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    • I'm not sure on the best option here, I'm happy to go with Tomlin, however I can afford to pay this one in full if needed and wonder whether I should be trying to get a reduced amount, perhaps in the court hallway before going in? that would require submitting a WS of some sort. What I 'like' (strong word) about TO in this instance, is that it allows me to keep my savings to hand for further accounts needing attention in the near future and I would hope gives me some control over the pcm amount.. I've read a number of TO threads now (fell to sleep at the keyboard last night ) but have a few questions please: - Do I specify the payment arrangement in a TO or the claimant? I'm thinking 20% lump upfront plus 96 months of circa 60 squid. - Who decides repayment amounts if CCJ is granted? if the judge, then do I submit I&E at any point? Given the amount of total debt across all my claims, I need to ensure anything I commit to is future proofed. I wouldn't want all my disposable income sent to this one debt, only to have another one in a month or two.
    • I'm sure I've said before that it's fine and dandy bringing in rules that favour you or your party, but you have to consider how it would play out if your opponents get in and want to use the same rules...
    • Its Gaelic celebration and bonfires today - Beltane Quite fortuitous for tomorrow lets hope
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    • Few tweaks as the run order was completely messed up and the main point of your defence (reconstituted agreement) pushed to the bottom of the statement.   I, XXXXXX, being the Defendant in this case will state as follows; I make this Witness Statement in support of my defence in this claim and further to my set aside application dated 1 November 2022. 1.The claimants witness statement confirms that it mostly relies on hearsay evidence as confirmed by the drafts in person in the opening paragraph. It is my understanding they must serve notice to any hearsay evidence pursuant to CPR 33.2(1)(B) (notice of intention to rely on hearsay evidence) and Section 2 (1) (A) of the Civil Evidence Act. 2.  I understand that the claimant is an Assignee, a buyer of defunct or bad debts, which are bought on mass portfolios at a much reduced cost to the amount claimed and which the original creditors have already wrote off as a capital loss and claimed against taxable income as confirmed in the claimants witness statement exhibit by way of the Deed of Assignment. 3. As an assignee or creditor as defined in section 189 of the CCA this applies to this new requirement on assignment of rights.  This means that when an assignee purchases debts (or otherwise acquires rights under a credit agreement) it also acquires certain obligations to the borrower including the duty to comply with CCA requirements (such as the rules on statements and notices and other post-contractual information).  The assignee becomes the creditor under the agreement. This ensures that essential consumer protections under the CCA cannot be circumvented by assigning the debt to a third party. 4.  I became aware of original Judgement following a routine credit check on or around 14th September 2020. 5. The alleged letter of claim dated 7 January 2020 was served to a previous address which I moved out of in 2018, no effort was made to ascertain my correct address.  I have attached a copy of my tenancy agreement which is marked ‘Appendix 1’ and shows I was residing at a difference address as of 11 December 2018 and was therefore not at the service address at the time the proceedings were served.  I have also attached an email from my solicitors to the Claimants solicitors dated 14 July 2022 which was sent to them requesting that they disclose the trace of evidence they utilised prior to issuing the proceedings against me.  This is marked ‘Appendix 2’. The claimants solicitors did not provide me with these documents. 6. Under The Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims 2017 a Debt Buyer must undertake all reasonable enquiries to ensure the correct address of a debtor, this can be as simple as a credit file search. The Claimant failed to carry out such basic checks. Subsequently all letters prior to and including ,The Pre action Protocol letter of claim dated 7 January 2020 and the claim form dated 14th February 2020 were all served to a previous address which I moved out of in 2018. 7. Upon the discovery of the Judgement debt, I made immediate contact with the Court and the Claimant Solicitors, putting them on notice that I was making investigations in relation to the Judgement debt as it was not familiar to me.  I asked them to provide me with a copy of the original loan agreement but this was not provided to me.   The correspondence to the Claimant Solicitor's is attached and marked ‘Appendix 3’ 8. On (insert date) I successfully made application to set a side the judgment. The claim proceeded to allocation, 9. The claimant failed to comply with the additional directions ordered by District Judge Davis on the 2 February 2024 'The Claim shall be automatically struck out at 4pm on 3 April 2024 unless the Claimant delivers to the Court and to the Defendant the following documents.' None of these documents were received by the court nor the defendant by that date. (insert date you did receive the documents) I then sent a Data Subject Access Request to Barclays but no agreement was provided. Details the timeline of communication between myself and Barclays are attached and marked ‘Appendix 4’and the copies of correspondence between myself and Barclays are attached and marked ‘Appendix 5’. Remove irrelevant 10.The claimant relies upon and has exhibited a reconstituted version of the alleged agreement. It is again denied that I have ever entered into an agreement with Barclaycard on or around 2000.  It is admitted that I did hold other credit agreements with other creditors and as such should this be a debt that was assigned to Barclaycard from another brand therefore the reconstituted agreement disclosed is invalid being pre April 2007 and not legally enforceable pursuant to HHJ Judge Waksman in Carey v HSBC 2009 EWHC3417.  Details of this are attached and marked ‘Appendix 6’. The original credit agreement must be provided along with any reconstituted version on a modified credit agreement and must contain the names and address of debtor and creditor, agreement number and cancelation clause. 11. Therefore the claimant is put to strict proof to disclose a true executed legible agreement on which its claim relies upon and not mislead the court. 12. It is denied I have ever received a default Notice pursuant to sec 87(1) CCA1974.The claimant is put to strict proof to evidence from the original creditors internal document software the trigger of said notice.  13.   As per CPR 1.4(2)(a) the court encourages parties to cooperate with each other in the conduct of proceedings in order to try and save time and costs for the parties and to also save the time and resources of the court however, despite vast attempts at mediation the claimants have been most unreasonable and have remained unwilling to mediate. 14. Until such time the claimant can comply and disclose a true executed copy of the original assigned agreement they refer to within the particulars of this claim they are not entitled while the default continues, to enforce the agreement pursuant to section 78.6 (a) of the Credit Consumer Act 1974. I believe that the facts stated in this Witness Statement are true.  I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. Signed                 ………………………………………………….. Name                  XXXX Date                     30 April 2024   Run 3 copies Court /Claimants Sol/File
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Tabernus V Natwest


tabernus
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right have got copies of bank charges for one of my accounts (sent off for two but so far only got one) quite a fast response time (about 14days).

 

have done a bit of adding up and i rekkon they owe me £2,012.50 :-x

 

what next??

 

cheers

natwest £3,500 PAID june 2007 smile £655 PAID june 2007 no more bank accounts :(

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Hi Tabernus,

 

Welcome aboard!

 

Your next step (and should really be your first step!) is to read through the FAQ section of this site, in particular the step-by-step guide. This walks you through the whole process, from requesting your statements, to wording your court claim correctly. Have a look here for the FAQS: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/

 

The templates section has useful letter and spreadsheet templates so you can work out any interest owed, as well as cataloging all your charges in an easy to read format.

 

Any questions not answered in the FAQ, please ask them here.

 

Cheers

Joe

My original 2006 claim - Victorious!

13/06/2006 - Sent Data Protection Act Request (NatWest), recorded delivery.

19/06/2006 - Sent preliminary letter, requesting £3483

17/07/2006 - Sent LBA for revised figure of £3601 (after finally managing to open a parachute account with Lloyds TSB!)

07/08/2006 - Filed Moneyclaim for £4401

11/09/2006 - Defence received from Cobbetts

25/09/2006 - Sent AQ to court and CPR18 response to Cobbetts

30/09/2006 - AQ due at court

25/10/2006 - *WON* Cheque for full amount received from Cobbetts

 

"Things are made of littler things that jiggle"

- Richard Feynman

 

 

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ok have done the advances excel sheet.

 

this shows that i have £62.95 in interest owed, as i understand it i now send the inital request for payment along with a copy of the spreadsheet.

 

is that right?

 

ta

natwest £3,500 PAID june 2007 smile £655 PAID june 2007 no more bank accounts :(

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i've read the FAQ several times. it tells you to start a thread. so i did :p

 

i cant say its the clearest document i've ever come across but i'm trying (very trying ;))

 

i got the original template from here for my data protection letter for natwest

natwest £3,500 PAID june 2007 smile £655 PAID june 2007 no more bank accounts :(

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Not sure why it's showing no posts in that forum - try logging out and back in again. Some areas of the site require you to be logged in to view them.

 

The first letter you send is the preliminary request for payment, yes. Although you've worked out the 8% interest, you do not claim this until the case goes to court, if indeed it does get that far. So send the spreadsheet that lists all your charges, with their dates, but not the portion that calculates the interest.

 

Once you've done this, sit back and wait - most people hear back fairly quickly, although you should allow 14 days before sending the second letter back.

 

I notice you've said you're still waiting for the statements for your second account- you might want to think about claiming the charges back from both accounts at the same time, just to keep things simple. Unless of course you think the total amount you'll be claiming will be more then £5000 in which case it is advisable to keep claims below this amount.

 

Forgot to say, good luck :)

 

 

Cheers

Joe

My original 2006 claim - Victorious!

13/06/2006 - Sent Data Protection Act Request (NatWest), recorded delivery.

19/06/2006 - Sent preliminary letter, requesting £3483

17/07/2006 - Sent LBA for revised figure of £3601 (after finally managing to open a parachute account with Lloyds TSB!)

07/08/2006 - Filed Moneyclaim for £4401

11/09/2006 - Defence received from Cobbetts

25/09/2006 - Sent AQ to court and CPR18 response to Cobbetts

30/09/2006 - AQ due at court

25/10/2006 - *WON* Cheque for full amount received from Cobbetts

 

"Things are made of littler things that jiggle"

- Richard Feynman

 

 

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umm i didnt work out 8% i worked it out using the advanced spreadsheet.

 

should i not include the interest with this letter then?

natwest £3,500 PAID june 2007 smile £655 PAID june 2007 no more bank accounts :(

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Ah, sorry - I only claimed the 8% interest when I submitted the court claim, as it seemed too much trouble to work out the 29% interest (or whatever it is). In that case, yes include this interest in your prelim letter and spreadsheet when sending it off.

My original 2006 claim - Victorious!

13/06/2006 - Sent Data Protection Act Request (NatWest), recorded delivery.

19/06/2006 - Sent preliminary letter, requesting £3483

17/07/2006 - Sent LBA for revised figure of £3601 (after finally managing to open a parachute account with Lloyds TSB!)

07/08/2006 - Filed Moneyclaim for £4401

11/09/2006 - Defence received from Cobbetts

25/09/2006 - Sent AQ to court and CPR18 response to Cobbetts

30/09/2006 - AQ due at court

25/10/2006 - *WON* Cheque for full amount received from Cobbetts

 

"Things are made of littler things that jiggle"

- Richard Feynman

 

 

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this is a mental reminder to me that i posted the statement and second letter off to natwest today.

 

got my other bank account statements (in duplicate mostly) and worked out that account has about £1000 worth of charges.

 

will see what happens in 14 days

natwest £3,500 PAID june 2007 smile £655 PAID june 2007 no more bank accounts :(

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi Tabernus,

 

If you've sent back both letters, and they have not settled your claim yet, then it is time to start court proceedings.

 

There are two routes you can go down here:

a) File your claim online via the www.moneyclaim.gov.uk website

b) File at your local court in person

 

a) is vertainly very convenient as you can do it all from your computer, however one of the shortfalls of doing it all online are that you are restricted in how much information you can submit to support your case.

 

b) Does mean going to your local court to pick up and file papers, but you can write as lot more information to support your case, as well as being able to submit spreadsheets of charges with your claim as well.

 

Have a look here at section 5, for a brief overview of each method: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/31460-step-step-instructions.html

 

You may want to read through others cases to see how they have got on with each method.

My original 2006 claim - Victorious!

13/06/2006 - Sent Data Protection Act Request (NatWest), recorded delivery.

19/06/2006 - Sent preliminary letter, requesting £3483

17/07/2006 - Sent LBA for revised figure of £3601 (after finally managing to open a parachute account with Lloyds TSB!)

07/08/2006 - Filed Moneyclaim for £4401

11/09/2006 - Defence received from Cobbetts

25/09/2006 - Sent AQ to court and CPR18 response to Cobbetts

30/09/2006 - AQ due at court

25/10/2006 - *WON* Cheque for full amount received from Cobbetts

 

"Things are made of littler things that jiggle"

- Richard Feynman

 

 

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thankyou :)

 

is it particularly time critical? its just that i move house at the end of the month and it would be much better not to be in the middle of court proceedings.

 

is it ok to wait a month or should i start now?

natwest £3,500 PAID june 2007 smile £655 PAID june 2007 no more bank accounts :(

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No probs :)

 

I actually waited a month after sending my LBA to them as I was waiting to be paid so I could afford the court fees.

 

As long as you've given them sufficient opportunity to refund your charges (you have, with two letters), and forewarned them of your intent to begin court proceedings (you have, with your LBA), then you can file your court claim whenever is convenient for you to do so. So by all means, get your house move out the way before starting; it's not going to harm matters, and it will make things easier with all correspondence going to one address rather than moving in the middle of a court claim.

My original 2006 claim - Victorious!

13/06/2006 - Sent Data Protection Act Request (NatWest), recorded delivery.

19/06/2006 - Sent preliminary letter, requesting £3483

17/07/2006 - Sent LBA for revised figure of £3601 (after finally managing to open a parachute account with Lloyds TSB!)

07/08/2006 - Filed Moneyclaim for £4401

11/09/2006 - Defence received from Cobbetts

25/09/2006 - Sent AQ to court and CPR18 response to Cobbetts

30/09/2006 - AQ due at court

25/10/2006 - *WON* Cheque for full amount received from Cobbetts

 

"Things are made of littler things that jiggle"

- Richard Feynman

 

 

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  • 4 months later...

right so after several upheavals i'm back with this.

 

and i've put in my court request.

 

not claiming for anything past last july cos thats when i did all the workings out and that was what i approached natwest with in the first place.

 

now we see what happens.

natwest £3,500 PAID june 2007 smile £655 PAID june 2007 no more bank accounts :(

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their last letter said specifically 'take us to court'

 

so i did.

 

got the letter from northampton saying they have so many days to reply.

 

i'm not feeling very hopeful - i expect a defense, but then nothing is easy eh.

natwest £3,500 PAID june 2007 smile £655 PAID june 2007 no more bank accounts :(

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got me letter saying Acknowledgement of Service has been filed - with a copy of their response.

 

no offers, as i suspected they intend to defend all of the claim, signed by Lynsey Burgoyne of Cobbets (they must be busy) like everyone elses.

 

I've spent the morning reading up on other peoples claims and going back through the zip file of court stuff and the court notes on the govt website.

 

as I understand it they now have 28 days to file their defense, I dont do anything until they do this and I hear more do I (apart from cramming up on the courts process)? Its after this that we get sent the AQ isnt it?

 

can someone just confirm that I wait to hear more before I do anything?

 

many thanks

 

J

natwest £3,500 PAID june 2007 smile £655 PAID june 2007 no more bank accounts :(

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You seem to everything in order here and seem to know exactly what you're doing. You are correct im thinling that it's a case of waiting for their defence to be submitted. All you can do in the meantime is what you're already doing by continuing to read up on the information and getting yourself prepared for the next stage.

IF MY COMMENTS HAVE HELPED PLEASE CLICK MY SCALES

 

Don't be like the banks - give a little back

 

 

:D NAT WEST - WON - £4282.36:D

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

ok so now i have a response from natwest and it says briefly their defense and the CPR18 request for more info.

 

the copies from the court state that they want to dispense with the AQ ("unless the DJ orders otherwise"), which i wasnt expecting. i thought everyone had to do them.

 

what do i do now?? - i'm off to re read about cpr18's. i'm concerned i've done something wrong.

 

oh and also my court has been transferred from northampton to bristol!

 

cheers

 

Tab

 

their defense:

 

1. The POC do not disclose reasonable grounds for bringing a claim.

 

2. Any charges over 6 years old will be struck out.

 

3. No admission is made about what charges were brought.

 

4. The defendant must identify each charge + date + reason.

 

5. relates to proving the UCTA 1977.

 

6. relates to section 15 of the SGSA and proving it is relevant.

 

7. they reserve the right to plead later with regard to my claim for costs as it is 'not sufficiently particularised'.

 

8. CPR 18 request.

 

9. they reserve the right to amend the defense later.

 

10. they are not liable.

 

is this the standard letter?

natwest £3,500 PAID june 2007 smile £655 PAID june 2007 no more bank accounts :(

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ok it looks like most people are sending back the refusal to complete the CPR18 request until its been ordered by the courts.

 

should i do this too? i was feeling very confident about it all up until now.

 

this letter

 

only problem is that the defence i recieved doesnt actually correlate with that letter.

natwest £3,500 PAID june 2007 smile £655 PAID june 2007 no more bank accounts :(

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