AndyGFLees v Lloyds

[AndyGFLees]

I am currently at the stage of counting up my charges which include Service Charges, Unauthorised Borrowing Fees, Unpaid Items Fee, Interest and Account Charges.

 

Am I correct in thinking that I can put a claim in for everything except the Service Charges. By the way this is for a Business Account that I had up until mid 2002.

 

Thanks

[AndyGFLees]

Sorry, I have just read Claire V LTSB and the question is answered. According to that a Service charge should be recovered if it is not for a special service.

 

Thinking about it though, is this not the charge for running the account (which I may have agreed to)?

[callumsgran]

I think you had better check with the bank about the service fees, it does sound like something you may have agreed to!

[AndyGFLees]

I would like to but I opened and closed the account between 1998 and 2002. I suspect that their terminology, rules, services etc have changed by now.

[barracad]

Do you have a 'special' current account e.g. Select/Gold Service/Platinum - if so it is probably the monthly fee for the privilege of having this 'special' account and these charges therefore can't be reclaimed.

[callumsgran]

I would assume then that these are not reclaimable, just go ahead with climing the rest of the charges back ok?

[AndyGFLees]

Having thought about it, I think I might go ahead and try and claim them. The main reason is that, up until 13/11/2001, they varied, ranging from £8.55 per month to £2.55. After 13/11/2001 they settled at £2.50 per month.

[AndyGFLees]

I appreciate that if you have 2 accounts you should pool your claim but is this the same for a Business Account and a Personal Account with two different branches?

[adamski]

Hi

From what i have read here you can send one DPA request for more than one account with the same Company i.e. a bank account and a credit card account with Lloyds for instance, i can see no reason why it would make a difference it being business or personal as long as it is in your name.

Regards

adamski

[AndyGFLees]

Thanks Adamski but I have already got a Data Protection Act response for my business account, still waiting for the personal data. Once I have both sets of information, should I pool the claim?

[adamski]

Im not sure as a business account is in a business name so i am really not sure, maybe a mod or site helper can anwser this one more confidently.

Regards

adamski

[barracad]

Personally I would keep them seperate. When it reaches court you would need to split them anyway as you can't rely on consumer law for the business account.

 

Also if it is a Limited Company you would not be entitled to make a claim in a personal capacity - only the company would be able to initiate a claim.

[AndyGFLees]

Thanks barracad. It is only a trading as company but keeping them seperate does make sense to me.

[AndyGFLees]

I am in the process of making my claim and have just received the information I requested from Lloyds TSB using the standard Data Protection Act template. However the statements, which go back to 23/5/00, stop at 4/9/01 and revert to pages entitled "View Statement Entries". These pages detail just the Charges and Fees for each statement sheet between 23/8/01 and 3/7/06 but no details of balances at the date of the charge.

 

1. Can I insist on a full statement for each period (the list covers 121 statement numbers)?

2. How can I work out my interest on interest?

3. Can I claim back additional sums for having to deal with this ineptitude on their part?

[GaryH]

Hi Andy.

 

1. Yes, you most certainly can. However, have a look how the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) was worded, if it ask's for a 'complete list of transactions and charges', then technically they may have complied with your request? If you want the full statements you may have to make a new one.

 

2. Interest on interest is quite complicated and personally I don't bother, as the amount would'nt be worth the brain ache of working it out. If its a large claim though or if there are a lot of charges from quite a few years ago, then it may be worth it and there is a spreadsheet to help you in the templates library.

 

3. There has been some debate on this recently and I think the general consencus is no. This is becouse most of these claims are dealt with on the small claims track, where costs are not generally awarded to either party. Having said that though, I think it is at the judges discretion and besides, its highly unlikely that your claim would get that far. If they wanted to settle then it has to be for the full amount of your claim whatever it may be, or else you are not obliged to accept.

A better alternative though would be to claim contractual interest. Have a good read of the threads on the subject that can be found in the 'General' forum.

[AndyGFLees]

Thanks GaryH.

 

1. The actual wording of my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) was as the template says; "Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my bank account since 4th June 2000. Alternatively, a complete set of bank statements for that period will be acceptable."

 

2. My interest on interest is only the interest calculated in the standard spreadsheet. However, it needs the balance at the date of the charge. In my case, between 23/8/01 and 3/7/06 there is no balance as the entry only shows date, amount, reason. For example:

 

View Statement Entries - 77XXXXXXXXXXXX (my acount details)

 

Date Type Descpn CD/DR Balance Sheet No Batch No

 

21/08/01 CHG O/DRAFT INT 5.13DR 44

 

3. If I have to work out the balance because they cannot provide it would an independant person consider that I can add this to my initial claim amount as reasonable work expenses?

 

Thanks for the advice,

 

 

 

[GaryH]

Obviously you don't want to wait another 40 days, so try to contact them and get the full statements sent under the origional S.A.R - (Subject Access Request). If they don't play ball however, I don't really think you would be in a position to actually enforce it, becouse the request did'nt actually ask for the full statements. If you do really need them, you could send a new SAR (with the wording changed to request full statements) ASAP so if they don't co-operate at least you'd have it to fall back on.

 

With regard expenses/costs, as I said before there are conflicting opinions on the issue and ultimately, it would be at a judges discretion. If you do claim them, ensure that the amount you claim is quantifiable, reasonable and transparant. Include the figure for expenses in your prelim and LBA say that a breakdown of the costs is availible on request. Remember however, that it is becouse costs are not (generally) awarded on the small claims track that ensures the process of bringing litigation against the banks is so (reletively) risk free. I, for one, would not feel anywhere near as confidant if this safeguard were not in place. If you feel you should be re-imbersed for your time and effort, you may be on firmer ground by claiming interest at the banks own contractual rate. First though, you should be sure you are aware of the logic and issues involved. Theres loads of information availible on these issues in the general forum. See these threads - 'Whats your time worth', 'A new way of looking at interest', and 'Why is nobody claiming contractual interest?'

[AndyGFLees]

First of all I have looked around the site for answers to this so please forgive me if it has already been covered (no doubt numerous times).

 

When using the standard letter for a preliminary approach for repayment, and when quoting "plus £xxx.xx which you have charged me in overdraft interest for the sum which you have taken", what exactly is this amount. I have been using the Excel spreadsheet to calculate my costs and I find nowhere that calculates this - unless it is any and all interest.

Thanks for your patience,

[Michael Browne]

There are 2 instances of interest you can claim:

 

1.When you go overdrawn the bank will charge you interest, perfectly lawfully.

 

However, if part of your overdraft is made up of penalty fees, they are also charging you interest on these too and it is this interest which you are entitled to claim back, but it's tricky to separate out from the total interest figure.

 

Vampiress has a spreadsheet, (the advanced one), in the bank templates library, which attempts to calculate this

 

It's quite complex and unless your claim is large may not amount to that much, so for simplicity's sake, some people don't bother

 

This is the interest referred to in the preliminary and LBA letters.

 

 

2. Section 69 8% interest on your claim, but only when you submit a claim at court. Don't add this interest before moneyclaim

[pepper491]

Hi Andy, I am about to claim against Lloyds TSB and am also looking at the service fees, Did you try to claim them and if so were you successful?

Phil

[AndyGFLees]

Coincidentally, I am just filling in my Claim Forms now. I will be claiming these as I do not believe that they are an accurate cost on the bank's part.

[GaryH]

Unfortunately, monthly account service fee's, such as 'select account fee's', etc. are NOT claimable - they aren't a penalty charge.

 

If you knowingly make a claim for money which you're not owed, you run the risk of having your claim struck out and being judged a vexatious litigant.

 

Some claimants do leave them in by genuine mistake - and in reality the only consequence is that Lloyds will deduct them from the settlement amount.

 

Still, they will notice in any event, so you've nothing to gain and everything to lose. Claim back what they took from you unlawfully - no more, no less.

[AndyGFLees]

Gary,

 

As an example of one of my service charges (£8.55) it is made up of 2 cheques being paid in @ .59p per cheque, 1 credit at another bank @ .70p, 1 "other credit" @ .70p, cash paid out charge of £9.25 (£1850 * .5%), 1 cheque paid in @.27p. Then 50% discount is applied and a £2.50 Monthly Account Maintenace Feee added. Could you give me your opiion as to what would be claimable

Regards,

 

Andy

[Butterflycollecter]

Good luck with your claim

[nicsussex]

Gary,

 

As an example of one of my service charges (£8.55) it is made up of 2 cheques being paid in @ .59p per cheque, 1 credit at another bank @ .70p, 1 "other credit" @ .70p, cash paid out charge of £9.25 (£1850 * .5%), 1 cheque paid in @.27p. Then 50% discount is applied and a £2.50 Monthly Account Maintenace Feee added. Could you give me your opiion as to what would be claimable

Regards,

 

Andy

 

Can't see how any of these can be deemed to be penalty charges - you may think they are expensive - that is another thing - i would certainly not include them in any claim.