New Starter - Big Topic - Particular Problem

[DIVERMOOSE]

Hi All - Now I have read many threads and tried to gen up, I have done a cost calculator which indicates I have in excess of £3000 owing + interest.

I noticed the good advice about getting another bank account as back up, this is particularly important as my life is entwined with the HSBC ie mortgage, joint account, single account, critical illness policies (thats another story) etc. Suddenly about 2 months ago, the charges caught up with me and they hit me for £370 in one month, this took me well and truely over the edge, this caused DD's to be refused, they rejected my mortgage and other loan payments (all to them) and then hit me with even more charges - spiral....and it had impacted my family big style.

Knowing that the £3000 would sort my situation out it is obvious that the charges reclaim MUST be progressed.

I went to another bank and tried to open an account, only to be told at a click of a button that I cannot have an overdraft with them because my credit score was not good enough! She also advised me that if I reapply to another bank and fail...my score gets worse.

So - any advice please, what happens when you go for reclaim and risk the HSBC clash with no standby account?I have been in touch with them on 3 occasions and have been no help - 3 different solutions and the threat of another managed loan!!!! No way out - they have £3000 of mine and do I darego for this in my current situation...or do I claim through the Financial Ombudsman-so they can keep track of me? Thanks

[freakyleaky]

Well as far as I know the banks do not generally close accounts on the first claim. I will post a link for parachute accounts as soon as I remember where it is.

I wish you all the luck in the world with your claim. Stick to the advice you get from this site and you will get your money back.

They seem to pounce on the vunrable and give no help.

[freakyleaky]

Do you need a parachute account?

Have a look at this thread. It may help!

[lateralus]

also - all products are treated separately - so you file a claim for your current acct charges - they aren't going to call in the loan or mortgage.

start by getting your statements for the current account - send the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) letter - or get them on-line.

 

i've seen an excellent thread about this in general - which may be of some help to you: Taking back control of your finances

[DIVERMOOSE]

Thanks both of you!

I think the biggest issue is that once your credit history has gone down the pan, you need an overdraft, apply for an account with an overdraft and that is when the credit scoring comes in. I have a Flexi Account with the Nationwide so I suppose that will do, if I transfer my salary into that, they would soon offer me an overdraft!

I have already received my statements and gone through them with help from this forum....so I just need to send the letter and the list of charges.

Freaky - you are right about the vulnerable...although I am fairly well paid, a couple of years unemployment - 2 kids and suddenly you are fighting the bank and I am sure they see you as a money making machine that cannot fight back!!!! We shall see.....excuse me but I have about 20,000 threads to read and digest!

Thanks for your help tho....here we go....

[DIVERMOOSE]

Another thing tho.....I assume that we all feel that the bank knows us persoanally....that they know that if we apply...someone is sat there shaking their head thinking...oh no not this guy again...look at his history....we are just a number...it is not personal...it is business and they don't care! LOL.......pessimistic view I know but!

[Rayne]

quite probably highly accurate tho

 

i often get the feeling that someone at the bank somewhere is having a laugh at our expense

[Spiceskull]

Hi Diver,

 

You need to be careful how you manage your claim, and you need to follow all the advised steps before taking the next steps.

 

Firstly, you will need to get a parachute account, just to be on the safe side. If nothing else this will allow you to have funds available for meeting payments that get bounced by HSBC. It will also allow you to pay for your court claim as well as other "immediate" payments without worrying about going overdrawn.

 

The downside is that if your credit history is poor then you are only likely to get a basic bank account - no overdrafts or loans I'm afraid, but for day to day finances this is not too much of a sacrifice.

 

HSBC are very unlikely to close your account when you claim a refund the first time - if you check other threads you will find that this only happens when you make a second or third claim. This will undoubtedly happen because even though you are making a claim, and getting refunds, they will continue to apply penalty charges to your account. Once they realise that they have lost this revenue stream (penalties) they will decide that for "commercial reasons" they will close the account...i.e. they can't make any more profits from you...

 

However, as Lattie says, even if they do close the account they are unlikely to call in things like loans and mortgages - these are separate arrangements that should not be affected by the closure of your current account.

 

Your best weapon is to keep on reading up, and to follow the claim stages one step at a time.

 

Good luck.

[DIVERMOOSE]

Thanks for that The Phoenix i rise from the ashes!

I am going to go through the threads and try and stick to the scheme of things. It does appear very daunting but as there are so many successes I am sure I can achieve......I BELIEVE!!!

When your house, kids, work, life all revolve around money and then you are threatened this way.........you are on the knife edge and dont want to fall.....guess I wont topple I am going to throw myself off!!!

Back to reading threads!....

[pinkduchess]

divermoose - with all the help & support on here you too will be one of those success stories.

 

It is daunting - for some more so than others, but we are all here to help if we can when asked.

 

I wish you every luck with your claim.

[DIVERMOOSE]

Thanks Pinkdutchess!

SAR - Must this form part of your claim? I have requested and received my 6 years of statements and been through them all to get my charges detailed. Does this negate the SAR or does the SAR form an important part of the legal process?

 

Thanks...I am still thread reading so apologies if this is obvious later on!!!!

[freakyleaky]

Do you mean the £10 fee you send with the SAR?

The sar is just a means of requesting your details. If they comply with that request then thats the end of it. If they did take the £10 fee I am pretty sure you can't claim this back!

hope this helps:)

[lateralus]

if you are asking do you need to do the sar - then no - if you have all your statements for the last six years - then you don't need to send an sar.

 

you are ready for the prelim letter.

make a list of all your charges - read this: Charges description on statements - Please Read and don't forget the newly named arrangement fee which hasn't yet been put on the list. pretty much everything with a DR next to it - but check the list on that thread.

i do have to mention the overdraft interest here - so, bear with me, and don't let it get you in a pickle - just take it bit by bit.

the overdraft interest are all those interest debits on your statements.

you do not just list them as charges -that is totally incorrect - so don't do it. if you have a large-ish claim - then the o/d interest may add another good bit to your claim and may well be worth calculating. the thing is - some, all or none of each interest debit may be reclaimed - it depends on your balance at the point of each interest debit - if you are in positive balance - none of it is reclaimable - if you are in negative balance when the interest debit comes out - then some or all of it is reclaimable -

you find this out by doing the advanced spreadsheet. it is in the library with the others - called advanced - but i did it and i'd never done a s/s in my life - in fact - i was so impressed with my doing it - i got cocky and wrote a little how-to for it and will be happy to pass it along - if you want it. so, if you want to claim for the overdraft interest you do the advanced spreadsheet.

if you don't want to do the advanced or are happy to leave out the overdraft interest - then you do the simple spreadsheet and it will figure the 8% interest which you will be claiming when you actually file your claim - not for the first two letters - but, do the spreadsheet now - reason is - it gives a lovely professional list of charges (you just fold back or cover over the 8% column for the first two letters) and that's it.

you write the prelim letter from the library and attach the spreadsheet with you total charges on it (not using the 8% yet) and that's it - send it off = recorded delivery and you are on your way. simple. 14 days later - you send the next letter. so, no time like the present - circle all those charges on your statements, do the spreadsheet, type the letter and bob's you father's brother - you are on your way to getting them back.

 

very good luck - although lots say it doesn't take any luck - just a little patience. get back if you've questions - we are here to help and we will be cheering you on.

[DIVERMOOSE]

Thanks lateralus!

You are building my confidence.....by the minute!

Funny every time I look at my statements...my anger grows! I just pulled out one statement to understand your interest recommendation.....it reads in 1 month..April to May.

Total Charges £125

Interest £8.65

These charges appear on the statement on 9th May! On 3rd May I was in credit....so would this interest be reclaimable?

Funny good old HSBC then even tell me that I have already incurred for the following month Total charges of £125 and Debit interest of £3.16 which will appear in June!!!!

They are so efficient at ripping you off.....

In fact for the past few months I have been losing about 7% of my take home pay in bank charges!

I know I am no angel but I feel as though I have been mugged or scammed every month and then feel sick as I realise it is my bank that I have been with for 20 years that is mugging me!!!!

Me bitter and twisted??? Nah!!!!!

[lateralus]

let me send you my step by step for the interest bit - it may clear it up for you - (i used the same date as the interest was debited as there was always another balance that same day - and no, if you are in credit on the day it is taken out - the spreadsheet won't pick it up -

if you are in negative balance it will pick up some or all of it)

do it step by step with this - it's post 26 of this thread:honeygie v HSBC *****WON***** try it - it just takes a little effort and you'll see the results.

[DIVERMOOSE]

Thanks for that, I am now pulling together the charges and interest...see how it effects the grand total!

Just looked at the Preliminary Letter and noticed in red it states"Additionally you have entered a default notice against my credit record. This default occurred merely in respect of unlawful charges levied by you or was the result of impecuniosity caused directly by the taking by you of penalty charges which you had applied unlawfully to my account.

 

In addition to full payment of the sum mentioned above, I require that you remove the default entry from the register. Please note that mere correction or amendment to the entry will not be acceptable."

 

How do you know if they have entered a default notice? Having been down to the Nationwide for a parachute account and have been refused an overdraft FlexAccount, I assume my credit score is now bad....all caused by the HSBC!!! Not me gov! Does this mean they might have served a default notice or would I get notification through the post from the HSBC telling me that they have served a default notice? Therefore ...gee...i waffle...do I remove the red bit in the letters?

[lateralus]

if you don't want to pursue that bit then leave it out -

as for your question about checking - the only way i know of is to log on to experian or one of the other places that deal with credit histories. and i think for £1 or £2 you can see your file.

[DIVERMOOSE]

I am ploughing through my 6 years of statements pulling out the debit interest with balance on date of interest charge! All adding to the numbers nearly £200 of extra interest....so all good. I assume that if you have a debit interest it does not have to relate to a corresponding charge. ie on the long form of spreadsheet all charges on left listed by date order and then on right just a list in date order of all debit interest charges in date order with balance at time alongside?

 

If that is okay...a quick question about HSBC change of terminolgy, I used to get total charges....now I get Notified Fees/charges and then on a separate sheet at the back of my statements they waffle on about arrangement fees and my last statement in April went on about Overdraft Arrangement fees, informal overdrafts "fair fees" policy etc. Is this a change and does it make any difference to the claim? Or do I just carry on ploughing?

Thanks

[Spiceskull]

I am ploughing through my 6 years of statements pulling out the debit interest with balance on date of interest charge! All adding to the numbers nearly £200 of extra interest....so all good. I assume that if you have a debit interest it does not have to relate to a corresponding charge. ie on the long form of spreadsheet all charges on left listed by date order and then on right just a list in date order of all debit interest charges in date order with balance at time alongside?

 

If that is okay...a quick question about HSBC change of terminolgy, I used to get total charges....now I get Notified Fees/charges and then on a separate sheet at the back of my statements they waffle on about arrangement fees and my last statement in April went on about Overdraft Arrangement fees, informal overdrafts "fair fees" policy etc. Is this a change and does it make any difference to the claim? Or do I just carry on ploughing?

Thanks

Hmmm...the misleading descriptions, and you need to be careful not to get tripped up.

 

In a nutshell, if the charge/penalty is for something you did not agree to then it is a penalty, and fully recoverable. This includes "total charges" "cancelled DD/bounced cheque/overlimit fee/charge" etc.

 

Other fees, and they are usually termed as fees, are not always recoverable. For example, you mention "overdraft arrangement fee." Knowing HSBC this could be anything from £5 to £10 a month, and is actually a fee levied for providing an overdraft as a service. You cannot recover this, or other similar fees.

 

In brief, if the fee/charge/penalty is for a ridiculous amount then claim for it, if not then don't. Good luck.

[DIVERMOOSE]

The_Phoenix you state:

 

Other fees, and they are usually termed as fees, are not always recoverable. For example, you mention "overdraft arrangement fee." Knowing HSBC this could be anything from £5 to £10 a month, and is actually a fee levied for providing an overdraft as a service. You cannot recover this, or other similar fees.

 

I have not agreed to these fees, they have changed their wording on my statements, having looked at the last 6 years statements all of a sudden a separate sheet at the back states:

 

Overdraft Arrangement Fees

Please find details of the Arrangement Fees that are due to be charged to your account. These fees relate to one or more informal overdraft requests that you have made, which we have considered and approved.

An informal overdraft request occurs when a payment is presented to us to debit to your account and either you do not have enough funds in your account or a high enough formal overdraft limit.

 

Rather than automatically decline or 'bounce' the items, we consider whether the level of borrowing requested is reasonable. If we conclude that you may be unable to service this extra level of borrowing, we will decline the request and may chrge you a fee for considering the request.

 

Our 'Fair Fees' Policy

We do not apply Arrangement Fees for overdraft requests (either formal or informal) unless they are made frequently. The Arrangement Fee you arebeing advised of today is payable because you have made more than one overdraft request over thelast 6 months.

 

More details about our Fair Fees policy can be found on Current accounts from HSBC, compare a range of current bank accounts: HSBC Bank UK.

*******************************************************

So, I would ask have they changed their wording to get around the vague name 'Total Charges'?

My 'Arrangement Fee' for March was.....£100.00! Funny how that matches my previous 'Total Charges' monthly amount!!

 

So if you are overdrawn and a DD hits, the bank considers your account and either refuses the DD and charges you or pays it under a so called informal overdraft and then charges you!!!! That means in 1 month I have paid 'Notified Fees/Charges' of £100 + Debit interest of £6.00 + 3 x DD recall charges totalling £110 - Total £216 in one month for a poor broke man trying to sort out his finances!!!!

 

I have not requested this service and for sure not signed anything to agree to the charges or Arrangement Fees, does this then still fall under the 'Total Charges' banner and thus can be reclaimed?

[DIVERMOOSE]

I will just say as well that unfortunately unless otherwise advised by others, I am holding back on sending my letters etc until my finances are in a better state! I am expecting a cheque via the Financial Ombudsman for an Endowment miselling claim from Phoenix which would get my account back to evens but until that arrives I am struggling-with my overdraft limit reached with all my payments to come out yet this month! I was fine up until about 3 months ago and as soon as I requested my statements the HSBC seem to be stuffing me for charges everywhere!

 

So the last thing I need now is to send off my claim and them get stroppy and refuse payments....I assume that may happen, they owe be about £4000 in total so you can gather my frustration that with that money I would be about £3000 in credit.......

 

Any advice about timing when you are struggling with debt and your life is in the HSBC's hands?

 

Thanks all..it is comforting when you know you are not alone!!!!!

[lateralus]

well, back in february there was a lady on the site and she was determined to get her money without claiming and she did......

this is her thread - so, if you haven't the money to file now - maybe you should read her thread and see if it holds any relevance for you.

BatterseaCassie v HSBC (1 2 3)

[Spiceskull]

Overdraft Arrangement Fees

Please find details of the Arrangement Fees that are due to be charged to your account. These fees relate to one or more informal overdraft requests that you have made, which we have considered and approved.

An informal overdraft request occurs when a payment is presented to us to debit to your account and either you do not have enough funds in your account or a high enough formal overdraft limit.

 

Rather than automatically decline or 'bounce' the items, we consider whether the level of borrowing requested is reasonable. If we conclude that you may be unable to service this extra level of borrowing, we will decline the request and may chrge you a fee for considering the request.

Okay - they really are trying to be clever with words, dressing up the penalty as a service. This description is clearly for penalties, as they go on to explain what the "fees" are for...this is not the same as a pre-arranged monthly fee for the arrangement/provision of an overdraft facility...

 

Claim these fees back because they are penalties...

[DIVERMOOSE]

Regarding starting the claim, it is not the court costs, I am okay with those, it is the risk of the bank pulling the plug on me when overdrawn and no access to money!!! Like most I have mortgage, bills and kids to pay for...or try to.

I was called by the bank yesterday and I am off to see them about "restructuring"....dont want to....I just want there charges back and I would be in credit!!!! Shall I ask them?

[bryantgumball]

DIVERMOOSE, I have just been reading through your thread, good luck! Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but if they are going to close your account it will be after the settlement?

I have just been through and got my offer letter from DG a couple of days ago, whilst my claim was for less I do have quite a substantial outstanding 'managed' loan with HSBC. At no point during the claim did they threaten anything, and compared to what I have heard from other banks (future mother in law went to claim with A&L and they flat out said no - at least HSBC made me an offer of about 3/4 of my claim (which I didn't accept)), HSBC aren't too bad. Like mentioned in a previous post they will get shirty after a second claim but you will be fine with a first.

 

EDIT: oh I just read your last post fully..bit of advice..DO NOT(!!) accept a managed loan, if they offer it to you and try and make out its your last resort, say no - its the biggest rip off ever! I pay £90 interest a month on a £130 repayment! tell them you will be claiming for the unfair charges you have received, which will 'restructure' your account and put you well in credit, thank you mr bank manager.