average of £3,000

[JonCris]

An average of £800 million benefit fraud is committed every year,this could be spent on our hospitals etc etc.

 

Giving the hospitals another! £800 million Now that would be a criminal waste of money particularly as the Health Service is in credit.

 

Who says there is £800 million in benefit fraud?

 

That figures from the department of Statistical Guesswork. It's a figure dreamt up by Whitehall (& the Sun) so they can claim the need to cut benefits. Anyway if those figures are to be believed unclaimed benefits by far & away exceed any fraud paid out in benefits.

[JonCris]

A shoplifter is a thief,a benefit cheat is a thief i can't see the difference apart from a shoplifter could be in court for stealing let's say an item worth £50.00,A benefit thief could be in court for an average of £3,000

 

 

You can't see the difference. Yes I get annoyed when someone is found to be serial benefit cheat but once dealt with by the courts (whether you like it or not) then that's the end of the matter.

 

As Dave says, & I have seen, most 'benefits cheats' do it out of desperation not a wanton willingness to steal

[JonCris]

then theres the people who do deserve benefits who dont get em cos there too honest and honesty is definatley not the best policy seems like the cheats get it all on a plate i claim DLA but only get it on the help needed side of it didnt get the mobilty side cos i can walk to my gate how does that work out cos when my illness is bad i do struggle but if i put that do i get seen as a cheat cos theres times when i cant do it xxkia

 

If you appeal your DLA award you must describe your worst day not your best. Don't try & be stoical

[setmefree]

As Dave says, & I have seen, most 'benefits cheats' do it out of desperation not a wanton willingness to steal

Yeah just like the couple who got caught living by me,two kids the mother claiming as a single mother whils't the partner who is father of the kids lived in the same property.

The only thing that this family lost out on was their yearly holidays to Eygpt and weekends on the booze.

[setmefree]

then theres the people who do deserve benefits who dont get em cos there too honest and honesty is definatley not the best policy seems like the cheats get it all on a plate i claim DLA but only get it on the help needed side of it didnt get the mobilty side cos i can walk to my gate how does that work out cos when my illness is bad i do struggle but if i put that do i get seen as a cheat cos theres times when i cant do it xxkia

 

I agree with you Kia,because you are honest you are penalised.

[PriorityOne]

Such an emotive topic... and one that is regularly looked at through Government eyes via the tabloid press. They do like the weaker targets, don't they ? I can remember when lone parents were reported as the new villains in town.... then it was asylum seekers. Anyone know what a moral panic is ? Well, the above are 2 examples of how easy it is to stir society up into a moral frenzy about certain groups of people, who are usually without the power or the funds to retaliate.

 

I'm not saying I agree with any form of cheating... only that it needs to be looked at as part of a much bigger picture. Whose interests are being threatened by Benefit "cheats" after all... why our whiter-than-white Government of course.... that same Government who wasted huge chunks of public money on a pointless war in Iraq, who allow NHS hospitals to go to rack and ruin, kids to come out of school unable to read or write.... as well as many other things I could mention. If private hospitals/schools were affected in such ways, you can be d*mn sure that something would be done to put them right....

 

As for crimes.... what about middle-class tax "evasion"... computer fraud... and so on. Are these ever reported in such a kangaroo court fashion in the tabloid press ? No, of course not. Benefit "cheats" give great entertainment value. Even on daytime TV now.... we are brainwashed into thinking that they all sit on their backsides all day, drinking, smoking and letting their kids run wild.... whilst cheating the system to prop up their lazy lifestyles.

 

I know a lot of good people who have raised some very good kids whilst being on Benefits and some have worked on the side to do so because the opportunities to earn a living wage or so small.

 

Anyone who thinks otherwise really does need to take those blinkers off.

 

Just in case you're wondering.... I go to work.

[JonCris]

Yeah just like the couple who got caught living by me,two kids the mother claiming as a single mother whils't the partner who is father of the kids lived in the same property.

The only thing that this family lost out on was their yearly holidays to Eygpt and weekends on the booze.

 

Are you suggesting that ALL benefit claimants take overseas holidays & spend the weekend boozing. No.

 

Remember we can all give anecdotal evidence to support our argument

[JonCris]

Theres some who have missed their vocation in life. Being debt collectors might be a good career change. Then they could meet out their brand of punishment to those who can't manage

[PriorityOne]

Are you suggesting that ALL benefit claimants take overseas holidays & spend the weekend boozing. No.

 

Remember we can all give anecdotal evidence to support our argument

 

Totally agree with you JonCris...

 

I wonder which particular "newspaper" reported about that one ? This thread shows how easy it is to fool the general public into turning against one other.... People really need to thnk about who controls the media sometimes ?...

[JonCris]

Priority I agree entirely but I doubt your reasoned argument will convince the hang 'em & flog 'em brigade

[setmefree]

 

I know a lot of good people who have raised some very good kids whilst being on Benefits and some have worked on the side to do so because the opportunities to earn a living wage or so small.

Anyone who thinks otherwise really does need to take those blinkers off.

Just in case you're wondering.... I go to work.

 

Ah i see so what you are saying is it's o.k. to claim benefits and work on the side,well if they are capable of as you say doing work on the side why are they claiming benefits in the first place,it's those sort of people i'm aiming it at.