Template letter for SORN fines

[patdavies]

This is a civil offence and therefore goes to County Court not Magistrates. Therefore, they have 6 years to pursue the debt and take to Court.

 

Rubbish, see the other thread.

[nehpets]

Mine went to County Court and the DJ went in DVLA favour.

 

In my honest opinion, I would like people to understand that it does NOT always go in your favour rather than the DVLA.

 

Everyone on here saying let them take you to Court and you can slap them down and put in them in their place needs to be aware that they may be setting people up for a fall. Its down to the DJ on the day, I also went down the road that I made an off road notification but without an acknowledgement letter the DJ could not find in my favour.

 

Please understand there is NO guarantee you will win - more like 50/50 chance and with that in mind, the choice is yours.

 

 

Obviously there is a risk in going to court with any case.

In your case you mention that the judge asked you for a conformation slip. This implies that you presented your case badly. It is possible to lead the DVLA into admitting that the legislation does not require that you have such a conformation. Instead the legislation simply specifies that you must “notify” them. If the DVLA accused you of not having the conformation then you should have asked the judge to ask the Plaintiff to specify the particular part of the law which states that, i) you should receive a conformation slip which you must retain, and ii) what you must do if you do not receive such a conformation slip. The Plaintiff would have to admit that not such law existed. You could then state that you have fulfilled your obligation by simply sending in the form since that is all that the law requires. You could then highlight this with the Interpretation Act specifying that you sent the forms by post etc. Ultimately the idea is to leave the DVLA in a position where they have to admit that they cannot prove that you didn’t carry out your obligation as actually specified in law.

[Lifesontheup]

Rubbish, see the other thread.

 

Having been to COUNTY Court on this I can assure you that you are wrong. Please get your facts straight before telling people its Magistrates.

 

Once again this is a DEBT which is a civil matter and as such does not get dealt with by Magistrates but by County Court.

[Lifesontheup]

Obviously there is a risk in going to court with any case.

 

In your case you mention that the judge asked you for a conformation slip. This implies that you presented your case badly. It is possible to lead the DVLA into admitting that the legislation does not require that you have such a conformation. Instead the legislation simply specifies that you must “notify” them. If the DVLA accused you of not having the conformation then you should have asked the judge to ask the Plaintiff to specify the particular part of the law which states that, i) you should receive a conformation slip which you must retain, and ii) what you must do if you do not receive such a conformation slip. The Plaintiff would have to admit that not such law existed. You could then state that you have fulfilled your obligation by simply sending in the form since that is all that the law requires. You could then highlight this with the Interpretation Act specifying that you sent the forms by post etc. Ultimately the idea is to leave the DVLA in a position where they have to admit that they cannot prove that you didn’t carry out your obligation as actually specified in law.

 

Tried it all, not a case of presenting badly, in fact my father was a solicitor until he retired. As I said before, its a risk you take, and at the end of the day you are reliant on the DJ deciding - if the DJ believes you should have made sure you chased your off road notification that is it and no amount of arguing will deter them. I raised the point it wasn't in law but the DJ explained that as the DVLA provide acknowledgement letters to ensure that the paperwork has been received, I was at fault for not chasing it up.

 

Its 50/50 so I want people to know this before going. Not to scare monger but to advise that it isn't as simple and easy to win like some would lead us to believe.

[patdavies]

Having been to COUNTY Court on this I can assure you that you are wrong. Please get your facts straight before telling people its Magistrates.

 

Once again this is a DEBT which is a civil matter and as such does not get dealt with by Magistrates but by County Court.

 

I have got my facts straight and I have quoted the relevant law in another thread; having a non-exempt vehicle on the public highway without VED is a criminal offence.

 

DVLA are not like parking - there is no de-criminalised regime.

 

Perhaps if you are so certain, you could post up and anonymised copy of your county court summons, thus proving that it was dealt with as a debt.

[Lifesontheup]

I have got my facts straight and I have quoted the relevant law in another thread; having a non-exempt vehicle on the public highway without VED is a criminal offence.

 

DVLA are not like parking - there is no de-criminalised regime.

 

Perhaps if you are so certain, you could post up and anonymised copy of your county court summons, thus proving that it was dealt with as a debt.

 

I have replied on the other thread to back up what I am saying. This is not a VED offence this is entirely different and a civil offence. Do some searches on the internet under Continuous Registration and County Court and you will see that it is a County Court summons that is issued not one by a Magistrates Court.

 

There is even a hansard response on there somewhere which confirms that the DVLA have issued County Court action on these cases resulting in CCJs. Its not a case of being parked unlicensed its an entirely different matter.

 

Do some research before telling me I am spouting rubbish.

[patdavies]

I have replied on the other thread to back up what I am saying. This is not a VED offence this is entirely different and a civil offence. Do some searches on the internet under Continuous Registration and County Court and you will see that it is a County Court summons that is issued not one by a Magistrates Court.

 

There is even a hansard response on there somewhere which confirms that the DVLA have issued County Court action on these cases resulting in CCJs. Its not a case of being parked unlicensed its an entirely different matter.

 

Do some research before telling me I am spouting rubbish.

 

I have done some further research and posted the results on another thread.

 

What perhaps confused me was you posting this on threads concerning SORN and lack of acknowledgement - where s.7A of VERA doesn't properly apply, but s.7 does - which remains a criminal court matter.

[Archie MacFee]

OK, so I get a weird voice text thingy, telling me to phone a particular debt collection agency about a fine. What fine? No idea. So I phone the number, and it appears that the DVLA have fined me for not renewing SORN on a car that I sold almost a year ago! The SORN did overrun, because I didn't realise I had to renew it. (Surely once you've declared a vehicle 'off road', that should be it until you declare it 'on the road'??) Anyway, apparently they sent the fine originally to my old address. So far, I have nothing in writing from DVLA to confirm the fine, though I now have a letter this morning from the DCA threatening me with action for ignoring letters from the DVLA. I see from earlier in the thread what to write to the DCA, but not sure how to approach the DVLA on this.

 

 

Any advice appreciated.

[letshelp]

(Surely once you've declared a vehicle 'off road', that should be it until you declare it 'on the road'??) .

That would seem the common sense approach, but of course there would be no money from fines in that system, so sadly you have to renew each year, whereby they hope you miss a year then they can slap you with a fine.

regards

[Archie MacFee]

Sometimes you just wish we were a bit more like the French - get out on streets and burn a few tyres now and then!

[Wig]

As this is a summary offence dealt with at Magistrates' Court, information must be laid before the Court for the issue of a summons within 6 months.

 

So I doubt that they will take the matter to Court

 

Of course, the other (unspoken) issue for DVLA is if they take you to Court and you lose, any fine goes to the Treasury and not DVLA

 

It is my understanding that there is no offence involved here and the supplemental charge is a debt not a fine. So will not be heard in a magistrates, nor would the 6 months rule apply. It would be dealt with in a civil court and the 6 year rule would presumably apply.

 

Ahh, on reading a few of the more recent posts on this thread someone else has already pulled you up on this. The relevant law is VERA 1994 section 7A where it quite clearly states that it is a "supplement" "to be collected as debt". How many debt collections do you know of that are done in the mags criminal court?

Edited December 1, 2009 by Wig

[Wig]

I have done some further research and posted the results on another thread.

 

What perhaps confused me was you posting this on threads concerning SORN and lack of acknowledgement - where s.7A of VERA doesn't properly apply, but s.7 does - which remains a criminal court matter.

 

Is that you saying - without actually saying it - that you were wrong on this and you offered your apologies?

[siterly]

Hi guys,

I need a considered opinion.

Bought a car in October this year that needed some repairs - brakes. Completed and sent new owner details and sorn to DVLA.

Car was kept off road until mechanic came to collect with tow-truck. Moved car onto the road, infront of my cafe, to allow tow-truck access to hitch up my car. It was whilist waiting for the truck to arrive (maybe 15 - 20 minutes) that I was reported for not having road fund licence. Received £78 fine about two weeks ago. Wrote a letter in mitigation to DVLA mentoning the aforementioned but my efforts were rejected. Phoned DVLA today- lady sympathised with my situation but said it's a case of wrong place wrong time, the car was on a public road without a valid vehicle tax.

 

Do I have a reasonable enough case to have the case heard in the magistrates court (may incur costs etc if I lose) or should I just accept the fine?

 

Thanks for reading.

[letshelp]

Hi Siterley,

 

If you lose at the mags you will get hammered for costs, I would take it on the chin as the cheapest option.

regards

[simonmcl]

The DVLA has a left hand which does not know what the right hand is doing. I recently SORNd a vehicle at my local DVLA office, got a receipt for it and still managed to get a fine. When I pointed out that I did it in the office and got a receipt they told me that this was not acceptable as evidence that they had been informed correctly. A few weeks later I got a letter from the DVLA stating that my vehicle had been SORNd but ALL the wrong details on it. It turned out that I had been sent details of a man in Liverpool who SORNd his motorbike in December. I rung the DVLA and told them what happened, they used the old chestnut of Data Protection and would not talk to me about it even though I gave them all the info off the letter they sent. When I asked why I had got a letter stating the details of another persons vehicle I was told that I must have a similar name/reg/address. When I pointed out that the name was completely different, the reg completely different and the towns nearly 100 miles apart, the excuse was oh it must have been a computer glitch. Despite knowing that their computer system is severely flawed they still insist on saying that I would have to pay. After I spoke to a manager they agreed that an error had been made. Keep on at them and dont speak to the people on the phones as they are only Capita semi trained monkeys and read off scripts, ask to speak to someone who actually knows what they are talking about.

[mccrowlie]

Hi there.

 

Is there anybody in the know still active upon this thread ??

 

 

Just wondering if anything has changed since anybody last sent in this template ??

 

May have to use it soon as apparently the DVLA have been on the prowl on my little "back" road and have quite possibly clocked my un-driveable, project Capri which is not taxed and is parked on a very quiet, only access to residents, "back" road. I have yet to receive my V5 document or a tax/SORN reminder since buying the car in january of this year and so am unable to tax or declare this vehicle SORN.

 

I live in a very quiet country village pretty much in the middle of nowhere which points to me that somebody has possibly reported my vehicle as un-taxed.

 

 

Any help much appreciated.

[willy2006]

I asked my local garage to sell my van mid November last year.The vanranout of tax November 2009 but I didnt receive anything till I got £80 fine in February 2010 for not making a Sorn.I had never heard of this before so explained the vehicle was at a garage to which i got a sorn notice only from when i sent the letter off.I then got a letter saying i would be taken to court by an office in Leeds.I sent nasty letter of my own saying i had reported them to North Yorks police for extortion and demanding monies with menaces,also i had no right of appeal which was breaking my human rights.I got a letter saying i would hear no more,if this helps anyone than good luck:p:p:p