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    • S13 (2)The creditor may not exercise the right under paragraph 4 to recover from the keeper any unpaid parking charges specified in the notice to keeper if, within the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which that notice was given, the creditor is given— (a)a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement; (b)a copy of the hire agreement; and (c)a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement. As  Arval has complied with the above they cannot be pursued by EC----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- S14 [1]   the creditor may recover those charges (so far as they remain unpaid) from the hirer. (2)The conditions are that— (a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper; (b)a period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given has elapsed;  As ECP did not send copies of the documents to your company and they have given 28 days instead of 21 days they have failed to comply with  the Act so you and your Company are absolved from paying. That is not to say that they won't continue asking to be paid as they do not have the faintest idea how PoFA works. 
    • Euro have got a lot wrong and have failed to comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4.  According to Section 13 after ECP have written to Arval they should then send a NTH to the Hirer  which they have done.This eliminates Arval from any further pursuit by ECP. When they wrote to your company they should have sent copies of everything that they asked Arval for. This is to prove that your company agree what happened on the day of the breach. If ECP then comply with the Act they are allowed to pursue the hirer. If they fail, to comply they cannot make the hirer pay. They can pursue until they are blue in the face but the Hirer is not lawfully required to pay them and if it went to Court ECP would lose. Your company could say who was driving but the only person that can be pursued is the Hirer, there does not appear to be an extension for a driver to be pursued. Even if there was, because ECP have failed miserably to comply with the Act  they still have no chance of winning in Court. Here are the relevant Hire sections from the Act below.
    • Thank-you FTMDave for your feedback. May I take this opportunity to say that after reading numerous threads to which you are a contributor, I have great admiration for you. You really do go above and beyond in your efforts to help other people. The time you put in to help, in particular with witness statements is incredible. I am also impressed by the way in which you will defer to others with more experience should there be a particular point that you are not 100% clear on and return with answers or advice that you have sought. I wish I had the ability to help others as you do. There is another forum expert that I must also thank for his time and patience answering my questions and allowing me to come to a “penny drops” moment on one particular issue. I believe he has helped me immensely to understand and to strengthen my own case. I shall not mention who it is here at the moment just in case he would rather I didn't but I greatly appreciate the time he took working through that issue with me. I spent 20+ years of working in an industry that rules and regulations had to be strictly adhered to, indeed, exams had to be taken in order that one had to become qualified in those rules and regulations in order to carry out the duties of the post. In a way, such things as PoFA 2012 are rules and regulations that are not completely alien to me. It has been very enjoyable for me to learn these regulations and the law surrounding them. I wish I had found this forum years ago. I admit that perhaps I had been too keen to express my opinions given that I am still in the learning process. After a suitable period in this industry I became Qualified to teach the rules and regulations and I always said to those I taught that there is no such thing as a stupid question. If opinions, theories and observations are put forward, discussion can take place and as long as the result is that the student is able to clearly see where they went wrong and got to that moment where the penny drops then that is a valuable learning experience. No matter how experienced one is, there is always something to learn and if I did not know the answer to a question, I would say, I don't know the answer to that question but I will go and find out what the answer is. In any posts I have made, I have stated, “unless I am wrong” or “as far as I can see” awaiting a response telling me what I got wrong, if it was wrong. If I am wrong I am only too happy to admit it and take it as a valuable learning experience. I take the point that perhaps I should not post on other peoples threads and I shall refrain from doing so going forward. 🤐 As alluded to, circumstances can change, FTMDave made the following point that it had been boasted that no Caggers, over two years, who had sent a PPC the wrong registration snotty letter, had even been taken to court, let alone lost a court hearing .... but now they have. I too used the word "seemed" because it is true, we haven't had all the details. After perusing this forum I believe certain advice changed here after the Beavis case, I could be wrong but that is what I seem to remember reading. Could it be that after winning the above case in question, a claimant could refer back to this case and claim that a defendant had not made use of the appeal process, therefore allowing the claimant to win? Again, in this instance only, I do not know what is to be gained by not making an appeal or concealing the identity of the driver, especially if it is later admitted that the defendant was the driver and was the one to input the incorrect VRN in error. So far no one has educated me as to the reason why. But, of course, when making an appeal, it should be worded carefully so that an error in the appeal process cannot be referred back to. I thought long and hard about whether or not to post here but I wanted to bring up this point for discussion. Yes, I admit I have limited knowledge, but does that mean I should have kept silent? After I posted that I moved away from this forum slightly to find other avenues to increase my knowledge. I bought a law book and am now following certain lawyers on Youtube in the hope of arming myself with enough ammunition to use in my own case. In one video titled “7 Reasons You Will LOSE Your Court Case (and how to avoid them)” by Black Belt Barrister I believe he makes my point by saying the following, and I quote: “If you ignore the complaint in the first instance and it does eventually end up in court then it's going to look bad that you didn't co-operate in the first place. The court is not going to look kindly on you simply ignoring the company and not, let's say, availing yourself of any kind of appeal opportunities, particularly if we are talking about parking charge notices and things like that.” This point makes me think that, it is not such a bizarre judgement in the end. Only in the case of having proof of payment and inputting an incorrect VRN .... could it be worthwhile making a carefully worded appeal in the first instance? .... If the appeal fails, depending on the reason, surely this could only help if it went to court? As always, any feedback gratefully received.
    • To which official body does one make a formal complaint about a LPA fixed charge receiver? Does one make a complaint first to the company employing the appointed individuals?    Or can one complain immediately to an official body, such as nara?    I've tried researching but there doesn't seem a very clear route on how to legally hold them to account for wrongful behaviour.  It seems frustratingly complicated because they are considered to be officers of the court and held in high esteem - and the borrower is deemed liable for their actions.  Yet what does the borrower do when disclosure shows clear evidence of wrong-doing? Does anyone have any pointers please?
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PCN 27 - Dropped curb


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I received a PCN for parking in the suburbs of Leeds adjacent to a dropped curb yesterday (11:17, Sunday 24th Jan). Until now, I did not even realise this was an offence, as there were no other restrictions on the road.

 

My main problem with this PCN is that there is no purpose for the dropped curb. There is no adjacent dropped curb on the other side of the road, which I believe contradicts the definition of a dropped footpath from the Traffic Management Act 2004, which states:

 

(1) In a special enforcement area a vehicle must not be parked on the carriageway adjacent to a footway, cycle track or verge where—

 

(a) the footway, cycle track or verge has been lowered to meet the level of the carriageway for the purpose of—

 

(i) assisting pedestrians crossing the carriageway,

 

(ii) assisting cyclists entering or leaving the carriageway, or

 

(iii) assisting vehicles entering or leaving the carriageway across the footway, cycle track or verge; or

 

 

As there is no adjacent dropped curb, I do not believe that this dropped curb is there for the purpose of assisting pedestrians. The road was also closed a little further up at the time of the offense. The road itself is on an industrial estate, where the only business is a garage, which was closed as the offence occurred on a Sunday. This is an area where I have never seen a pedestrian and the only people that use it, use it to park their cars, as it is near to a new flat development.

 

Also, when I arrived at my car (shortly after it was ticketed) , I found that there was another vehicle parked completely obstructing the pavement, which did not have a ticket.

 

Is there any way, or any point, of fighting this? I have uploaded some images of my car and also of the road, found on Google Street view.

 

My car

2aaka2u.jpg

 

No adjacent dropped footpath

x23uol.jpg

 

30u7i3n.jpg

 

Dropped footpath 2m away

2gtw6zr.jpg

 

Only entrance to the road (end not closed)

mske3l.jpg

 

The PCN:

 

xpnjs.png

 

2edmasj.png

 

2a50n5.jpg

 

2eg5y8l.jpg

 

As you can see from the pictures, there is another dropped curb less than 2m away. This is for the entrance to a private car park, which is also closed on a Sunday.

 

Also, can someone help me by explaining what a Special Enforcement Area is? I was under the impression that you can only get fined for this offense if you are within one of these. As I was parked outside the city centre, is this included as a SEA?

 

The information on the Leeds City Council website is very poor on this. They do not once mention obstructed a dropped curb as an offence in any of their documents online:

 

http://www.leeds.gov.uk/Page.aspx?pageIden...e8-7e67122bb02e

 

http://www.leeds.gov.uk/files/Internet2007...31a77118085.pdf

 

http://www.leeds.gov.uk/files/Internet2007...eac3f86250e.pdf

 

Any help would be appreciated as I would like to appeal straight away.

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  • 4 months later...

Did you manage to appeal? I got a fine for parking on the opposite corner of the entrance to the museum car park. The traffic wardens seem to be having Xmas all around thanks to us. Pity no one gives a damn about the multiple break-ins and thefts from cars. The people from my office call the place 'glass alley' and it has nothing to do with the glass factory around the corner but the broke windows debris all around the pavement...

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Hi,

 

After a long wait for a reply for from my appeal (2 months), they decided to drop the fine. I can post my letter of appeal if you think it would help you, I focussed on a few aspects, including that there was no adjacent dropped footway, if there was planning permission for the dropped footway, the lack of restrictions on the road and the time of the offence (11am on a Sunday). Let me know of you'd like to see the letter and good luck.

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Also I just thought I'd mention, this was the reply I got. The appeal was sent via email on 4/2/2010. This reply was received on 17/3/2010.

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Traffic Management Act 2004

Penalty Charge Notice (PCN): LS********

Date of Issue: 24/01/2010

Location of Contravention: SAYNER LANE - HUNSLET

Nature of Contravention: 27 PARKED ADJACENT TO A DROPPED FOOTWAY

 

 

Thank you for your email which was received on 05 February 2010in regard to the above Penalty Charge Notice (PCN). Please accept our apologies for the delay in our reply.

 

The Civil Enforcement Officer (CEO) issued the PCN because the vehicle was observed parked adjacent to a dropped footway.

 

I would advise that the Highway Code states “Do not park your vehicle on the road where it would endanger, inconvenience or obstruct pedestrians or other road users. For example, do not stop: where the kerb has been lowered to help wheelchair users”.

 

It is the responsibility of the motorist to ensure that they park their vehicle in accordance with the Highway Code, as failure to do so may result in the issue of a PCN.

 

On this occasion, I am prepared to cancel the PCN. You should hear no more about this matter but the Parking Services department may not be able to cancel future PCNs issued in similar situations.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

Appeals Officer

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