Being taken to Court by HFO Services -Please help Advice needed **WON**

[Rosie_123]

Hi - it is a long time since I have posted here, but I am hoping someone here may be able to help me.

 

Back in December 2007 I first posted here, because I had received threatening phone calls from HFO Services, demanding money for a debt I had to CitiCards, and threatening to take me to court for the debt, and put a Charging Order on my home. They said they would not deal with PayPlan, who are paying off other creditors of mine. I was made redundant in 2006, and have been unable to secure permanent employment since then (only "temping").

 

On advice from people here I sent them a CCA letter on December 7th 2007, and have never received anything from then since,-just one letter from Turnbull Rutherford in December threatening me. I replied to them saying I was awaiting a reply to my CCA letter,and have heard nothing since from them either.

 

Since then I have heard nothing, and have continued making regular payments to PayPlan (the same amount that had previously been agreed with CitiCard), which have been sent to HFO Services and accepted.

 

Now today (June 3rd), I got home from work to find a Claim Form from Northampton County Court, saying that I am being sued by HFO Services, and that they are also charging Interest Court Fees, Solicitors fees etc. They state in the form that they have sent me a "Letter of Assignment" but I have never received one.

 

So -my question is - what should I do now? I have gone online to the Court Site and filled in an "Acknowledgement of Service", but what should I do next? For example, having done this - should I also post the paper copy to the Court for the Acknowledgement of Service? Or will that confuse them? And how do I prepare the "Defence" they want? Should I ring the Court or not?

 

I am not denying that I owe money to CitiCard, and am more than happy to pay them monthly pro-rata to my "temp" wages, as I have been doing for the past year now. But I have never received any official notification from HFO that they own this debt, nor any reply to my CCA request,which I thought made it illegalfr them to try and pursue this debt through the Courts. Or have I got that wrong?

 

The debt is £2,523.19 plus all the other interest they seem to wish to charge me.

 

I do not wish to make a counter claim against them - it is way too much hassle and stress for me in my present situation. To put it bluntly - my husband is unaware of the debt (we are on shaky ground in our marriage and he would probably kick me out if he knew of it), and I certainly can't spare the time from a temp job where I don't get paid when I don't work, to deal with all this. I also care for my widowed Father, who is in his 80's and unwell. However, I do want to defend myself against HFO, as I have never received anything in writing from HFO or Turnbull and make some kind of regular arrangement through PayPlan which they have been accepting anyway.

 

Sorry - for the long post -please can someone advise me what to do? I am tearful and stressed and at the end of my tether Thanks.

Edited September 12, 2008 by Rosie_123

[42man]

OK sit down, relax and have a coffee (or something stronger !!)...there are a lot of people in similar situations as yourself !!

 

Firstly you have acknowledged the claim form...(which you had to do within 14 days on the date on the court papers) you have now got to send off a CPR request to the solicitors....

 

Send this to them by recorded delivery and do not hand sign it...

 

In the XXXX County Court

Claimant -v- (YOUR NAME)

Claim Number: (CLAIM NUMBER)

 

 

Dear XXX

 

PART 18 REQUEST FOR INFORMATION

 

I have received a recent court claim from your organisation. In order to file a defence and counter claim I require some information. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below.

 

The information must be furnished within fourteen days of the receipt of this letter. If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, a copy of this letter will be provided as evidence to the same and an Order enforcing your compliance will be sought.

 

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

 

a. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

b. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with *********.(AMEND TO THE COMPANY NAME)

c. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

d.Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

e. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

f. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

g. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

h. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

i. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.

 

 

I will require this information within the next fourteen days. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to frustrate proceedings and denying me the opportunity to file a defence and counter claim.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

XXXX (type, don't sign).

[I've got no money]

I am mid way through a case brought by HFO Services. So a few initial suggestions:-

1. Complete, today if possible, and send back today the acknowledgment of service form stating that you are going to defend the claim. You need to send it to the County Court - send it recorded delivery. At the same time send a letter to Turnbull Rutherford enclosing a copy of the acknowledgment of service form.

2.Then, also send it by recorded delivery, write another letter to Turnbull Rutherford - start off by pointing out that as there has been a failure to comply with the CCA letter any proceedings are unlawful. Then go on in the letter to say that you intend to defend the claim but that their claim form is so poorly pleaded that you require additional information from them before you can file a defence. Then list everything you asked for in the CCA letter. Tell them that this letter should be treated as a formal request for further particulars of the particlas of claim. Tell them that they have 14 days to reply by 4pm on.....(the date 14 days after the date of the letter) if they don't reply by 4pm on that day that you will apply for an Order from the Court and that you will seek an Order for wasted costs against Turnbull Rutherford.

3. Contact Trading Standards and complain that the CCA request hasn't been complied with.

4. As soon as the 14 days are up make an application on a form N244 to the county Court for an Order that

(1)the claimant comply with your request for further and better particulars of the claim within 7 days of the date of the Order

(2) That the time for the Service of the Defence be extended to 28 days after the date upon which the Claimant has complied with the request for further particulars of the defence

(3) That the case be transferred to your local County Court

(4) That the costs of and occasioned by the application be paid by the Claimant in any event. Payment to be made within 14 days of the date of the Order

 

Without knowing exactly what the basis for the claim is it is difficult to say what the prospects of success are. So you need the information from the claimant. Don't forget that as a firm Turnbull Rutherford only has one Solicitor. Most of the work is done by unqualified staff so don't let them intimidate you. Just remember anything you send them keep copy and send it by either fax or recorded delivery.

 

If there is a local CAB see them or if you qualify under the legal help scheme see a local Solicitor.

[42man]

You did the right thing by sending off the CCA request when you did...as we both know the debt is unenforceable if they can't produce it !!!

 

Now for your defence.....I do have several that can be adapted for you but it's too early at the moment as they have 14 days to respond to your CPR request !!!

 

Please feel free to PM me...but watch the timescales...You MUST defend ALL the claim this is potentially a vexatious claim against you, as you have a valid request for your Consumer Credit Agreement to which they have committed an offence under the Consumer Credit Act by sending NOTHING to you....be strong !!! they are hoping and praying that you will curl up and they can win by default !!!

[I've got no money]

Wasted Costs - there are provisions in the Civil Procedure Rules for a firm of Slicitors to be made personally responsible for costs. It's actually quite difficult to get but if you can show that the Solicitors have caused lots of problems you can sometimes get the Order. To have a wasted costs order made against them is really serious as it has a direct effect on the Solicitors Professional Indemnity Insurance Premiums (they go up). You won't get a wasted costs order this time round but further down the line when they fail to do something else you may do...

[DonkeyB]

Quite right 42man - relax and look forward to all the fantastic help you'll get. I have similar issues with this lot, but I haven't found anyone on the forum yet who's had a proper response from them to a CPR request - I think these tactics are just part of their modus operandum to scare you into paying. I had a directions hearing recently and they didn't even turn up, much to the judge's annoyance. Stay calm, organised and focused and you'll get the result you deserve.

[42man]

If you need any convincing on the CCA request Rosie...take a look here...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/133653-consumer-credit-agreements-letter.html?highlight=gareth

[42man]

AND you can claim costs....

 

The sooner everybody complains to the OFT / TS and the FOS, the sooner they will lose their credit licence !!!

[Rosie_123]

Hey thanks to everyone for so many quick responses - especially to 42Man for such a detailed response.

 

One thing - when I went to do the Acknowledgement of Service online after my first post here, the Court's system is down, so I haven't managed to do it yet:x I rang the Court, and they told me if it is not back up tomorrow, to Fax it to them and then send it in the mail as well. Does this sound right?

 

I will log in here from work tomorrow, and do the letters etc then, as I have a printer there and do not have one at home. Then I can take them straight to the Post Office and register them.

 

One question - is the CPR letter that 42Man has provided, the same letter that "I've Got No Money" mentions, when he says to write to Turnbull Rutherford telling them about the CCA letter, and asking for further information for my defence? Sorry to be stupid Also, if I send Turnbull Rutherford a copy of the Aknowledgement, does that really have to sent separately to Turnbulls, or can both letters go in one envelope? I am only mentioning this, because money is tight and it would save having to pay for two Registered/Recorded letters.

 

Thanks a lot again guys, for eveything.

[I've got no money]

Yes - the letters is basically the same. I think that they need to know that you know that it isn't enforceable

 

In terms of sending the two letters together that's fine - just mark one - first letter the other second letter. Is there a fax at work that you could use. Can you fax it to them from work then it wouldn't cost you anything, you'd have proof of delivery and you wouldn't need to send a hard copy at all.

[Rosie_123]

Hi and thanks again. Yes - there is a Fax at work, but I'm scared that if I use it, they may be able to trace the number back to where I am working - and then might start hassling me or my colleagues. I've read here on other occasions that HFO do bother people at their place of work, and because I am only in a temporary contract, I don't want to cause any trouble or lose my job. I guess sending them recorded would be safer. Thanks again.

 

Oh and one last question............ should I then send a copy of this letter to the Court, or just keep a copy and send it with my defence?

[I've got no money]

That's fair enough, although incidentally my experience of Turnbull Rutherford is that its' virtually impossible to get them to contact me.

 

At this stage you don't need to send a copy to the court. All you need is to send, at this stage is the acknowledgment of service. If you don't get a reply from Turnbull Rutherford within 14 days then you need to apply to the court (N244) and at that stage provide the court with a copy of your old letter (December 2007) and also the new letter

[Rosie_123]

Hi again.So - sorry to be a pain - but I have another question. So now that I have sent off the Acknowledgement of Service (by rcorded mail) and also the CPR letter to Turnbulls (also by recorded mail) - what should I do now? Is there anything I should do to prepare my defence,or contact the Court in wiriting with anything? Ir should I just wait for 14 days to see if I get any response from my CPR letter? I'm the kind of person who hates leaving everything to the last minute - it makes me panic!I like to be prepared. Thanks again.

[car2403]

Hi Rosie,

 

Looks like you're getting some good advice here already.

 

To answer your latest question, when is your defence due in? It will be stated on the claim form. Usually, it's 28 days after the date of service, which is 5 days after the date of issue on the form.

 

Until your defence is due in, there's nothing you can do really. Spending time preparing a "holding defence" (saying you've asked for information and haven't received it, so can't defend until you have then asking the Court to order full disclosure of everything you've asked for) would be a waste of time at this stage. It's entirely possible that you will get the reply you want from the CCA/CPR requests you've already made within that time.

 

Once your defence is due in - post again a few days before, so we can make sure you get the right advice at the right time - we can start composing it and making sure you get it in on time.

 

In the meantime, relax! You've done all you can for now. If you do get ANYTHING through the post, or something else happens on this one, come back to the thread immediately for more support.

 

What you could do in the meantime is search through the forums for other active threads - this would prepare you for what is to come later. In all honesty, that isn't necessary, as you will get the help you need on this thread, when you need it.

 

One thing I would ask, though, is that you stick to this thread for advice - having multiple threads on the one issue makes it entirely confusing to offer the right advice at the right time. If you post, then don't get a reply, PM me and I'll pop in where needed. (I'm also subscribed to your thread now, so will see any posts if they go unanswered - hopefully!)

 

Hope this helps...

[Rosie_123]

OK - thanks Chris. The Date of Issue was 2nd June, and when I rang the Court they said I had to reply by June 23rd (or July 5th if I sent in an Acknowledgement of Service), which I have done. I do not have the paperwork with me now - I have taken it all into work (locked into a draw) because I have faxes, photocopies and printers there which I don't have at home.

 

I just don't want to be rushing around at the last minute preparing anything - especially as I have to be in the office to print stuff off etc. before I send it to them. I am assuming they will only accept defence paperwork in the mail (not my email or fax), which means giving it at least 5 days to reach them after sending it,- and recording everything? So I guess I need to have it all done by 28th June at latest?

[I've got no money]

If, no I'll rephrase that, when HFO (Turnbull Rutherford) don't reply if you post or PM (taking out your name and anything that identifies you) a copy of the claim form either I or I suspect somebody else on here will be happy to help draft a defence.

 

If you qualify for public funding (legal aid) it may be an idea to see a Solicitor or to visit your local CAB

[Rosie_123]

If, no I'll rephrase that, when HFO (Turnbull Rutherford) don't reply if you post or PM (taking out your name and anything that identifies you) a copy of the claim form either I or I suspect somebody else on here will be happy to help draft a defence.

 

If you qualify for public funding (legal aid) it may be an idea to see a Solicitor or to visit your local CAB

 

Thanks. And as for Legal Aid - I used to work for them as a Secretary about 15 years ago, and from my memory of the rules, I will not qualify, because my partner works full time, and I am also working (though only temping), and we are not on benefits - just low wages. If the rules have changed at all though, it may be worth looking into. Thanks again.

[car2403]

I just don't want to be rushing around at the last minute preparing anything - especially as I have to be in the office to print stuff off etc. before I send it to them. I am assuming they will only accept defence paperwork in the mail (not my email or fax), which means giving it at least 5 days to reach them after sending it,- and recording everything? So I guess I need to have it all done by 28th June at latest?

 

I know what you mean, but, honestly, we have a stock of these defences, which just need simple adaptation to the individual circumstances of your case. It wouldn't be a rush to adapt one within a few days of the deadline - if we even get there.

 

If you qualify for public funding (legal aid) it may be an idea to see a Solicitor or to visit your local CAB

 

Personally, I wouldn't bother with either of those - there is far more sophisticated experience on CAG regarding Consumer Law.

 

A solicitor would need to be a CCA expert - which is unlikely unless you're willing (or able!) to pay for a Barrister.

 

The CAB probably won't be much help neither - they take the view that the debt is owed and would probably want you to enter a DMP to repay it, rather than defending the claim in full. They simply won't have the experience, or the resources available to them to defend the case successfully, in my experience.

 

Of course, if you have other options that provide indepth legal advice and guidance, that remains free of charge, I'd suggest you consider using them. Other than CAG, I can't think of any that comes near. 8-)

[Rosie_123]

OK - thanks again.

 

As for the DMP - well that's the point. I AM already in a DMP with PayPlan, and have been paying my pro-rata amount to HFO for over 6 months now, along with payments to my other creditors. The problem is, that HFO would not accept the amount offered (even though I have written proof it is the maximum I can afford - and that's a struggle), so that is why they are taking me to Court, even though they still accept the money every month, and I have never reneged on my payments to PayPlan.

 

I do not dispute that I owe the money to CitiCard - what I do dispute, is that I have never received anything in writing from HFO to say they own the debt, and also that they are adding interest with no proof that they have a right to do this. If I could continue paying monthly amounts to CitiCard via PayPlan with no interest (all my other creditiors have stopped adding interest and the debts are slowly going down), then I would be more than happy to pay it. It is HFO that I have the problem with - not my liability for the original debt to CitiCard - I know I owe that and am more than happy to pay them what I owe -but NO more, and NOT to HFO without proof.

[car2403]

To be honest, I can't see what they are hoping to achieve here? The best they will get is a CCJ with a money order attached telling you to pay the amount you can afford to pay - and that's it! Only if you don't stick to that, would they be able to enforce the CCJ.

 

It may be worth writing to them to tell them you can afford £X, being paid by PayPlan already and inviting them to withdraw the claim. You could even consent to the money order, if they agree to suspend the claim on that basis, with liberty to restore should you fail to do so.

 

I can't see why they want to continue, so this might just work - if they agree to the Consent Order, you will avoid the CCJ until such time as you break the agreement. Might work and save you all the hassle of continuing? Your call...

[Rosie_123]

To be honest, I can't see what they are hoping to achieve here? The best they will get is a CCJ with a money order attached telling you to pay the amount you can afford to pay - and that's it! Only if you don't stick to that, would they be able to enforce the CCJ.

 

It may be worth writing to them to tell them you can afford £X, being paid by PayPlan already and inviting them to withdraw the claim. You could even consent to the money order, if they agree to suspend the claim on that basis, with liberty to restore should you fail to do so.

 

I can't see why they want to continue, so this might just work - if they agree to the Consent Order, you will avoid the CCJ until such time as you break the agreement. Might work and save you all the hassle of continuing? Your call...

 

Well, I would be more than happy to do that, but when they first contacted me, and I offered payment in this way, they refused to accept my offer, and according to my PayPlan adviser, they were insufferably rude to her and refused to give her anything in writing either.

 

If I could put the whole thing "to bed", by putting something in writing to them (with a copy to the Court), then I would be more than happy to do it, because the entire court thing terrifies me, and I've had loads of health problems with stress in the past. None of my other creditors are being difficult like this - in fact, generally I have to say they have been helpful and pleasant. But seems HFO don't want that, because when PayPlan made an offer to them before, I simply received a letter from Turnbulls saying I was "refusing to co-operate" which is totally untrue. I have never even received an answer to my CCA letter to them in November last year.

 

If anyone could help me word a letter to this efect I would be more than happy to try it. Thanks.

[citizenB]

bump:)

[I've got no money]

If you do write to the other side mark the letter Without Prejudice at the top.

 

Contrary to popular belief there are Solicitors out there who know about CCA - some CABx have excellent debt advisers - I worked with two for a couple of years - they taught me everything I know about debts, I know of a number of firms of Solicitors across the country who know about consumer credit.

 

The Legal Services Commission website can tell you which Solicitors have consumer franchises. If there is one near to you, if you qualify for public funding, it won't cost you anything. If you want to PM and tell me what area you live in I may be able to give you an idea where to go to.

[Rosie_123]

"bump"

 

OK - I have another question for anyone feeling helpful out there. I sent my CPR letter to Turnbull Rutherford on 5th June, and it was received by them on 6th June. So far, of course, I have heard nothing from them. Can someone tell me the exact day when they should reply by? Also - what should I do next?

 

Also. can someone help me with the wording of a Defence. The last day for my Defence to be received at the Court is 3rd July, and the girl I spoke to at the Court suggested posting it by 28th June at latest. I have made copies of all my previous correspondance from HFO etc.

 

Thanks in advance for your help.

[I've got no money]

If it was received on the 6th of June then they should reply by the 20th June. What I would be inclined to do is wait until Friday. Then send them a letter giving them until 4pm on the 26th June to reply to your CPR letter. Tell them that if they don't reply by that time that you will apply for an Order that they do reply and for an order for your costs. Send it by recorded delivery

 

Then on the 27th June you send an N244 to the court - firstly seeking a transfer to your local court (puts' its' name on the application), secondly attach copies of your original CPR letter and your chasing letter and ask the court for an order that your CPR request be complied with in 7 days. Thirdly claim your costs. You need to send three copies of the N244 (so three copies of your letters as well). As your defence is due around then you may as well send in your holding defence at the same time, again three copies of the defence go to the court.

 

Send it by first class recorded delivery to the court. I would also write to our heroes and enclose a copy of the defence and also a copy of your application notice.

 

A word of advice if/when Turnbull Rutherford write to you keep both the letter and also the envelope it came in.

 

I'm sort of tied up at the moment but I'll post a draft N244 later in the week to show you how to do it