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    • S13 (2)The creditor may not exercise the right under paragraph 4 to recover from the keeper any unpaid parking charges specified in the notice to keeper if, within the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which that notice was given, the creditor is given— (a)a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement; (b)a copy of the hire agreement; and (c)a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement. As  Arval has complied with the above they cannot be pursued by EC----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- S14 [1]   the creditor may recover those charges (so far as they remain unpaid) from the hirer. (2)The conditions are that— (a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper; (b)a period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given has elapsed;  As ECP did not send copies of the documents to your company and they have given 28 days instead of 21 days they have failed to comply with  the Act so you and your Company are absolved from paying. That is not to say that they won't continue asking to be paid as they do not have the faintest idea how PoFA works. 
    • Euro have got a lot wrong and have failed to comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4.  According to Section 13 after ECP have written to Arval they should then send a NTH to the Hirer  which they have done.This eliminates Arval from any further pursuit by ECP. When they wrote to your company they should have sent copies of everything that they asked Arval for. This is to prove that your company agree what happened on the day of the breach. If ECP then comply with the Act they are allowed to pursue the hirer. If they fail, to comply they cannot make the hirer pay. They can pursue until they are blue in the face but the Hirer is not lawfully required to pay them and if it went to Court ECP would lose. Your company could say who was driving but the only person that can be pursued is the Hirer, there does not appear to be an extension for a driver to be pursued. Even if there was, because ECP have failed miserably to comply with the Act  they still have no chance of winning in Court. Here are the relevant Hire sections from the Act below.
    • Thank-you FTMDave for your feedback. May I take this opportunity to say that after reading numerous threads to which you are a contributor, I have great admiration for you. You really do go above and beyond in your efforts to help other people. The time you put in to help, in particular with witness statements is incredible. I am also impressed by the way in which you will defer to others with more experience should there be a particular point that you are not 100% clear on and return with answers or advice that you have sought. I wish I had the ability to help others as you do. There is another forum expert that I must also thank for his time and patience answering my questions and allowing me to come to a “penny drops” moment on one particular issue. I believe he has helped me immensely to understand and to strengthen my own case. I shall not mention who it is here at the moment just in case he would rather I didn't but I greatly appreciate the time he took working through that issue with me. I spent 20+ years of working in an industry that rules and regulations had to be strictly adhered to, indeed, exams had to be taken in order that one had to become qualified in those rules and regulations in order to carry out the duties of the post. In a way, such things as PoFA 2012 are rules and regulations that are not completely alien to me. It has been very enjoyable for me to learn these regulations and the law surrounding them. I wish I had found this forum years ago. I admit that perhaps I had been too keen to express my opinions given that I am still in the learning process. After a suitable period in this industry I became Qualified to teach the rules and regulations and I always said to those I taught that there is no such thing as a stupid question. If opinions, theories and observations are put forward, discussion can take place and as long as the result is that the student is able to clearly see where they went wrong and got to that moment where the penny drops then that is a valuable learning experience. No matter how experienced one is, there is always something to learn and if I did not know the answer to a question, I would say, I don't know the answer to that question but I will go and find out what the answer is. In any posts I have made, I have stated, “unless I am wrong” or “as far as I can see” awaiting a response telling me what I got wrong, if it was wrong. If I am wrong I am only too happy to admit it and take it as a valuable learning experience. I take the point that perhaps I should not post on other peoples threads and I shall refrain from doing so going forward. 🤐 As alluded to, circumstances can change, FTMDave made the following point that it had been boasted that no Caggers, over two years, who had sent a PPC the wrong registration snotty letter, had even been taken to court, let alone lost a court hearing .... but now they have. I too used the word "seemed" because it is true, we haven't had all the details. After perusing this forum I believe certain advice changed here after the Beavis case, I could be wrong but that is what I seem to remember reading. Could it be that after winning the above case in question, a claimant could refer back to this case and claim that a defendant had not made use of the appeal process, therefore allowing the claimant to win? Again, in this instance only, I do not know what is to be gained by not making an appeal or concealing the identity of the driver, especially if it is later admitted that the defendant was the driver and was the one to input the incorrect VRN in error. So far no one has educated me as to the reason why. But, of course, when making an appeal, it should be worded carefully so that an error in the appeal process cannot be referred back to. I thought long and hard about whether or not to post here but I wanted to bring up this point for discussion. Yes, I admit I have limited knowledge, but does that mean I should have kept silent? After I posted that I moved away from this forum slightly to find other avenues to increase my knowledge. I bought a law book and am now following certain lawyers on Youtube in the hope of arming myself with enough ammunition to use in my own case. In one video titled “7 Reasons You Will LOSE Your Court Case (and how to avoid them)” by Black Belt Barrister I believe he makes my point by saying the following, and I quote: “If you ignore the complaint in the first instance and it does eventually end up in court then it's going to look bad that you didn't co-operate in the first place. The court is not going to look kindly on you simply ignoring the company and not, let's say, availing yourself of any kind of appeal opportunities, particularly if we are talking about parking charge notices and things like that.” This point makes me think that, it is not such a bizarre judgement in the end. Only in the case of having proof of payment and inputting an incorrect VRN .... could it be worthwhile making a carefully worded appeal in the first instance? .... If the appeal fails, depending on the reason, surely this could only help if it went to court? As always, any feedback gratefully received.
    • To which official body does one make a formal complaint about a LPA fixed charge receiver? Does one make a complaint first to the company employing the appointed individuals?    Or can one complain immediately to an official body, such as nara?    I've tried researching but there doesn't seem a very clear route on how to legally hold them to account for wrongful behaviour.  It seems frustratingly complicated because they are considered to be officers of the court and held in high esteem - and the borrower is deemed liable for their actions.  Yet what does the borrower do when disclosure shows clear evidence of wrong-doing? Does anyone have any pointers please?
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

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      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Cabot/Ruthbridge letter old citi card debt


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Sorry guys, i took the lazy approach and ignored everything again.

 

I have received nothing for a long time and then suddenly a letter from Cabot saying they are

passing my debt to Ruthbridge, a debt collection agency. In the same envelope (is money too

tight to post 2 letters?) A letter from Ruthbridge saying to contact them.

 

I had a message on my answerphone..

 

This is a call for (silence) Please contact us using your reference. Thats it. I googled the number

to see Ruthbridge mentioned.

 

This is a Citi card debt with the last payment in 2006. So long past being statute barred.

 

Its time to move on now and put a stop to these letters dragging up a period i would rather

forget. Will they stop or will they write forever?

 

Thank you. PS i know i am a pain the the bottom and so lazy when it comes to dealing

with these people but its time to do something. (if possible)

 

PS. Do i phone, email or write to them?

 

Thanks

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Send the sb letter so they're in no doubt. Otherwise Cabot may try and continue chasing. Once they receive it they're obliged to take note and not chase it

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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fca conc rules

 

see the debt collection section of our library for the letter

 

just remember in E+W a statute barred debt still exists and they can ask for payment

you can equally ask them to go away

they cant threaten court mind

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Nope. Once you notify them of a true SB stautus, they must mark their files accordingly and stop chasing.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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go read our sb letter its all in there

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks.

I really must stop being so lazy.

 

Although i read something the other day,

someone had been paying a token amount to a debt collector for many many years and the debt has increased and increased.

 

Someone told them it would be statute barred after 6 years,

but they were quite upset to be told no

because you're still paying them.

 

So glad i looked into this and i am not in that situation.

 

Time to move on Thanks again.

No more credit...

Want it now.

Pay for it now.

 

Thanks all.

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Persistent little so and so's. Heard nothing for years and now a call virtually every day.

 

Wife answered a call today with a local number, do they have offices all over or do they have

batch numbers they use from a call centre?

 

Caller was arrogant and sounded threatening she said "I NEED and I WANT to speak to (My Name)".

 

Must remember to try and record them if they call and i answer.

 

Re: the SB letter. I dont need the without prejudice do I? Not admitting to anything new which could have reset

the SB clock. No payments since Aug 2006. Although i thought it was later.

 

Do i change the number of years or just leave it at over 6?

 

7.15.4 applies to me mostly. I have not spoken to them since at least Sept 2006 never mind admitted

anything to them.

 

Do i still put 7.15.8 in ? even though i have not actually conveyed this to them? I chose the ignore

until they give up.

 

I wonder how many other accounts they have of mine? Would i need to do this to any other letters

with different account numbers? Or should this give them warning im not interested?

 

Thanks.

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they use spoofing programs [like skype call] that can portray any number they like that they are calling from

typically we find once these tactics are employed

they already well know its totally dead in the water.

 

 

it could actually be quite interesting to answer them and record the call

because if they start threatening things like court and bailiffs the FCA will eat them for breakfast as the debt is tatute barred.

 

 

I wouldn't be adapting the letter at all IMHO.

just send it.

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Is the local number a ruse to get those that know the 013 numbers are mostly debt collectors

and to ignore it where a local call maybe answered?

 

Or to make me think they have a local office and worry i will get a knock on the door?

 

I wonder if they will play the you paid us ££ on (date within 6 years) so its not

statute barred?

 

So just send the letter as it and not modify it at all? Will do that,.

 

Thanks

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many people have phones/trucall that allows passthru of all calls from local exchanges

 

 

so they get thru

means nothing really.

 

 

send our sb letter

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I personally wouldn't even acknowledge Ruthbridge..once Caboot pass it to the next desk (Ruthbridge) you can be assured its coming to the end of the cycle.

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group - The National Consumer Service

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

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Andy, if it was just me then they can call as much as they like. I have a call blocker which is probably

stuffed with their phone numbers over the years.

 

If i do actually pickup then they wont get far with me.

But the wife worries and will always think they can come in and take everything.

 

LATE EDIT:

For the cost of a stamp, it may put a stop to them.

 

Its been a long time now,

and i have probably mentioned when it first happened we didnt know what would/could happen.

 

Phone calls at all hours of the day and night,

text messages to the house phone which came through at midnight and then repeated if you didnt pickup within a couple of hours.

 

Cards received with a stamp saying we have a parcel and call to redeliver.

 

The email address i used for banking was then suddenly hit with a ton of SPAM,

Websites offering cheap TVs etc.

Registered to someone that worked at one of the debt companies.. Coicidence?

I think not.. Chinese guy?

 

I had letters from virtually all the debt companies...

 

Thanks everyone.

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and if they really could they'd issue a claim......

I doubt they are behind any of the other stuff you claim...

 

simply the fear the portray to debtors ....

 

time to wise up the mrs and get complaining to the ICO/FCA/FOS etc

 

no good sitting upon evidence that they are causing harassment....

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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100% true on the adverts for big screen TVs at discount prices, this was back in 2007 ish when they were

always doing naughty things like posting little white cards saying you missed a parcel and to call

to arrange redelivery. Yet it had a stamp in it. Someone did mention which company that was

likely to be. Something logistics?

 

I know i have jumped the gun a bit on some unknown phone numbers. But i am 101% sure that the

website offering cheap goods was registered to the same person working at one of the debt collection

companies. Fairly sure it was a Chinese name. Anyone remember a chinese guy working work

a debt collection company. Vaugue memory that the company being London based but the domain

registered more towards Devon?

 

The guy had also setup his own debt company, or another company with him named on it.

 

If it was just general spam then i totally agree, but the only link to the email was my CC bills and

my ISP. And that doesnt explain the website being registered to the same name of the guy

at the debt collection company.

 

I know its far too late to for them to do anything, just the wife worried. I said i need to post a

letter tomorrow and she worried again that it would start something off. I dont care either

way thanks to all the info from you guys.

 

She is in 2 minds about the letter. She said ignore them, i said are you sure because a letter

should stop them calling ever again.

 

Thanks, guys. Printing the letter now so she can have the choice to ignore and tell them to

go away or post it in the morning.

 

A big thank you.

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you don't need to do anything

and i'm not sure what you reasoning behind the rest of you post implies

its spam/phishing for a mug

 

 

don't be one and respond

that's why they do these things

to gander a response

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I did waffle a bit..

 

Its just that i know what spam is like and even the most obscure email address will get some at some point,

but when my financial trouble started the spam on my credit card email address increased substantially.

 

And when i checked out one of the links in the email it was registered to an employee at one of the

debt collection agencies. Yes trying to trick me into contacting them or trick me into trying to

buy something which would then let them know that i had money to spend i guess.

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Do i write to Cabot or Ruthbridge? I assume Cabot.

 

Thanks

 

Refer to post#12

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group - The National Consumer Service

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

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Hi Andy sorry to bother you

but I am in exact same boat as deepinthewhatsit

and have just received the same form of letter asking me to contact ruthbridge and not cabot

 

 

just so I am clear are you advising to contact Cabot only and not Ruthbridge or advising to ignore the letter altogether and nothing more will come of it???

 

 

sorry to have jumped on the bandwagon and

 

 

I am honestly not wanting to hijack the thread

 

 

but I am in such a similar situation and I just dont want any more annoying letters or having to block anymore phonecalls from these blood suckers.

TIA

Dave

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dave best to start a new thread

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 1 year later...

is to start a new thread

of your OWN please

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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