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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Barclaycard


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Hi, I work for Barclaycard and am very happy to dish the dirt. In fact any questions with regards to how the collections side works at Barclaycard i am happy to tell you. post something on here and i will endeavour to give you a response.

 

:-D

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hmm,

 

you'll forgive me if I'm slightly wary happy1970

 

OK here's a question for you, in most instances when Cabot take over a debt from Barclays a letter is received that is supposedly from Barclays notifying the debtor of the notice of assignment, I think we call it 'the goodbye letter' here on CAG, can someone from the Cabot Fan Club please post up a copy. Now it is widely believed that this letter is in fact produced by Cabot and not Barclays, I know some of us have SAR Barclays and found no evidence of this supposed letter. Cabot have neither denied nor confirmed anything. Could you shed some light on the subject? Is it Cabot who create and send these letters, just as we suspect

 

regards,

shane

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Welcome Happy1970,

 

Any input would be very helpful. I suggest you post on the Barclaycard thread as well :

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclaycard/

 

Two things:

1. As a bank worker, forum rules ask that you inform the Forum adminstrators first.

 

2. Even though you are here to help, be prepared for some stick from aggrieved Claimants

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Hello and welcome Happy. It is always nice to have employees of the financial institutions assist us with help and advice but I strongly advise you to be very careful about what you post in an open forum.

BEFORE starting your claim read through the FAQ's and if there's something you aren't sure of then ask.

If you win, donate to this site

Contents of my posts are purely my own personal opinions, some formed by personal experience and some from research. If in doubt seek qualified legal advice.

 

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Okay

I think that first of all I need to explain how barclaycard collections works. first of all they are based in Kirkby in Liverpool. They have currently outsourced work to Delhi hence why you may sometimes get calls from our foreign friends. All accounts are dealt with in cycles ie months behind. they are dealt with up to 6 months by the general staff then up to a further two months on top of that before the debts are sold on.

This is where it gets interesting. Months 1 and 2 are dealt with by Delhi for inbound calls .. ie you call them and for outbound they are dealt with by Kirkby centre ( where you may get a snotty 18 year old that knows nothing about life talking to you as if you were something on teh bottom of their shoes)

Months 3 to 6 goes to Mercers ........... Mercers are Barclaycard.... this is teh biggest joke of all. I could be speaking to you one minute as Barclaycard about one of your accounts and then I could call you about another of your accounts as Mercers...............

With regards to Cabot ... accounts go to them when barclaycard have decided to see off a book /portfolio of debts .. If you get a letter from Cabot it is one that has been printed by them... not Barclaycard. They only print off the ones with the Barclaycard and the Mercers headed paper.

 

Ask me more and I will divulge more ....

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OK, thanks for that Happy, was aware of the charade with regards to Mercers.

 

I have another question, with regard to Barclays using different dept/companies to handle the debt be it mercers, or the contact centre at Kirby etc is there a unified system that all these dept/companies use? By this i mean often we find one dept tries to enforce a debt in clear violation because a CCA request has been sent placing the account in dispute etc. Is it simply Barclays being so unorganized when they breach the oft guidelines on debt collection because 'one hand is doing one thing while the other is doing something completely different' or do they knowingly continue to send dozens of letters and make countless phonecalls in a deliberate attempt to beat the debtor into submission?

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The problem that they have is that this year they decided to close down the manchester customer contact centre, then open two new centres in Delhi to deal with the work that manchester had been doing .... basically to save some money. Their is a massive turnover of staff at the Kirkby centre, what is happening is taht all the good staff that have been their for a long time are leaving because they are being treated like garbage. hence new staff .. poor training and no one signs from teh same book hence you may get someone with a brain who will look at the situation and help as best they can ( few and far between now ) or you will get some child who will basically read from one of the scripts. Not help or advise and basically send you a letter. One the dialling system if no one can get in touch with you ( you may be working / out etc ) they will send you a letter to get in touch. If someone then works that account on a manual queue they may well also send you a letter again having not checked if one has gone out already. They do not queue the accounts properly in a hold queue in fact managers will say at times not to place on hold as they want to " Batter " the calls ( for want of a better word) this is why you may get several calls in the same day.

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Working in collections I'm sure you get your fair share of letters from debtors challenging the legality of the alleged agreements we've been sent in response to a CCA. Recently a document wa leaked from the intranet site of Natwest purporting they would as a creditor reconstruct agreements should they no longer hold them from data already keyed on their systems. i would like to ask what steps Barclays would take in order to attempy to satisfy a CCA request, should they no longer hold the original. You may be aware there are Regulations that allow certain omissions which is what creditors always hide behind in not sending the original. Do barclays send reconstructed agreements or false copies to try and mislead the debtor into the false representation they are legally bound to continue paying the allegled debt?

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First of all working in collections we do not get so see any of the lettersthat customers send in. All teh letters are send to Northampton then forwarded to Kirkby and then a post team read the letters and place a small amount of the information that was in the letter on to the screens for the collectors to read. In Kirkby letters are kept in files , if a letter has gone to customer services with regards to charges they microfiche those... unfortunately as they work on a totally different system than kirkby works on it means that staff at kirkby cannot read any information on their pcs on micro fiche and have to go via customer services for them to read all of the information . Barclays bank do not have anything to do with barclaycard .... they are two divisions and deal with their accounts in seperate ways..I wouldn't know what barclays bank does as have no dealings with the bank itself so can't help you with anything to do with the banks side ... only the credit card side. .

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I do know that they can tidy up information on accounts as have been privvy to seeing this happen on an account that I dealt with a long time ago. Everything in teh memos that had been written on the account was wiped off .. same as they can get amended the information that goes to the credit ref agencies. They just need a verygood reason to do so. Only the priviledged few can do this .... andf i do not necessarily mean the managers as unless the sun shines out of your **** you are not given the codes to do so.

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hi happy1970, kind of you to offer to help.

 

My question is, is there any evidence that Barclaycard are worried in any way about the increase in people exercising their rights under the CCA 1974. I know thanks to the likes of CAG there must have been a huge increase in such cases and if I were a financial institution that took a gamble on over simplified but not compliant agreements I would be worried!

 

Any memo's gone round or specific training in how to deal with this new breed of clued up debtor?

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I do not think that they are worried. thing is that everything is very distorted within barclaycard. all complaints with regards to charges etc are dealt with by the customer services section in delhi. As far as Kirkby centre is concerned "they" feel that they are dealing fairly with customers! Ha Personally I think that it has all gone down the pan in the past few years but that is my view. Anyway. they have the diallers set to call all accounts at least twice a day. Everyday until contact is made and something is resolved on the account. My advice get withheld numbers barred on your landline as they cannot get through via the dialling system on these. They are not interested in the new breed of clued up debtor. they will use threats such as affecting credit rating, will get someone to call at your property ( scotcall is the favourite and my heart goes out to the guys and girls that do this ... what a cr***y job) sell debt on register your account.. etc etc .. they have these new american people dealing with things that are NOT clued up to how debt is in the uk ... the whole cheery american way of doing things makes me vomit ..

What scares them are the people who have teh balls to go to their cab and offer the £1.00 token payment ... If the cab take the account on board Barclaycard do not like it as theyhave to stop the interest.

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Hi Again,

 

Is there any criteria that decides which DCA Barclaycard will use or is it a case of take your pick (After Mercers ofcourse)

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Why when i cca'd Barclaycard did they come back with a request for my signature when they had all the information they needed to identify me from acc no, address etc? they seem to be asking for signature a lot lately?

 

Sytra

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Barclaycard do not like to deal with the cccs or national debtline as it means that they would have to accept in most cases payments of just a £1 a month and that they would have to stop the interest. Remember they want to get interest from you so not in their best interest to deal with cccs or national debtline.

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Barclaycard have a list of about 20 different debt colls agencies that they use .. basically it is the luck of the draw as to who you will get. Also as they sell portfolios of debts it means that a whole lot of accounts get lumped together .... also quite a few of the dcas are one and the same under different names... when I have a moment to spare i'll list them, makes for interesting reading !

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Barclaycard use lots of different agencys at the moment to collect.. basically they are trying different methods so as to collect the bad debt... In all honesty if they were a bit pickier as to who they lent money to or didn't lend so much they wouldn't be in teh position that they are in now !

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Barclaycard have a list of about 20 different debt colls agencies that they use .. basically it is the luck of the draw as to who you will get. Also as they sell portfolios of debts it means that a whole lot of accounts get lumped together .... also quite a few of the dcas are one and the same under different names... when I have a moment to spare i'll list them, makes for interesting reading !

 

 

interesting reading indeed!

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with regards to selling debts and in quantity as portfolio how are the Deed Of Assignments done?

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