The Saga: HSBC & Me - Help Needed on Recall of £1500 Overdraft

[DHO_2009]

Hi all,

 

I joined the site as I need some advice on what to do. I have shortened a VERY long saga, so please persevere...

 

I have a graduate account £1500 (a little bit more, I can not remember the full amount off hand) overdraft with HSBC and since November 08, they have been sending me letters recalling the amount since my account was dormant.

 

I have replied to the elusive Helen Packwood (Senior Collections Manager) each time and have outlined my circumstances (I am not well, and receive income support) and offered to pay an amount of around £10 per month.

 

They had not replied after three occasions, and then after another letter to them, I received a reply from someone apologizing that I felt I had had bad service.

 

Now, I phoned them and was offered a managed loan which I do not want and at the beginning of this week after the second '28 day' letter, I telephoned and said if you don't want my money - don't have it, and we need to have my offer as a formal agreement - which they can not agree too.

 

I do not want it to go to a debt collections agency, and just need them to chill out with the letters. However, after reading on here maybe a debt collection agency maybe more agreeable.

 

Who can I write to, firstly, organize paying this off slowly but surely, stop it going to debt collection agency, and then complain about the utterly poor service and total lack of understanding - HSBC are being unfair, unreasonable and ignorant to their customers needs.

 

On a more lighter note, is Helen Packwood more elusive that Bin Laden?! If anyone knows if she does actually exist and/or has a contact detail for her, that would be great also.

[johnnymitch]

Hi all,

 

Hi DHO, welcome to the forum ,

 

I joined the site as I need some advice on what to do. I have shortened a VERY long saga, so please persevere...

 

I have a graduate account £1500 (a little bit more, I can not remember the full amount off hand) overdraft with HSBC and since November 08, they have been sending me letters recalling the amount since my account was dormant.

 

Does that mean you've got another account operating with another bank which you are using for everyday Income and Expenditure ? If not , maybe you need to consider this , so HSBC can only get what you can afford to pay them. It's called a 'Parachute ' account .....:

 

Parachute Account

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/13832-do-you-need-parachute.html

This is an account where you don't go overdrawn , but make payments which you can afford to HSBC without them plundering your benefits .....

 

I have replied to the elusive Helen Packwood (Senior Collections Manager) each time and have outlined my circumstances (I am not well, and receive income support) and offered to pay an amount of around £10 per month.

 

They had not replied after three occasions, and then after another letter to them, I received a reply from someone apologizing that I felt I had had bad service.

 

Now, I phoned them and was offered a managed loan which I do not want and at the beginning of this week after the second '28 day' letter, I telephoned and said if you don't want my money - don't have it, and we need to have my offer as a formal agreement - which they can not agree too.

 

You made a wise decision to refuse the 'Managed Loan ' , this is a route to disaster ... you pay off some of the interest and hardly dent the capital and it lasts for years and years and years ,..............

 

I do not want it to go to a debt collections agency, and just need them to chill out with the letters. However, after reading on here maybe a debt collection agency maybe more agreeable.

 

 

Believe me DHO, a DCA is never more agreeable ......

 

Who can I write to, firstly, organize paying this off slowly but surely, stop it going to debt collection agency, and then complain about the utterly poor service and total lack of understanding - HSBC are being unfair, unreasonable and ignorant to their customers needs.

 

Write back to the department which is sending you the letters , offer them what you can reasonably afford , keep a copy of your letters and send anything by 'Recorded Delivery' at least ... so you can prove posting if not receipt. I wouldn't bother to complain , except maybe to Trading Standards or the OFT - HSBC will be 'In Denial' about your complaints ......

 

On a more lighter note, is Helen Packwood more elusive that Bin Laden?! If anyone knows if she does actually exist and/or has a contact detail for her, that would be great also.

It is possible , as has been suggested on the site before , that these names may be fictitious , so that you cannot pin any individual to what is said ....... so just write to the department -or you could try the Leeds address in here :

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/74985-hsbc-contact-information.html

 

Also , could it be that some of your overdraft is made up of the 'unlawful' charges that are the subject of an OFT court case that is ongoing at the moment ....... if so , maybe a read up on the following would mean you could start to claim some back , thereby reducing your loan , and putting it into 'dispute' , which arrests their abilities to chase it until it is resolved .

 

 

Links for new starters

http://www.consumerwiki.co.uk/index.php/Step_By_Step_Guide

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/31460-example-step-step-instructions.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/25457-guide-reclaiming-bank-charges.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/

 

Templates library

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/

 

 

 

I think I've given you enough to be going on with for the moment DHO , but if you've any further questions , don't hesitate to come back and ask - someone will answer , and we're user-friendly ......

Edited April 8, 2009 by johnnymitch

[citizenB]

Yes, unfortunately Ms Packwood does exist.

 

I would do as advised by johnnymitch and set yourself up with a parachute account and check if you have any charges applied.

 

It may well be in your interest to make a formal complaint to HSBC, stating that you

 

Do not want a managed loan

You are prepared to offer £x on a payment plan

You are aware there are £x amount of charges on the account and that you will be putting in a claim for them, even though the OFT v Banks case is still progressing.

 

Address your letter to

Ms L Linley,

Service Improvement Officer

Service Quality Team

HSBC Bank plc

Arlington Business Centre

Millshaw Park Lane

Leeds

LS11 0PP

 

Head it OFFICIAL COMPLAINT

 

To date, she is the only person who has replied with any sense.

[johnnymitch]

Thanks for your help there ,CB

 

 

Hey CB , congratulations on your 5000th post - which nearly slipped past unnoticed ! :grin::grin::grin:

[citizenB]

Crikey, when did that happen

[johnnymitch]

Must have been today - you're pretty prolific CB

[DHO_2009]

Firstly, I think this site is GENIUS...also a glimmer of hope for those in need! I can not thank you both enough for your help so quickly.

 

Right, down to business - I have two accounts with HSBC, the graduate account with the overdraft, and a current account which money goes into.

 

However, I have been charged over and over on this current account too (as you guessed, I am not great with money but I have a few issues with numbers). Should I get a 'parachute account' - I favour Halifax (advise), close the current account and seek charges?

 

Also, I had about £250 worth of charges refunded by my bank manager in Novemeber on the graduate account, but I think there maybe more...!

 

My friend works for the Financial Ombudsman (hilarious at parties - stories on complaints from sex toys to washing machines) and can not discuss ANYTHING to do with the case...but I will look through the links you gave me and will come back with any questions.

 

- DHO -

[emmaf01]

The favoured parachute accounts are often Natwest Step Account and Co-op Cashminder- you get debit cards and internet banking with both. But it depends what is convenient to you.

 

If your only income is Income Support you may have a case for hardship on your bank charges claims- please bear that in mind.

[johnnymitch]

Go for whichever account suits you DHO, as long as it's not connected to HSBC - as First Direct is for instance - because they can use money from one account to service a debit on another , without asking your permission. It's called 'Rights of Set--off ' ......

 

So, if your account for your everyday finances is outside of their jurisdiction , you're ok.

 

Come back if you need any more info ...... and thanks for your comments on the site ........

[DHO_2009]

Hi All,

 

Happy Easter...

 

BAD NEWS - Logged on HSBC online banking and my current account is empty.

Just phoned them up and they said what I feared they might do - use my money to pay overdraft!

 

Spoke to manager, and said it was illegal to use my benefit money and she said it wasn't (the bank manager at my branch told me it was).

 

Did have a bit of a hissy fit and slammed down the phone. Bad times I think.

 

Apparently cleared out yesterday, and letter sent yesterday too to say they are demanding full amount! HOW WAS I TO KNOW! So spent £20 this morning, so means my current account is -£20 and no doubt, they will whack a charge on that too!

 

Glimmer of hope, going into bank tomorrow and paying it off with some help from parents. But this is just downright nasty...

 

Plus I have used my benefit money in the past to clear overdraft and pay charges...is this allowed? I mean, I know its not really but I can not get to a bank where I live on the day it goes in.

Advice to gaining revenge?!

Edited April 10, 2009 by DHO_2009

[JonCris]

I strongly suggest you speak with branch manager who agreed it was illegal to take your benefits & ask him/her to reinstate your funds & if your successful withdraw them immediately, then come back for advice based on what happens

[johnnymitch]

Hi DHO - that was what i was afraid of when I suggested a parachute account - they've moved quickly on this ....... but as joncris says , try asking for it back - it's your benefit money and they're not supposed to touch it ......

 

Have a look at the early posts in this link - it would appear that the DWP has the power to claw this money back from errant banks - may be worth asking them for advice .....

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/36790-bank-taking-your-benefits.html

 

Now that would be revenge if they got the bank to repay your benefits!

[DHO_2009]

Hi all,

 

Phoned up credit services today, and had £93 of my benefit put back into my current account.

Spoke to normal telephone banking to stop a charge coming out but said have to speak to bank manager.

From the posts on here, it is true they are not all aware of the 1992 act disallowing benefits to pay overdraft or charges so am getting the forms sent/seeing bank manager Tuesday about having ALL charges and overdraft from my benefit refunded.

 

If this is the case, does this mean that those charges/overdraft will be reinstated and be payed off by other means? Or is it a simple refund and the bank loses out?!

 

Also got final demand letter today (18 days to pay), but had a disagreement with the credit services about that a letter send on the 30th March says 'a further 28 days to contact us' and she said that todays demand was a reminder, but it says no where that it is. So argued that it is not fair practice to demand full repayment until 28 days is up, and not add demand letter to the 30th March one to make up the 28 days.

Is this unfair practice?

 

Also said that they are not being fair, and against the rules, by not responding to any of my letters, except the apology letter, about repayment and only being offered the managed loan.

[johnnymitch]

That's a good bit of progress, DHO - keep 'em on the back foot !

 

The monies they took from your benefits should be refunded - it would be as well to take it out of harms way in another account if you can .

You might still owe them some money of course , but you can pay it back under your terms - if you show you're making a determined effort to pay what you can afford , however little , but regularly , a court would probably agree to those terms if the bank was chasing you .

 

Also got final demand letter today (18 days to pay), but had a disagreement with the credit services about that a letter send on the 30th March says 'a further 28 days to contact us' and she said that todays demand was a reminder, but it says no where that it is. So argued that it is not fair practice to demand full repayment until 28 days is up, and not add demand letter to the 30th March one to make up the 28 days. Is this unfair practice

 

Not quite sure about 'unfair' DHO- but certainly a case of one hand not knowing what the other is doing - or a bit of 'sharp practice' . The OFT would be able to give you guidance on that - it's a bit of a minefield....

[Castlebest]

it is true they are not all aware of the 1992 act disallowing benefits to pay overdraft or charges so am getting the forms sent/seeing bank manager Tuesday about having ALL charges and overdraft from my benefit refunded.

 

They are very well aware of the law but unfortunately very few of the people who are on benefits are so they get away with this

 

If this is the case, does this mean that those charges/overdraft will be reinstated and be payed off by other means? Or is it a simple refund and the bank loses out?!

 

I would think they will refund part of the money they have used in their offset, you need to send an SAR to get copies of your bank statements and start a recovery claim for all of the charges they have made against you accounts.

 

Also got final demand letter today (18 days to pay), but had a disagreement with the credit services about that a letter send on the 30th March says 'a further 28 days to contact us' and she said that todays demand was a reminder, but it says no where that it is. So argued that it is not fair practice to demand full repayment until 28 days is up, and not add demand letter to the 30th March one to make up the 28 days.

Is this unfair practice?

 

Once your claim for the reclaim of your charges is underway your accounts will be in dispute and they shouldn't carry on trying to recover their "debt" (they will continue but they will be on very thin ice )

 

Also said that they are not being fair, and against the rules, by not responding to any of my letters, except the apology letter, about repayment and only being offered the managed loan.

 

I would write to the bank confirming your dispute of their charges and the use of your government benefits to offset the charges they have deducted, if you tell them the accounts are in dispute they have to resolve the dispute before they can take any action against you

pete

[DHO_2009]

Thanks all, but even from reading all the posts and hours of looking through the 'are banks taking your benefits' thingy, i do not understand one thing.

 

If I go overdrawn by £90 on Monday and my benefit goes in on Tuesday taking the balance to £0 - is this use of my benefit allowed under the act? Or is is just relevant to charges and debit interest?

 

Once I get an answer to this, I am writing a letter to the bank manager, and writing a serious letter of complaint to a series of people, obviously including HSBC.

 

Oh, and how/where can i calculate the 8% interest?

 

- DHO -

[johnnymitch]

Hi DHO

As pete said above :

I would write to the bank confirming your dispute of their charges and the use of your government benefits to offset the charges they have deducted, if you tell them the accounts are in dispute they have to resolve the dispute before they can take any action against you

 

They are using your benefits to offset their heinous charges.... that's not on.

 

Regarding your other query - if you use the Spreadsheet on the Templates it will automatically calculate the 8% Interest for you and go on updating it daily for as long as you need it ...........

 

Bank Accounts

England - Simple - Excel

England - Simple - Works

England - Simple - OpenOffice

England - Advanced - Excel

England - Advanced - Works

 

]

 

Explanation of Advanced spreadsheet calculations(courtesy of pete castlebest

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/180009-about-sar-hsbc.html#post1996894

 

Generally people find it easier to use one of the Simple spreadsheets , but if you want to try the Advanced one - read up on pete's explanation first

 

IMHO, unless your claim is a large one it is probably not worth the brainwork ..

Edited April 13, 2009 by johnnymitch
removing font marks.........

[DHO_2009]

Thanks guys!

 

I handed the letter into my local branch this morning, the lady look overwhelmed with its content, and she is sending it off - got a receipt though.

 

Also posted a MASSIVE letter of complaint to HSBC regarding this whole saga. It is worthy of at least a 2:1 from Oxford, it's cracking!

 

Basically said they have failed in customer care, broken guidelines over their final demand letter and the woman who told me the SSA 1992 was not true is guilty of fraud.

 

So0o just waiting on replies and such...

 

Will let y'all know the outcome!

[johnnymitch]

Well done DHO - you don't pull any punches when you get going , do you ?

 

However

the woman who told me the SSA 1992 was not true is guilty of fraud.

 

That might be a little bit strong unless you can prove it was actually said , which is difficult ..........

 

However, keep us up to date if you will please, with their reactions and any results ....... this could be important for future claimants .....

Thanks

JM

[DHO_2009]

Quite - Once I get replies etc I will post the 1) AMAZING letter of complaint and 2) the one to get my benefit back. I do not want to do it now just incase some arse from HSBC reads this.

 

I filled out the Statment of Means form this evening and posted it off. Just to give you a little titter, in the 'Does anyone owe you any money' I put YES - HSBC - YOU TOOK MY BENEFIT MONEY TO USE AS CHARGES - ABOUT £365 (ISH).

 

I do hope they like that one!

 

Moreover, I did get a call asking if I was aware my account is now £1400 overdrawn - they took away my overdraft facility. :: Thinking out loud :: Can they do that once it is below the £1500 amount in order to get maximum interest?! Just thought of that! - and I said I sent the forms off.

 

Just have to wait it out.

 

Just one thing, I want to chase up this letter to get my benefit back up either tomorrow or Friday - depending on when someone replies - who does this go too? Who do I speak to?

 

Thanks for all your advice y'all - I just want to be kept guided. So many people loose out for not knowing what to do, and I am sick of being one of them!

[johnnymitch]

Quite - Once I get replies etc I will post the 1) AMAZING letter of complaint and 2) the one to get my benefit back. I do not want to do it now just incase some arse from HSBC reads this.

 

I'll look forward to seeing those .......

 

I filled out the Statment of Means form this evening and posted it off. Just to give you a little titter, in the 'Does anyone owe you any money' I put YES - HSBC - YOU TOOK MY BENEFIT MONEY TO USE AS CHARGES - ABOUT £365 (ISH).

 

I do hope they like that one!

I don't know if they'll see the funny side , but I certainly did

 

Moreover, I did get a call asking if I was aware my account is now £1400 overdrawn - they took away my overdraft facility. :: Thinking out loud :: Can they do that once it is below the £1500 amount in order to get maximum interest?! Just thought of that! - and I said I sent the forms off.

 

Just have to wait it out.

 

Just one thing, I want to chase up this letter to get my benefit back up either tomorrow or Friday - depending on when someone replies - who does this go too? Who do I speak to?

 

Why not ask your local branch where you handed it in

a) if they will chase it up for you or

b) who you should write to to hasten a reply.....

 

Thanks for all your advice y'all - I just want to be kept guided. So many people loose out for not knowing what to do, and I am sick of being one of them!

 

You're getting wiser by the day DHO

[emmaf01]

The standard procedure for getting charges back when you are on benefits is to get a parachute account for your benefits to go into and then reclaim through the standard procedure. This ensures the bank can't keep taking your benefits while you reclaim the money and you can often claim hardship when on benefits.

 

I see your bank has already refunded some money, I would be setting up a parachute account and calculating the full amount of benefits taken, using a SAR if you don't have all the statements.

[DHO_2009]

Thanks Emmaf01,

 

I went through all my statements online for the account that my benefits go into. They did refund £93 that they took on Maundy Thursday, but I want my others back now!

I believe that since I am not disputing the legality of the charges, only the fact they used my benefits against them, that they need to refund it now.

 

However, I did go through my graduate account and look for charges, but they have all been refunded last year by two different bank managers - one was just amazing in Durham to help reduce the amount closer to £1500. The others were by my branch manager who refunded all others after some jumped up overseas call centre girl questioned my medical history and then after feeling pressured into telling her, put 'mental problems' on the account. Happily the branch manager was disgusted, and I had a nice letter back from complaints.

 

I called up DWP, and they are sending a giro (?) until I get another account as I'm so god damn fed up with HSBC I will be closing all accounts when all is sorted out - 11 years of loyal custom and I get this s***.

[johnnymitch]

I called up DWP, and they are sending a giro (?) until I get another account as I'm so god damn fed up with HSBC I will be closing all accounts when all is sorted out - 11 years of loyal custom and I get this s***.

 

That was a good move DHO, - that'll be handy advice for future claimants - thanks for that .

 

As I said earlier , you're getting wiser every day - you now know that there is no such thing as loyalty from the banks these days and we're all the worse off for that ..........

[DHO_2009]

Hey y'all...

 

Just a little update - HSBC called today AGAIN to ask if I am aware of the account balance on the graduate account (of course, I am dumb ****) and said that the £20 pm is not an agreeable amount so have to call some budgetplan people or someone. Idk...

 

FOLLOW UP ON TAKING BENEFITS - called the complaints dept. just now, they said that they have sent a letter this morning (the day I put everything should be paid back) and the lady said whilst she can not see exactly what is on the letter, I have to sign it and return so they can go forward.

 

ANY IDEAS WTF this is about?!

 

I do hope they are not giving me the run around or is this favorable?!

 

Please excuse the use of implied rude words - but I am 3 hours behind on painting my fence and these people are really beginning to get on my nerves.