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    • just to be clear here..... the DVLA do not send letters if a drivers licence address differs from any car's V5C that shows the same driver as it's registered keeper.
    • sorry she is a private individual, the cars are parking on her land. she can clamp the cars. only firms were outlawed from doing it bazza. thats what the victims of people dumping cars on their drives near airports did and they didn't not get prosecuted.    
    • The DVLA keeps two records of you. One as a driver and one for your car. If they differ you might find out in around a month when they will send you a reminder as well as to your other half for their car. If you receive nothing then you can be fairly sure that you were tailgating though wouldn't explain why they didn't pick up your car on one of drive past their cameras. However even if you do get a PCN later then your situation will not change. The current PCN does not comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4 which is the main law that covers private parking. It doesn't comply for two reasons. 1. Section 9 [2][a] states  (2)The notice must— (a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates; The PCN states 47 minutes which are the arrival and departure times not the time you were actually parked. if you subtract the time you took to drive from the entrance. look for a parking place  park in it perhaps having to manoeuvre a couple of times to fit within the lines and unload the children reloading the children getting seat belts on  driving to the exit stopping for cars pedestrians on the way you may well find that the actual time you were parked was quite likely to be around ten minutes over the required time.  Motorists are allowed a MINIMUM of ten minutes Grace period [something that the rogues in the parking industry conveniently forget-the word minimum] . So it could be that you did not overstay. 2] Sectio9 [2][f]  (ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver, the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid; Your PCN does not include the words in brackets and in 2a the Act included the word "must". Another fail. What those failures mean is that MET cannot transfer the liability to pay the charge from the driver to the keeper. Only the driver is now liable which is why we recommend our members not to appeal. It is so easy to reveal who was driving by saying "when I parked the car" than "when the driver parked the car".  As long as they don't know who was driving they have little chance of winning in court. This is partly because Courts do not accept that the driver and the keeper are the same person. And because anyone with a valid motor insurance policy is able to drive your cars. It is a shame that you are too far away to get photos of the car park signage. It is often poor and quite often the parking rogues lose in Court on their poor signage alone. I hope hat you can now relax and not panic about the PCN. You will receive many letters from Met, their unregulated debt collectors and sixth rate solicitors threatening you with ever higher amounts of money. The poor dears have never read the Act which states quite clearly that the maximum sum that can be charged is the amount on the signs. The Act has only been in force for 12 years so it may take a  few more years for the penny to drop.  You can safely ignore everything they send you unless or until they send you a Letter of Claim. Just come back to us if they do send one of those love letters to you and we will advise on a snotty letter to send them. In the meantime go on and enjoy your life. Continue reading other threads and if you do get any worrying letters let us know. 
    • Hopefully the ANPR cameras didn't pick up the two vehicles, but I don't think you're out of the woods just yet. MET's "work" consists of sending out hundreds of these invoices every week so yours might be a few days behind your partner's. There is also the matter of Royal Mail.  I once sold two second-hand books to someone on eBay.  Weirdly the cost of sending them separately was less than the cost of sending them in one parcel.  So to save a few bob I sent them seperately.  One turned up the next day.  One arrived after four days.  They were  sent from the same post office at the same time! But let's hope I'm being too pessimistic. Please update us of any developments.
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Just with regards to the telephone conference hearings, we had one for an allocation hearing in July that Barclays' legal rep turned up to. I think any expense from their part comes from paying a barrister to be there (although they paid a junior to be at ours, who had never done one before and was torn apart by the fairly ferocious judge!).

 

It was all very quick. However, the difference there was that the judge had already suggested (read, "decided on") fast track, and Barclays wanted that as well, as they knew it would delay things and they had obviously had a heads up about the OFT case (GRRRR!!).

 

Your hearing sounds like it may be more intricate and they may prepare for it, but all I can say is that the barrister on our call reminded me of someone shoved in front of a camera on the news without their script!

 

Anyway, we had to mess around for ages with Barclays, who ignored all requests for any organisation of the telephone conference. All I can suggest is to make sure you keep in touch with the court and let them know that you are struggling to get any response. They don't get involved, but it is just as well to let them know that you are trying to make sure it's all organised, and they are more than aware of the tactics being used in these cases. Perhaps put on any chasing letters/emails/faxes etc, a cc to the court manager/judge so that the solicitors know the court is fully informed of how much you are having to chase them. That might force their hand a little?

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Anyway, we had to mess around for ages with Barclays, who ignored all requests for any organisation of the telephone conference. All I can suggest is to make sure you keep in touch with the court and let them know that you are struggling to get any response. They don't get involved, but it is just as well to let them know that you are trying to make sure it's all organised, and they are more than aware of the tactics being used in these cases. Perhaps put on any chasing letters/emails/faxes etc, a cc to the court manager/judge so that the solicitors know the court is fully informed of how much you are having to chase them. That might force their hand a little?

 

Thanks for the info and I have been ccing the Court as well as writting directly to the Court to ask questions. However, the court lost my letter to the Judge so they have some time to find it! LOL I will drop another one off if they have not got it soon.

 

Also I will chase DG again in a few days and remind them of the direction and their obligation to organise the call.

 

Penfold

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  • 4 weeks later...

To start a new thread in this forum click this newthread.gif

but it looks like you are with the A&L so click this Alliance & Leicester

and then scroll to the bottom of the page and you will find a new thread button there.

Post the same questions on that forum.

There is a link in my signature for post oft cases!

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Here you are PJ newthread.gif

 

I have Heynes v HSBC but only a paper copy, yes the judge did uphold the stay and no further directions were made against the bank BECAUSE Heynes said he would clear the balances of his accounts.

 

A much better reference case is Carlisle v Clydesdale. again the judge upheld the stay BUT stated that if the bank took any measures against the claimant to recover the debt or report defaults in the period of the stay he would immediately lift the stay and the case would go to hearing. I have a PDF version of this if you PM me your email addy I will send it to you.

 

pete

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Hi there, can anyone plerase tell me when penfold's case is due to be heard?

My best friend has a hearing due for next thursday and iv been doing all this for him but now he will be in court on his own and i am very worried for him!!

Apart from the bundle, what else should i take or advise him to say?

PLEEEASE help if you can? Im panicking....:(

-Craigten

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Hi there, can anyone plerase tell me when penfold's case is due to be heard?

My best friend has a hearing due for next thursday and iv been doing all this for him but now he will be in court on his own and i am very worried for him!!

Apart from the bundle, what else should i take or advise him to say?

PLEEEASE help if you can? Im panicking....:(

-Craigten

 

Tomorrow morning! 10.40am on the phone. As it is a telephone hearing I have no issue with anyone knowing now.

 

Penfold

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In DG's defence paperwork they mention:

 

In short, the stay facilitates the orderly resolution of these cases, in the interests of all parties and the efficient administration of justice. It is understood that Moore-Bick LJ’s view, as expressed in e-mails to the Designated Civil Judges, is that His Lordship would be surprised if stays were not granted in most cases

Can anyone shed any light on these emails?

They have not enclosed them in their bundle so can I say this should be ignored as we are unaware of these emails.

Penfold

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on the other hand how do you tell a judge that :rolleyes:.

 

It could be worth trying the old tried and trusted Army approach Pete,

 

i.e. prefix your points " With all due respect to Your Honour, ..." then say what you need to get across. .. . it used to work for me ! LOL :D

 

Seriously though, I've heard this used in court too, many times, by barristers.

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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Thats actually very true, don't forget your a litigant in person your submission and knowledge doesn't have to be perfect your not a professional lawyer (are you? :eek::D), just ask the judge how this can have a baring on your case.

 

and I almost forgot :eek: the very best of luck tomorrow and come back and tell us all how it worked on the telephone!!! :D

 

pete

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Yep! All the best Penfold, hope it goes OK for you :D - I'll be interested to hear how a telephone hearing actually works....... I never got that far with my two.......

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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OK Hearing over…Result….Adjournment unit next possible date

What Happened:

Well a telephone hearing was indeed an experience and weird, but all in all ok. The Judge (didn’t catch his name….great for me) was very apologetic by saying he did not know anything about the case, nor had my bundle (that I hand delivered) nor the Defendants bundle (which he did get half way through the conversation).

He basically asked me to state my reasons for lifting the stay. I tried to garble through my points being flustered that he did not have anything to refer to…

I pointed out Human Rights – He asked which article etc…I think I got round it but must have sounded without any real knowledge and just regurgitating something I read!

I pointed out the Defence’s references to Wilson V Robertson and how it did not apply here

I explained about the Waiver and how it did not cover Section 187 – He was most interested in this and asked me to come up with a figure that they had taken from this money….I said “how am I supposed to that?” He said “look through the statements…” Help guys how do I do that exactly? What did he mean and how would I prove or show this?

I also talked about the Judge Behrens case and specifically point 12 about the default and him agreeing to life the stay! If only I could have been face to face with Mrs Watt (a hot shot lawyer from London!). He was interested and did not know it, but wanted to read the findings…Lovely I think.

Anyway he said shall I proceed or adjourn? She said “proceed”, I said “Adjourn” until he has my stuff in front of him since it would be unfair not to read the 120 odd pages I did for him. He agreed. He then said “would I like to try to resolve this after I leave the conference?” I said “yes”, she did too, then once he was gone she said no negotiation. Should I write to the court about this and the fact she said HSBC were not interested in settling with me?

I also pointed out several times: No defence and no successes. No offer either from HSBC at any point. He pointed out 2 successes with other banks and was I aware. I said “yes but would be happy to take my chances!”. He said if I succeeded and then the OFT case failed how would I repay since I said I was strapped. I said I would make a payment plan…LOL Don’t think that was good…but funny!

OK guys help here….

Letter to court re Mrs Watt’s not negotiating with me.

Advice to strengthen up my arguments above especially this business about S187 as he was most interested in this.

Thanks Penfold

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Well done Prabs !!!

 

will have to read up section 187... I would have been inclined to say all of the claim :)

 

I think it will be worth while telling the Judge as soon as he put the phone down HSBC refused to talk about a settlement.

 

and the two successes were due to defects in the claimants submissions not due to the banks defence, in fact I believe for both cases the bank weren't even represented in court.

 

again well done

 

pete

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and the two successes were due to defects in the claimants submissions not due to the banks defence, in fact I believe for both cases the bank weren't even represented in court.

 

 

 

Pete, tell me more about these please as I would like to include that in the letter to the Judge. Do you think I would get the same guy, he seemed nice?

 

The section 187 seems to be the key combined with Judge behrens. Problem I have with that case is the default was put on before the stay, however, it is being updated so does apply and I know HSBC will not realise that nor the judge. They will merely be trying to wriggle out of the whole thing and keep the stay.

 

Penfold

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Well done Pen.

 

Write directly to the Judge, you will be able to get his name from the Listings Clerk, and send it RD. Inform him that you tried your very best to settle but they would even discuss. Also add the tone that was used from the other side during this conversation? Apologise for him not having your bundle to hand and say what date it was delivered to Court.

 

Good luck

 

Chris:)

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