Account history info required!

[gjkendall]

Bit of a long story this, but I'll try to be brief...

 

My father in law has had a stroke and has sadly been left in a state that means he cannot run his account properly...this has meant that some low life family mambers are starting to take liberties. My mother in law, is somewhat old school in her thinking, and trusts everyone (her husband was the one that controlled the money). My sister in law has somehow put herslef in a position where she now controls the money (she is awful with money and has massive debts). She should not be in control of the card! Since she has been in control, they seem to of had lots of holidays, buying loads of clothes etc etc. She has just gone on another holiday and has apperently left my father in laws card in her locked house (we reckon she has taken the card with her)..leaving my parent in law with a scrap of paper with the card number on.

 

Is there any way that myself or my wife can get the last few years bank statements to try and prove to my mother in law that she and her husband are being fleeced?

 

My mother in law is so trusting she really does believe that she is being paid back for any monies that are taken. (well, the money that she is aware of being taken anyway).

 

There is another family member that claims he paid a large cash amount into the account two years ago, but there is no prove that we are aware of, that he has done this. So another reason we would like to see the statement!

 

Is there anything we can do to try and stop this?

[rory32]

Does your sister in law (or anyone else for that matter) have power of attorney over your father in laws affairs? If your mother in law has power of attorney she can send a SAR to get statements for the history of the account.

[gjkendall]

Does your sister in law (or anyone else for that matter) have power of attorney over your father in laws affairs? If your mother in law has power of attorney she can send a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to get statements for the history of the account.

 

No one has Power of Attorney...does that mean we have fallen at the first fence?

 

Looks like I am going to have a wade in without any hard proof!

[buzby]

You don't state how badly your FiL has been affected, but he is clearly in need of a Guardian to look after his affairs, and that person will be able to obtain these statements as formal paperwork is completed.

 

If you want to pre-empt this, you could advise the bank that you believe your FiL card is being misused and that family members may be responsible. This will allow them to cancel the card and block other debits until security is re-established.

 

If you have a family solicitor go to them for advice, or take a look here:

 

Home - Office of the Public Guardian

[gjkendall]

Yes he clearly does need a Guardian...the SIL has taken it on herself to take this position. The SIL was also the one who poo pooed the POA option, when it was first mentioned. She would not of been the one chosen.

 

My wife is somewhat hesitant to report "mis-use" as she does not have 100% proof that this is going on (although it almost certainly is).

[buzby]

She doesn't need to even suspect foul play with her father's affairs - she's simply ensuring his affairs will be effectively managed in his twilight years. Having a card access to the account can be a useful stop-gap, but a veritable minefield should he die and probate is to be obtained. I could hit the fan big time. A POA at least is open to scrutiny and protects everyone involved.

 

As for the bank - again, the misuse claim can be modified somewhat that will require the revalidation of security on the account. If the signatures don't match or there is anything underhand going on to force the issue of validation it becomes a criminal offence, rather than just 'borrowing' the card that exists.

[installspark]

Without a third party authorization or POA registered with the bank it will be difficult to obtain any information about the account but not impossible.

 

First step will be to notify the bank about FIL's mental incapacity, the bank should then stop all debit activity on the account until such time that the bank's investigations prove one way or another FIL's ability to run the account. Previous account spending patterns will be looked at as part of this process.

 

Another way would be to get the police involved and report your suspicions to them, this however does have it's own set of problems. The banks will still make it difficult to obtain the information required even though they have police liaison teams, and there can be no guarantee of any criminal prosecution. The other aspect to consider before going down this route is impact on family relationships.

 

In the absence of a criminal prosecution it would then become a civil matter between you, the family member(s) concerned and the bank. This will become a long and drawn out process, but is not insurmountable provided you have a lot of patience and are prepared to fight against the bank.

 

I wish you the best in what you decide to do.

[johnhowell]

If your FinL has sadly become mental incapable of looking after his affairs then any ordinary PoA will become void. An Enduring PoA (before 1 Oct 2007) or Lasting PoA (post 1 Oct 2007) will be required. To get these approved all near family members would be contacted for comment on the assignment of the attorneys (usually two - jointly and severally).

 

If neither of these exist then the Guardianship Agency (previously the Court of Protection) would step in and assign an Attorney, but control the dealing of the estate.

 

However, with a living spouse (MinL) that is mentally capable financial institutions will deal with them for joint accounts. I am not sure for personal non-joint accounts, but they probably would deal with the still-capable spouse. Your other family members are probably just helping her to deal with these institutions.

 

The attorneys are only able to deal with the estate on behalf of the donor (FinL). However, limited Gifts are allowed under strict rules. If you feel that the other family members are abusing the system then contact the Guardianship Agency, social services, police to see who can help.

 

You will need real evidence of wrong doing, rather than just because you are left out in the cold - sorry to sound unfeeling but most cases are just misunderstandings and sore grapes.

 

Good luck and do let us know how you get on,

John

[installspark]

If an enduring POA or a lasting POA exists, it is still possible that these may be void on a technicality.

 

Further to that read the bank's own T&C in relation to mental incapability and suspicion of fraudulent transactions.

 

9.3.1 Our liability

We will be responsible for any money lost due to

unauthorised transaction(s) unless you are liable under

clause 9.3.2. We will add back to your account any amount

deducted including any related interest (if applicable) and

charges. We will have no further liability to you.

 

10.3.2 If instructions are not actually given by you or with your

authority, unless clause 10.3.3 applies, we will refund the

amount of the unauthorised transaction including any

related interest (if applicable) and charges. We will have no

further responsibility to you.

 

10.3.5 We may refuse to carry out any instruction which involves a

transaction exceeding a particular value or if we feel there

is a reason to do so, such as a suspected breach of security.

We will tell you about this.

 

Taken from a well known banks T&C.

 

The bank has a duty of care under their own T&C to your FIL, and whilst no bank will give specific details of their own fraud prevention policies they do exist and it may be possible to claim any unauthorized transactions back from the bank. However you will need to deal with the bank at senior management level and with their fraud investigation department, which in itself is no easy task.