ET3 not sent to Claimant

[gorbat]

I have received tribunal's Notice of preliminary hearing case management and Notice of a claim - Notice of hearing with a case management orders. However, I haven't received CT3 copy . Is that ordinary ? When I should see it?

[steampowered]

No, it isn't normal. Request a copy from the Tribunal.

 

I think you meant ET3 rather than CT3.

[gorbat]

Thank you for your reply.

Yes, sorry for typing mistake. I meant ET3.

[gorbat]

I have to prove inconsistency of my treatment by employer regarding procedural rules.

 

Namely how they conducted my disciplinary proceedings compared to how they conducted grievance by my colleague. My disciplinary was led, decided and executed by one person. However, the grievance by my colleague against the alleged victim of my dismissal, was led by independent board person. Notwithstanding that my grievance against victim was not taken into account at all.

 

Is my colleague bound by confidentiality about his grievance procedure closely connected with my dismissal, because i do not want to harm her prospects if I reveal discrepancy and discrimination. I know it is internal confidentiality but how should i go around it to prove inconsistency. ( can she put inconsistency in her witness statement, or should I leave it to cross examination?)

 

I don't know if I was clear, but the question is can I point to evidence which another employee is bound by confidentiality? I know that whistleblowing must be in public interest, but what about confidential information internal to respondent which proves illegality of my dismissal.

[honeybee13]

Hi. Is this related to your ET3 thread please?

 

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?488465-ET3-not-sent-to-Claimant

 

 

 

HB

[gorbat]

No.

as for et3 i sent email request , and et sent mer et3 response immediately. So, tank you again for suggestion.

[honeybee13]

I'm sorry, I'm not really following this, can you elaborate for us please?

 

 

You raised a grievance and aren't happy with how it was dealt with? And you're no longer with the company and wanting to use evidence from your colleague's grievance if I've understood you correctly.

 

 

Which of you is going to a tribunal?

 

 

HB

[gorbat]

I was dismissed, now at Tribunal. I have preliminary end of July. My disciplinary was held differently than a grievance by my colleague. My disciplinary hearings and the procedures were hasty, only one person investigated, decided, led hearings ( it was 2 - final warning and dismissal). Contrary , the procedure for the grievance of my colleague was led, investigated by independent member of the company.

 

 

 

However, because of duty of confidentiality my colleague is bound- i.e. not to talk about her grievance and process, can I point on that inconsistency not to harm employment chances of my colleague?

Edited July 10, 2018 by honeybee13
Paras

[honeybee13]

Thank you for that. So your colleague is still at the company and this evidence you want is for your own tribunal about your dismissal?

 

 

HB

[gorbat]

Yes. And she will be my witness at tribunal.

[honeybee13]

Thank you. I've merged your threads, we only need one for your tribunal. Please continue to post on this one.

 

 

HB

[gorbat]

I just want to ask , because their et3 is 4 months late - from my et1, can I request tribunal for default judgement As et3 claim was not submitted within time?

[dondada]

I just want to ask , because their et3 is 4 months late - from my et1, can I request tribunal for default judgement As et3 claim was not submitted within time?

 

Yes, you could ask for a default judgement but most likely you wouldn't get it

The Tribunal always seems reluctant to do so and a lot of Respondents always fail to reply on time

[dondada]

I have to prove inconsistency of my treatment by employer regarding procedural rules.

 

Namely how they conducted my disciplinary proceedings compared to how they conducted grievance by my colleague. My disciplinary was led, decided and executed by one person. However, the grievance by my colleague against the alleged victim of my dismissal, was led by independent board person. Notwithstanding that my grievance against victim was not taken into account at all.

 

Is my colleague bound by confidentiality about his grievance procedure closely connected with my dismissal, because i do not want to harm her prospects if I reveal discrepancy and discrimination. I know it is internal confidentiality but how should i go around it to prove inconsistency. ( can she put inconsistency in her witness statement, or should I leave it to cross examination?)

 

I don't know if I was clear, but the question is can I point to evidence which another employee is bound by confidentiality? I know that whistleblowing must be in public interest, but what about confidential information internal to respondent which proves illegality of my dismissal.

 

On what grounds are you challenging your dismissal?

If it is simply on procedural unfairness though you could win but you might not get much compo becos of Polkey Deduction

It will help if you tell us a bit more story

[gorbat]

I am sorry I wrote twice but your site just went blank when I submit it .

[gorbat]

June to September 2017: Victimization that led to my dismissal - age discrimination as to breach of health and safety rules . ( statutory) . Not allowing an air conditioner at all to be open during summer 2017. Yes it was 30 degrees in the office most of the time. I complained . Not giving me opportunity to appeal against his decision.

 

 

From October 2017 : Disability discrimination - not taking into account my chronic depression and anxiety while dismissing me and giving me final warning; also not taking reasonable adjustments as to my disability. ( Dr letter - not only had not been taken for mitigating ; but not even investigated further)

Procedural: gross negligence and inconsistency in my treatment and treatment of another employees.

 

 

End October 2017: Gross misconduct for bullying - saying 'victim' do not say my name ( deliberately repeatedly calling my name in negative, defamatory manner) - final warning. Victim gave false evidence: I put counter claim and grievance at the hearing ( and later before dismissal hearing , however it was never followed.)

 

 

End Nov 2017: Gross misconduct for bullying the same 'victim' ; sending email : please do not make private calls from the office, go out of office, if you want to make it private, as we all do, it shows arrogance and disrespect towards me...always doing it when just two of us are in the office. . After reading email 'victim' in irrational, aggressive manner, chanting: do not touch me, do not come close to me, i will call 999 etc. while I stood there frozen, staged false physical attack by me. A part of 'attack' I recorded. People around complained about her, however my director took it as me bullying her.

 

 

Anyway , it could be an interesting case . I would like a tribunal to make a statement of what the bullying finally is. One act of nuance perceived by employer or ....?

 

You would ask yourself : what is his/her motive? I would say as for him it is to show us/me who is the manager. Especially me , as I , even foreign, even in the lowest position was/am 3x more educated than him (in law for his detriment). As for the 'victim' it is a blatant professional jealousy. I was the best employee . As for me I was seen as a trouble maker. he saw me as a threat to his reign. Of course motive is the hardest to prove. It is for tribunal to decide.

Edited July 11, 2018 by honeybee13
Paras

[dondada]

June to September 2017: Victimization that led to my dismissal - age discrimination as to breach of health and safety rules . ( statutory) . Not allowing an air conditioner at all to be open during summer 2017. Yes it was 30 degrees in the office most of the time. I complained . Not giving me opportunity to appeal against his decision.

 

 

From October 2017 : Disability discrimination - not taking into account my chronic depression and anxiety while dismissing me and giving me final warning; also not taking reasonable adjustments as to my disability. ( Dr letter - not only had not been taken for mitigating ; but not even investigated further)

Procedural: gross negligence and inconsistency in my treatment and treatment of another employees.

 

 

End October 2017: Gross misconduct for bullying - saying 'victim' do not say my name ( deliberately repeatedly calling my name in negative, defamatory manner) - final warning. Victim gave false evidence: I put counter claim and grievance at the hearing ( and later before dismissal hearing , however it was never followed.)

 

 

End Nov 2017: Gross misconduct for bullying the same 'victim' ; sending email : please do not make private calls from the office, go out of office, if you want to make it private, as we all do, it shows arrogance and disrespect towards me...always doing it when just two of us are in the office. . After reading email 'victim' in irrational, aggressive manner, chanting: do not touch me, do not come close to me, i will call 999 etc. while I stood there frozen, staged false physical attack by me. A part of 'attack' I recorded. People around complained about her, however my director took it as me bullying her.

 

 

Anyway , it could be an interesting case . I would like a tribunal to make a statement of what the bullying finally is. One act of nuance perceived by employer or ....?

 

You would ask yourself : what is his/her motive? I would say as for him it is to show us/me who is the manager. Especially me , as I , even foreign, even in the lowest position was/am 3x more educated than him (in law for his detriment). As for the 'victim' it is a blatant professional jealousy. I was the best employee . As for me I was seen as a trouble maker. he saw me as a threat to his reign. Of course motive is the hardest to prove. It is for tribunal to decide.

 

 

 

You made a lot of allegations here and a Judge would be put off

 

The pattern is this;

 

Date

Event

Effect

Violation/Relevant Act

Inference

 

Let me give an example

 

 

On the XX of July 2017, it was very hot in the Office

I requested that the Airconditioning is put on

The manager refused

I had to work in a very hot and stuffy office

This is contrary to section 6 of the Offices, Shops and Railway Premises Act 1963

His refusal is due to my XX (age/sex or race)

 

 

You have to state every event so that a Judge could draw proper conclusion

[gorbat]

Thank you for reply and suggestions. I did complain to employer and quoted health and safety regulations. ( whistleblowing?) But you gave me the right Act. Thank you.

 

However, I do not know may I point another procedure (grievance hearing) in the company and compare it to mine (disciplinary hearing), to show inconsistency and inequality. Would it be whistle blowing or breach of confidentiality by another employee who told me about inequality?

[gorbat]

Update on case:

 

Judge made orders for

 

Automatic dismissal in accordance with s 100 ERA ( whistleblowing - health and safety)

 

Unfair dismissal s 98 ERA

 

Direct Disability discrimination ( resp. saying to 'victim' that I have problems. - alluding to mental problems.

 

Discrimination arising from disability s 15 EqA ( not taking medical record for dismissal)

 

Not making adjustments s 20 EqA

 

However, It is more then a month and I did not receive written copy of the order; is that usual?

[dondada]

Update on case:

 

Judge made orders for

 

Automatic dismissal in accordance with s 100 ERA ( whistleblowing - health and safety)

 

Unfair dismissal s 98 ERA

 

Direct Disability discrimination ( resp. saying to 'victim' that I have problems. - alluding to mental problems.

 

Discrimination arising from disability s 15 EqA ( not taking medical record for dismissal)

 

Not making adjustments s 20 EqA

 

 

 

I don't understand what you are saying here

 

Are you saying the other side didn't put in a defence and a default judgement was made?

[gorbat]

No, at the Preliminary hearing judge went through my claim and these points will be discussed at the main hearing. I am asking should I get court orders made at the Preliminary?

[dondada]

I still don't understand you

 

 

You had a Preliminary Hearing

 

 

The Other Side turned up

 

 

Issues were clarified during the Hearing

 

 

Directions were given

 

So I don't understand which order you want to be made?

 

The PH has already been held

[gorbat]

Thank you. Yes, I meant Directions , not the order, sorry. Judge said that I will get in writings directions he made, however I still haven't, so I didn't took notes at the PH.

[dondada]

Correspondence from the Tribunal tend to take a long time However, you could call the Tribunal Office to find out why the delay

 

 

Sometimes you might need to call before the Offices act They are currently overwhelmed

 

 

When you get the Directions, look at the Issues to be determined If anything is missing, make sure you write back immediately

Edited September 6, 2018 by honeybee13
Paras

[gorbat]

Thank you for clarifying .