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    • Thank-you dx, What you have written is certainly helpful to my understanding. The only thing I would say, what I found to be most worrying and led me to start this discussion is, I believe the judge did not merely admonish the defendant in the case in question, but used that point to dismiss the case in the claimants favour. To me, and I don't have your experience or knowledge, that is somewhat troubling. Again, the caveat being that we don't know exactly what went on but I think we can infer the reason for the judgement. Thank-you for your feedback.
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    • the claimant in their WS can refer to whatever previous CC judgements they like, as we do in our WS's, but CC judgements do not set a legal precedence. however, they do often refer to judgements like Bevis, those cases do created a precedence as they were court of appeal rulings. as for if the defendant, prior to the raising of a claim, dobbed themselves in as the driver in writing during any appeal to the PPC, i don't think we've seen one case whereby the claimant referred to such in their WS.. ?? but they certainly typically include said appeal letters in their exhibits. i certainly dont think it's a good idea to 'remind' them of such at the defence stage, even if the defendant did admit such in a written appeal. i would further go as far to say, that could be even more damaging to the whole case than a judge admonishing a defendant for not appealing to the PPC in the 1st place. it sort of blows the defendant out the water before the judge reads anything else. dx  
    • Hi LFI, Your knowledge in this area is greater than I could possibly hope to have and as such I appreciate your feedback. I'm not sure that I agree the reason why a barrister would say that, only to get new customers, I'm sure he must have had professional experience in this area that qualifies him to make that point. 🙂 In your point 1 you mention: 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver. I understand the point you are making but I was referring to when the keeper is also the driver and admits it later and only in this circumstance, but I understand what you are saying. I take on board the issues you raise in point 2. Is it possible that a PPC (claimant) could refer back to the case above as proof that the motorist should have appealed, like they refer back to other cases? Thanks once again for the feedback.
    • Well barristers would say that in the hope that motorists would go to them for advice -obviously paid advice.  The problem with appealing is at least twofold. 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver.  And in a lot of cases the last thing the keeper wants when they are also the driver is that the parking company knows that. It makes it so much easier for them as the majority  of Judges do not accept that the keeper and the driver are the same person for obvious reasons. Often they are not the same person especially when it is a family car where the husband, wife and children are all insured to drive the same car. On top of that  just about every person who has a valid insurance policy is able to drive another person's vehicle. So there are many possibilities and it should be up to the parking company to prove it to some extent.  Most parking company's do not accept appeals under virtually any circumstances. But insist that you carry on and appeal to their so called impartial jury who are often anything but impartial. By turning down that second appeal, many motorists pay up because they don't know enough about PoFA to argue with those decisions which brings us to the second problem. 2] the major parking companies are mostly unscrupulous, lying cheating scrotes. So when you appeal and your reasons look as if they would have merit in Court, they then go about  concocting a Witness Statement to debunk that challenge. We feel that by leaving what we think are the strongest arguments to our Member's Witness Statements, it leaves insufficient time to be thwarted with their lies etc. And when the motorists defence is good enough to win, it should win regardless of when it is first produced.   
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
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30 Day Right to Return Refused (Car)


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Hi guys,

 

I bought a used car last week that was described as a 'superb example' with absolutely no mechanical issues.

 

The same day, on the way home from the garage, the engine was misfiring. It was diagnosed by a mechanic two days later and a report written. I agreed to return the car for repair having initially been refused a refund - a 100 mile journey. 20 miles into the journey the car was misfiring constantly - vibrating/shuddering. It did not feel safe to drive.

 

I called the dealer and stated that I would like to return the car for a full refund, as we have suffered enough additional expense and stress. He refused and told me that he would not accept the car and that I was not to bring it to his garage.

 

The car is on my drive and has not been used since being diagnosed with the fault 2 days after purchase. A letter in advance of action was sent two days ago with no reply.

 

My question is this, do I have to physically return the car within the 30 day period? Or is it enough to have put it in writing that I am rejecting the car?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

J.

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Given what the Garage stated I would put it in writing first with reasons and quoting the relevant legislation (CRA2015) before making an 100 mile trip.

 

It is the dealer’s obligation to collect the vehicle, unless your sales contract includes a clause obliging you to return the car. You only have to make sure the car is available to collect.

 

You are entitled to a full refund by the same method in which you paid for the car. The dealer cannot charge for usage, wear and tear, collection of the vehicle or anything else.

 

You do not have to accept a repair or replacement vehicle (although you can if you want to).

 

Andy

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From experience I would suggest you keep a written log of every event in relation to this situation. Including absolutely all costs associated (You may need it later).

 

Try only to communicate with the trader in writing. So there is a crystal clear trail of the dialogue.

 

Try and keep a copy of the original car advert/details.

 

If you paid for any part of the purchase with a credit card (£100 or more in most cases). Contact your issuing bank, as you may be entitled to a claim under Section 75.

 

Check the CRA 2015, Section 20 (7 & 8 ) In particular. ( https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/20 )

and also look through the "Explanatory Notes" Tab on the same page. This explains your rights and what the law says should happen. However, try to be realistic, the trader probably knows this, and if he's taken this stance already, you need to consider whether you are prepared to fight it through the courts or walk away with a loss.

 

If you can give us more detail of car, age, any terms given to you e.g. warranty, fault found, cost/likely repair cost, payment etc you can get more specific advice.

 

It may be economically repairable?

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  • 3 weeks later...

Thanks to you both for the advice.

 

Sorry about the late reply, but I've been on holiday for two weeks.

 

I've had two garages confirm the misfire. One of them wrote me a quote for the work, which comes to £600 + vat for a new injector. The report also states that the glow plugs are faulty.

 

The first garage confirmed the misfire and commented that the clutch will need to be replaced soon.

The garage offered to repair the misfire, but I have no faith in them, given our exchanges and the fact that they sold me a faulty car and that they say it is a cheap fix with no paperwork required, despite not having inspected the car.

 

It is a 2005 Touran with 90000 miles.

The car has not been driven since the fault was first diagnosed, 4 days post purchase, apart from the travelling to the garage for inspection.

 

I have rejected in writing several times with replies.

Repair offered but no refund.

 

They do not respond when I say that the car is available for collection, but simply state they will collect, repair and return to me.

The garage say that I have no grounds for rejection.

 

When I asked at the outset (if I accepted a repair) if they could provide paperwork detailing the repair, I was told that wasn't an option, as it didn't work that way and no invoice would be produced.

 

Everything has been documented including my rejection request on more than one occasion.

They were also sent a Letter Before Action.

 

I have the original advert- 'Superb Example' etc.

Also, I have kept all written correspondence between myself and the garage together with text messages and a written account of our exchanges.

 

In summary, I had an extended conversation with the dealer about recent bad luck purchasing cars.

He stated that the car was in superb condition with no mechanical issues.

He then sold me a faulty car and I would like a refund.

 

I am planning to issue the claim tomorrow.

Does anyone have any advice?

What should I include in the claim?

I plan to send the garage all documents in the POC.

Does this sound reasonable?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

J.

Edited by dx100uk
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Edit to last post in the interests of clarity - typo. First inspection was 2/3 days post purchase.

 

Car bought on Tuesday.

Vibrated/Shuddered twice on way home.

I have no experience of misfiring cars so thought it may need a run.

 

Wife drove on Wednesday around town.

We booked in for timing belt change at local garage on the Friday.

 

I met my wife at the garage on Thursday afternoon to drop the car off.

She said the car was shuddering and she thought it was going to stall in 6th gear.

Mechanic road tested car on Thursday, immediately diagnosing misfire.

He inspected the car and produced a report on the Friday.

 

The car has since been to a local VW specialist who found a faulty injector and all 4 glow plugs.

Otherwise, the car has been parked on our drive, unused.

Edited by dx100uk
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