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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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NR/Wallers Claimform - £29k Pers Loan *DISCONTINUED*


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Alan

yes i have read Wallis letter file it and wont tell you where guess ok

 

 

Andy

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No they cant have another stab at it Lol

 

Why not?

 

the law prevents people discontinuing a case, then continuing it on the same facts, but if they discontinue it, send a new default notice, and then continue the case the case would be brought on different facts.

 

They do this with improper notice of assignment issues all the time.

i will be off site for the next month or so. if you have any problems, feel free to report the post so a moderator can help you.

 

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From part 38 - Discontinuance

 

Discontinuance and subsequent proceedings

 

38.7 A claimant who discontinues a claim needs the permission of the court to make another claim against the same defendant if –

(a)he discontinued the claim after the defendant filed a defence; and

(b)the other claim arises out of facts which are the same or substantially the same as those relating to the discontinued claim.

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Alan

I told you last w/e to Defend all of it. later in your post it was refered that I was giving misadvice by a member of cag and therefore refained from your post.

I knew there would be penalty charges there always are and I bet you there will be problems with your CCA.Add the fact that they wont comply with your C.P.R request then your defence will reflect all these anomolies

So stop panicking you are in good hands with the the team on CAG.

Hope this averts the crises for now.

 

 

Regards

Andy

 

Andy,

 

 

no one said you were giving misadvice as far as i am aware,

 

what was said and i stand by my comments is that......

 

 

Hi Womble,

 

I can see you are getting conflicting advice and it is rather unfair on you.

 

ultimately, you are the one who has to deal with this action

 

The letter that Ben posted is a CPR request, this asks for disclosure of all the facts that the other party is going to rely upon and if they dont send you the info thats requested, you can make the court aware of that fact and also include this in any defence

 

can you defend when you owe them the money?

 

well that is a difficult question to answer as we stand here

 

yes you can defend , if they dont have a compliant copy of the credit agreement the court will be prohibited from making any enforcement order

 

 

to be able to say what your prospects of success would be will be difficult as at this stage we dont have the info on if the credit agreement is compliant,was it executed properly, does it contain the required terms

 

also did the default contain the required info etc so you see it is difficult to answer

 

the MOST important thing is that you dont sit around doing nothing.

 

my opinion would be that you are best served sending the letter ben posted

 

If you need any further help please shout

 

Regards

paul

 

 

now the reason why i posted this was because it appeared that womble was being left a little confused by what was being said at the time

 

the fact is i could not see where you were going with your advice either

 

the fact that a default notice contains charges would not prima facie make the notice invalid, there is case law which backs this too.

 

however if the default contains penalty charges this would make a stronger case.

 

however for a penalty to be such it must be disproportionate and not a pre estimate of the parties costs

 

now if northern rock can establish that the charges are a genuine preestimate of their losses they are legal entitled to charge the fee to cover their costs

 

a far stronger defence is no agreement but at the time i posted we were not even in possesion of any facts to establish what womble had been charged nor did we have any of the default notices or letters that they sent

 

i hope this clarifies my position and why i posted what i did

 

regards

paul

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Hi Tomterm

Quite true but who is going to tell them its invalid until defences are accepted and by that time we will be dealing with a invalid CCA no doubt.

Like I always maintain the defence must refute the P.O.C not forewarn them of what we know and give time for them to regroup you being an expert on defences will no doubt agree with this.

 

 

Regards

Andy

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Thanks Paul

I note your comments

 

 

 

Regards

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

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Hi Tomterm

Quite true but who is going to tell them its invalid until defences are accepted and by that time we will be dealing with a invalid CCA no doubt.

Like I always maintain the defence must refute the P.O.C not forewarn them of what we know and give time for them to regroup you being an expert on defences will no doubt agree with this.

 

 

Regards

Andy

 

Andy,

 

Wombles copy of the CCA is http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd235/womble1988/img002.jpg .

 

It does appear basically valid to me, if a bit improperly executed.

 

of course, NR haven't actually provided their copy of the agreement yet.

i will be off site for the next month or so. if you have any problems, feel free to report the post so a moderator can help you.

 

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So now it's a waiting game to see if they send me an orginal agreement.

 

I'm still not clear with how the court procedures are.

 

I am defending the claim so i have until the 8th December for my defence but do i just wait until the court sends me more paperwork about why am i defending?

 

I am confused with how the proceedures will be.

 

Womble

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The easiest way to submit is to do it through MCOL (Money Claim Online), if that is available to you. otherwise, we will help you fill the form in nearer the time.

 

At this stage, I am still not clear whether it would be in your interest to defend or admit part of the debt.

i will be off site for the next month or so. if you have any problems, feel free to report the post so a moderator can help you.

 

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Hi

I would personaly wait until the deadline to submit your proposals .I still dont think you will recieve your CPR request on time and why have Nr Stated they have included your CCA when they quite clearly have not.

You could perhaps work on two defences and edge your bets.

the law is more about mindgames than fact and you maintaining the edge throughout the argument,will provide you not just mentally with scope to proceed

 

You need to ask your self can I turn this round with what I have ie invalid default note which is totally unlawfull to proceed with litigation and the fact that said CCA seems to have gone AWOL.personally I would defend in full but hey thats me and up for the fight

 

 

 

Regards

Andy

 

ps sorry for th e delay withthe response

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Sorry TT8

Missed your post in reply i am in agreement with you but personally dont think NR have one otherwise they would have furnished it

 

 

Regards

Andy

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Hi

....

 

and the fact that said CCA seems to have gone AWOL.personally I would defend in full but hey thats me and up for the fight

 

...

 

Regards

Andy

 

ps sorry for the response

 

Hi, Andy, I don't think you need to be sorry about responding:rolleyes: :D

 

The lack of a CCA, or an enforceable CCA, is always a very strong argument. There are other arguments that are slightly more technical (such as the default notice argument, penalty charges etc) which can work, but in my experience NR in this case will just reduce the claim by £60, and it's then a very hard sell with the judge. not impossible, just hard.

 

There are other routes we can go down, which might end up with a better situation for wombles. Unfortunatly, unlike winning a defence, they would end up with wombles paying back the debt, but without the credit history a CCJ would entail.

 

It's always hard advising in any case, because of course most people would always like to try to win:D but, sometimes, if the cards aren't strong in your favour there can be cost implications of fighting a claim, especially considering this would be fast or multi track.

 

I mean, obviously, if womble wins, they pay, and if we have a strong defence it is worth the risk. I, Paul, and CB are discussing matters behind the scene to try to find such a strong defence. I always tend towards cautious, however, because I don't want to make the situation worse.

i will be off site for the next month or so. if you have any problems, feel free to report the post so a moderator can help you.

 

I am not a qualified or practicing lawyer.

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Alan

you need to log onto MCOL input your case number and the password follow the screens AOS first and then move on to the section you refer to

Three options

Defend

Admit part

Agree

 

Select what you personaly wish to do dont tick C/C at this stage

 

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

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Sorry TT8

Missed your post in reply i am in agreement with you but personally dont think NR have one otherwise they would have furnished it

 

 

Regards

Andy

 

Hi Andy,

 

i've just seen too many court cases recently where the creditor intentionally sends the credit agreement to the court with a nice letter ... possibly prevaricating.... saying that they've sent it to the debtor three times already.

 

i DON'T trust creditors to play fair.

 

TBH, Northern Rock are more professional than most.

 

Tom.

i will be off site for the next month or so. if you have any problems, feel free to report the post so a moderator can help you.

 

I am not a qualified or practicing lawyer.

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I Fully agree Tom with your response only Alan can make that decision

but is in a very more confident position with the help of CAG to determine this

 

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

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Not all claims can be done through MCOL, unfortunatly. We'll help you submit the forms nearer the time, then.

i will be off site for the next month or so. if you have any problems, feel free to report the post so a moderator can help you.

 

I am not a qualified or practicing lawyer.

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Hi Paul,

 

Sorry Paul but what is a poc ?

 

The only thing i have sent so far through the post is

 

Aos to the court in Gateshead to defend the case.

 

And the letter to Wallis solicitors for the cpr.

 

Kind Regards

 

Womble

 

Womble, the N1 is the court form that has the POCs on it

 

you posted a copy with the original docs i do believe

 

regards

paul

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Morning Womble

 

sorry, so used to using the shortened terms poc instead of full term Particulars of Claim.

 

ive just been back over your documents and i see they have not used a standard N1 form to list their particulars of the claim in this case

 

as tom said not all cases have the option to use Mcol, normally if youve got the option the password for Mcol is on the right hand side of the N1 from memory near to the particulars of their claim

 

 

since you dont have a password for Mcol it would appear we are going to have to do everything the old fashioned way and use paper

 

 

still not to worry

 

i hope this clears that up

 

regards

paul

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Morning Paul,

 

Thanks for the quick response.

 

I have a million and one questions running through my head night and day.

 

You must think im a pain in the a*** but i wont be able to afford to go to Gateshead to defend the case but will they rule with me not being there in person.

 

Womble

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