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    • Indians, traditionally known as avid savers, are now stashing away less money and borrowing more.View the full article
    • the claimant in their WS can refer to whatever previous CC judgements they like, as we do in our WS's, but CC judgements do not set a legal precedence. however, they do often refer to judgements like Bevis, those cases do created a precedence as they were court of appeal rulings. as for if the defendant, prior to the raising of a claim, dobbed themselves in as the driver in writing during any appeal to the PPC, i don't think we've seen one case whereby the claimant referred to such in their WS.. ?? but they certainly typically include said appeal letters in their exhibits. i certainly dont think it's a good idea to 'remind' them of such at the defence stage, even if the defendant did admit such in a written appeal. i would further go as far to say, that could be even more damaging to the whole case than a judge admonishing a defendant for not appealing to the PPC in the 1st place. it sort of blows the defendant out the water before the judge reads anything else. dx  
    • Hi LFI, Your knowledge in this area is greater than I could possibly hope to have and as such I appreciate your feedback. I'm not sure that I agree the reason why a barrister would say that, only to get new customers, I'm sure he must have had professional experience in this area that qualifies him to make that point. 🙂 In your point 1 you mention: 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver. I understand the point you are making but I was referring to when the keeper is also the driver and admits it later and only in this circumstance, but I understand what you are saying. I take on board the issues you raise in point 2. Is it possible that a PPC (claimant) could refer back to the case above as proof that the motorist should have appealed, like they refer back to other cases? Thanks once again for the feedback.
    • Well barristers would say that in the hope that motorists would go to them for advice -obviously paid advice.  The problem with appealing is at least twofold. 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver.  And in a lot of cases the last thing the keeper wants when they are also the driver is that the parking company knows that. It makes it so much easier for them as the majority  of Judges do not accept that the keeper and the driver are the same person for obvious reasons. Often they are not the same person especially when it is a family car where the husband, wife and children are all insured to drive the same car. On top of that  just about every person who has a valid insurance policy is able to drive another person's vehicle. So there are many possibilities and it should be up to the parking company to prove it to some extent.  Most parking company's do not accept appeals under virtually any circumstances. But insist that you carry on and appeal to their so called impartial jury who are often anything but impartial. By turning down that second appeal, many motorists pay up because they don't know enough about PoFA to argue with those decisions which brings us to the second problem. 2] the major parking companies are mostly unscrupulous, lying cheating scrotes. So when you appeal and your reasons look as if they would have merit in Court, they then go about  concocting a Witness Statement to debunk that challenge. We feel that by leaving what we think are the strongest arguments to our Member's Witness Statements, it leaves insufficient time to be thwarted with their lies etc. And when the motorists defence is good enough to win, it should win regardless of when it is first produced.   
    • S13 (2)The creditor may not exercise the right under paragraph 4 to recover from the keeper any unpaid parking charges specified in the notice to keeper if, within the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which that notice was given, the creditor is given— (a)a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement; (b)a copy of the hire agreement; and (c)a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement. As  Arval has complied with the above they cannot be pursued by EC----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- S14 [1]   the creditor may recover those charges (so far as they remain unpaid) from the hirer. (2)The conditions are that— (a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper; (b)a period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given has elapsed;  As ECP did not send copies of the documents to your company and they have given 28 days instead of 21 days they have failed to comply with  the Act so you and your Company are absolved from paying. That is not to say that they won't continue asking to be paid as they do not have the faintest idea how PoFA works. 
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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American Express Corporate Card


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Items purchased for myself. The point im making is I never signed anything to say I'm responsible it was a company charge card....??? Yes I was irresponsible for using it I have never denied that. Didn't want to cause a forum war?! Confused by this site now because every post ive read isn't it about people trying to wriggle out of money they have spent on credit cards. How is this different?

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Well I've never thought that's what CAG is about - but perhaps that's my mistake rather than yours.

 

I'm afraid I don't know the basis on which Sky gave you the charge card, and therefore on what grounds you could possibly try to welch from your debt, but I'd be surprised if it was given to you with no understanding that you would have to pay it back.

 

It' seems to me a slightly odd arrangement anyway: my employer gives me a corporate credit card, but it's on the understanding that it is for business use only. I am not allowed to use it for personal purchases.

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100% agree and I never signed anything to say it was for company use only. Serious! They did mentioned it to everyone before I left because I believe this has happened to a lot of people there. I know cag is to help people with debt and fight off debt that has long gone. It has helped me massively in the past 10 years ago and I won my case. This whole debt is my fault for using it on things for me. Stupid totally. But because I never signed anything to say I'm responbily or its for business use only im hoping I have ground to fight the case. Maybe not but worth a try? Any help on next steps would be great I know nothing about charge card law.

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Did the charge card have your name and the company name on it? If yes, then you would have signed the agreement, and if you didn't sign it then someone forged your signature.

 

This really is quite silly. You admit its your mistake, You admit its your spending, you admit its your card, and yet you want someone else to pay. Good luck getting out of it in court.

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i did sign the agreement but it didnt state i was responsible for it. Basically I dont want to get a ccj. I have never received a default notice or is one on my credit file for it. I havent been sent anything to prove I signed for the card but I havent asked either. What should I do in terms of not getting the ccj? Do i ask for the charge card agreement eg a sar because its a corporate card. Do I contest the claim in court? Just wondering what people recommend?

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Upload court form reason. Anyone have any ideas on how to reply in my defence. I have done nothing so far as its a charge card not sure what to do? Eg send a Sar first to the solicitor? Apply for the acknowledge of claim form online to 28days. Any help would be great and templates

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I bet you in your contract it says that you must pay your charge card.

 

I bet you on the form.you.signed it says you are ultimately responsible for your charge card.

 

I bet the courts wont look favorabley on this for you as you had the card, you spent on the card and then you refuse to pay the card. The balance of probabilities to the eye of the court will be that it is your bill and therefore you must pay it. However, someone may be along soon to advise otherwise.

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You could always ask the cardholder if they would accept an out of court settlement and then make the offer of payments. They mustn't be derisory though.

Asking doesn't mean they will accept.

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You could always ask the cardholder if they would accept an out of court settlement and then make the offer of payments. They mustn't be derisory though.

Asking doesn't mean they will accept.

Any ideas on what to send out or fill to the courts to prove they have a signed agreement? Also no defaults? Is that normal for charge cards?

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I've emailed Brachers llp and im going to call them today. See what I can do in terms of paying them monthly. I've mentioned where to send a Sar as well?! Hoping they accept an offer of payments monthly so I don't get a ccj

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I can't see why they won't except monthly payments. If you go to court you show the judge you can't pay in one go and so get monthly payments. The only reason I can see for them going all the way, (beside being miserable sods), is they might be wary of you maintaining payments without a break, so I think a lot will depend on your past record of payments.

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Prob right to be honest but I haven't seen a signed agreement from

Anyone? Hoping they don't have one or not sure how I can not get a ccj and pay monthly for the debt?

 

 

You were an employee of the company?. The card was supplied by the company, and you signed an application?.

The card had your name on (and this is usually on a line above that of the company's name?)

 

If so, I'd suggest a position of trust has arisen.

 

Did you use it exclusively for company expenses previously?. If not, did you repay any personal expenditure you made using the card (previous to your spending binge before you left)?.

 

Even if you didn't sign an agreement with AmEx or the company, I doubt it would be hard for the company to show a "consistent course of dealings" that would help it advance the premise that a position of trust arose, that the card was for company expenses ...

 

Do you think you owe for the spending?.

 

If not, then don't repay it, and expect a CCJ.

If you agree you owe it, then make them a reasonable repayment schedule offer ..... you can always keep in reserve the concept that if they went for a CCJ a court would only enforce payment at a rate you could afford anyhow....

 

I've emailed Brachers llp and im going to call them today. See what I can do in terms of paying them monthly. I've mentioned where to send a Sar as well?! Hoping they accept an offer of payments monthly so I don't get a ccj

 

I don't see how an SAR will tell you anything you don't already know, unless there is PIP or penalty charges involved ..... are Brachers acting for AmEx or your previous employer?

If for Amex, might they try for a CCJ against you with your previous employer named as a second party? in which case its an easy win for them (and then to enforce against your employer, where your previous employer would then undoubtedly seek recompense from you....)

 

 

*EDITED TO ADD

 

They've issued the claim. Are your previous employer listed on the claim (as a 2nd party, anywhere)?

 

So, your offer would now have to include repaying the court fee and (limited) solicitor's costs.

If you say "a court will only insist on repayment at a rate I can afford", they may well respond "true, but at least with a CCJ we can get to enforce it". From their point of view, now that they have commenced proceedings, you'd have to offer them some benefit to them for not seeking a CCJ if they feel they have a good case.

 

Could you get your previous employer to pay, and reach an agreement with them to repay them?.

This would avoid a CCJ being registered against you, as long as you kept to the repayment schedule...

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This just seems to be going around and around. He is looking for a way of not paying a legitimate bill.

 

 

Which I don't think anyone has yet suggested (nor should they, if the site continues to not encourage debt avoidance : there seems nothing here to suggest improper behaviour by either AmEx or the employer.....)

 

A more charitable suggestion is that the OP may be looking for a way to obtain a repayment schedule while avoiding a registered CCJ, and I suspect this should be the better outcome (for the OP!) they should be aiming for.

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For which I've already made a suggestion. If they say no, then they would be silly as a court will if they should take it that far.

 

Why silly?

It will be a trade-off : the risk the court will impose a lower monthly repayment than the OP might offer outside of court against the certainty of having an enforceable CCJ.

 

Should the OP aim to offer them the best of both worlds if they really want to avoid a CCJ? How about a Tomlin Order?

 

Action gets stayed, so no CCJ registered, but can have stay lifted if OP doesn't stick to the repayment schedule.

Would that satisfy both sides, and save the court's time (a point the OP might make when proposing it.....)

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