Certificate Sent In Error

[mssiah]

What does the law say.I am in debt to a scottish university.Because of a clerical error .I was mistakenLY alllowed to graduate .The university has just discovered it.and has informed me I can use the certificate but they will not provide any reference fOR me.

[GlasweJen]

no one is obliged to provide a reference for anyone I'm afraid.

[tiglet]

They would actually ahve to provide the reference, but it might only be on the lines of "this person attanedd on such and such a date".

 

I wouldn't worry about it, to be honest. you ahve your certificate and if you have a tutor you got on well with, they can provide a personal reference.

[GlasweJen]

yes sorry you're right tiglet. I wrote that post in a hurry, what I meant was pretty much what you said, they can provide a basic reference but they don't have to provide a "proper" reference.

 

Something my university is doing to prevent personal references is refusing to allow any references not requested through registry services. Lecturers are not being allowed to write a reference unless the student has filled in the form to allow the lecturer to write about them and send it on to another company and RS has control over who gets a reference request form. Registry services say this is so that they have a record of who says what about students so that they can comply better with the data protection act (not sure how true this is though).

 

You could always negotiate, would they give a reference if you were paying towards your debt in regular installments?

[mssiah]

Thanks,

 

Am working toward paying the debt and have discussed with the University about this.

 

I wish to know ,is an international student debt add to his credit history or report.

 

Does anyone have an idea.

[mssiah]

How can invoke a Data Protection act for information from the university.

 

Does anyone have an idea on what kind of information I am allowed to ask for.if possible a template.

[tiglet]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/516-1-data-protection-act.html

 

Basically, amend it to suit your situation and they should supply everything they hold on file for you for the last six years.

[mssiah]

THE DPA you sent me is for a bank.

 

I was asking for draft to be sent to university.Why I asked is because I am not clear with what information I am allowed to ask a university to provide.

[tiglet]

Any information they hold on you, basically, which is why I suggested amending for your situation.

[mssiah]

Thanks a lot

[stevokenevo]

They would actually ahve to provide the reference, but it might only be on the lines of "this person attanedd on such and such a date".

 

I wouldn't worry about it, to be honest. you ahve your certificate and if you have a tutor you got on well with, they can provide a personal reference.

 

wether it is an employer or a university, for a member of staff or for a student, no one is obliged to provide anyone with a reference (except in a particular instance.

 

If you want to leave your job you'll probably want a reference. It's good practice for your employer to give one, but they don't have to if your contract doesn't say they have to, except in some regulated industries like financial services.

 

taken from References and job offers : Directgov - Employment

 

and in the case of universitys

 

there is no legal obligation to provide references

 

taken from Guidelines for Writing References - City University London

 

So to address the OPs original point, the uni are within there rights not to provide the reference.

[Hippy-chick]

 

Something my university is doing to prevent personal references is refusing to allow any references not requested through registry services. Lecturers are not being allowed to write a reference unless the student has filled in the form to allow the lecturer to write about them and send it on to another company and RS has control over who gets a reference request form. Registry services say this is so that they have a record of who says what about students so that they can comply better with the data protection act (not sure how true this is though).

 

 

Wow!

 

I think it depends on your university then. At mine we frequently provide references for past students without going through Registry.

 

I guess they have a point about the Data Protection Act, but I suspect this is more an attempt at justification of the practice rather than the reason for it.

 

HC

[GlasweJen]

Allegedly something happened in the past and a student blamed a lecturer for her not getting a job because of a bad reference. The reference was found and it turned out to be a good one, (she just never got the job as she wasn't suited) and registry brought in the new rules to protect lecturers from this type of allegation again (I think the girl was trying to sue the lecturer using libel laws).

[Conniff]

A reference can be refused, but a 'bad' reference is not allowed.

[tiglet]

That was what I was thinking of.

[Conniff]

Of course a refusal could be construde by a prospective employer to have the same meaning as if a bad reference had been given.

[Goldlady]

I have to say that after typing a dissertation for a student many years ago he refused to pay the full bill, after already bartering the price down:mad: - no further comment on that to prevent moderation - I found out that if I contacted the University they would refuse to give his doctorate until he paid me - which was indeed the case.

 

I have given what are called factual references for dodgy people - ie - yes the person did work here between x date and y date. I think a lot of big firms do it now to prevent any potential litigation rather than because they had a problem with the person.

[Hippy-chick]

 

I have given what are called factual references for dodgy people - ie - yes the person did work here between x date and y date. I think a lot of big firms do it now to prevent any potential litigation rather than because they had a problem with the person.

 

Yes. I've done that in the past. My fave was one of my previous line managers who had to write a reference for a really hopeless ex-employee. He wrote it by saying that "X believed himself to be..."

 

Is it against the law to give a bad reference? Or is it just not done because of a worry about litigation? I do hope the latter. As, if somebody is not good at their job it should be possible to state this.

[stevokenevo]

A reference can be refused, but a 'bad' reference is not allowed.

 

What do you mean by a 'bad' reference?

 

Do you mean a negative reference?

[Goldlady]

My understanding is that under the DPA people have a right to see what you said about them and could use a 'bad' reference in a tribunal claim, or otherwise. So the guidance I have had from ACAS and other places is that you either refuse to give a reference at all - which says a great deal - or send a factual reference and refuse to say more.

 

I was caught out once cos the company rang me and caught me completely off guard. We had very strong reasons to believe that the ex employee had stolen from us, but I was not going to say so. However the woman who rang was very perceptive and she said she could tell from my voice that I was not telling her everything!!! I think it was when she asked if we would re-employ this person;)

[Hippy-chick]

What do you mean by a 'bad' reference?

 

Do you mean a negative reference?

 

Yes, that was my question as well.

[mssiah]

Starting up a claim against a university.Is really time wasting.You have to conclude the University internal procedure.Before you can refer the case to the court or to the Ombudsman.IT could take ages.

 

Yes I do agree that a reference is not a legal Obligation.But I do not see anything wrong in saying the truth about a previous employee or student.If he has a bad record .Concealing it ,is not the best.

[Conniff]

What do you mean by a 'bad' reference?

 

Do you mean a negative reference?

 

Yes a negative. Not allowed to do it.

[Hippy-chick]

Yes a negative. Not allowed to do it.

 

Hi Conniff

 

Do you happen to know where this is written?

 

Just interested, really. I can see lots of good reasons (as per goldlady) for not doing it, but would be interested in knowing exactly which bit of legislation prohibits it.

 

Tx

 

HC

[Goldlady]

Interesting question HC, which I cannot answer, but hopefully someone else can. It seems wrong that you cannot warn potential employers about someone, and indeed I believe that they could claim against you as well if you knew the person was, for example, a thief, and didn't tell them. But all the advice you get from employers organisations and the like is just don't give a reference at all if you have any problem with the person.