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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
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      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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going through my credit card agreement with a fine tooth comb, i have noticed that it has an APR of 17.9% variable. how much can it vary? my statements are charged at 20.9%. (i think- there are only 3 statements that tell me the APR rate) is that a reasonable fluctuation? also the credit agreement is actually the application form i signed before receiving the card. i know there have been a lot of discussions about the difference between an application form and a credit agreement, but it seems to have all of the prescribed terms, so i am a bit unsure of what to think. my oh is going to scan it for me when he gets a minute, so any advice would be good. i'm not very good with computers (it took me nearly a year to get the courage to start my own thread!!!) so sorry for the delay! if i can get any advice on the APR in the meantime, though, i'd be very grateful

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Hi Lolly, If the application form has all the terms and conditions that govern the credit agreement printed on it then your probably on thin ice.

 

The one I got sent back was just my signature and a bland statement saying if a card was granted it would be governed by the terms and conditions of the lender and mentioned two clauses in particular by number. They also sent a set of the up to date terms and conditions which were totally different and didn't have clauses with the numbers on the application form :rolleyes: so check what you have been sent carefully.

 

Apr's do fluctuate but take the higher one when you are calculating the interest due back on your charges :D.

 

pete

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today i received another letter from hsbc saying

 

I write in reference to a recent letter from the Financial Ombudsman Service.

I can see that you have requested copies of credit agreements from the bank and have said that you are unhappy at the time we have taken to respond.

Please find copies of signed agreement forms for your personal loan, credit card and flexi-loan. Regarding the overdraft facility that existed on your account, it was agreed over the telephone and no signed agreement was required.

I would also like to apologise if this information has not been provided as quickly as it should have been. I would be grateful if you would contact the Financial Ombudsman Service and let them know that the bank has now sent you the necessary paperwork.

 

This was only a small part of the reason why i contacted the financial ombudsman. i have an ongoing complaint, and they wont address it, so i will now need to send hsbc another letter telling them to read through my previous correspandance and get it sorted. Ever noticed how, hsbc deal with the problems they can, and ignore the rest?!! again, as soon as we can work out how to upload copies of the agreements i will post them for some advice.

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Regarding the overdraft facility that existed on your account, it was agreed over the telephone and no signed agreement was required.

 

 

overdraft facility? what overdraft facility? is this the one where i have stopped using my account because as soon as i zero the balance they remove another charge so i transerred verything to another account and i am now overdrawn by £200 purely from charges!!! i dont rememer discussing it over the phone, or them agreeing to give me an overdraft

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Write back and tell them you cant contact the Financial Ombudsman Service and let them know that the bank has now sent you the necessary paperwork because they haven't :).

 

HSBC run this silly formal/informal overdraft system if you ask for an overdraft its formal if you don't and your account goes overdrawn then its informal. It's meaningless twaddle :-)

 

pete

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Write back and tell them you cant contact the Financial Ombudsman Service and let them know that the bank has now sent you the necessary paperwork because they haven't :).

i like it!!:lol:

HSBC run this silly formal/informal overdraft system if you ask for an overdraft its formal if you don't and your account goes overdrawn then its informal. It's meaningless twaddle :-)

 

pete

why doesnt that surprise me, if there's one thing hsbc likes, its meaningless twaddle

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well, we've spent ages trying to attach the scanned credit agreements, but no success, tried this photobucket thing, but cant make head nor tail of it. dont know what we're doing wrong, but hey, thats why neither of us work with computers!!

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anybody with any suggestions how to post these credit agreements? i need to sort it now, because i am desperate to get hsbc to accept my reduced payments.

 

at the moment they keep trying to take them out each month and then banging a charge on, which doesnt matter too much in itself as i dont use the account any more and will eventually get around to reclaim the charges- which will basically put the account back to zero. both mine and my ohs accounts are now overdrawn by the exact amount in charges we havent got around to claiming, yet!

 

when i pointed this out to somebody at hsbc, i was informed, you have now made three claims against us, if you try it again there will be severe repercussions for you! with hindsight, i perhaps should have left longer between claims and done them all in one, but i was so desperate for cash that i did two claims for £100ish as soon as they had been taken.

 

the trouble i am having is, that i am approaching a default and would really like to avoid that if at all possible, but until they accept my offer, i am stuck, so i could really do with some advice regarding the agreements. they look fine to me, but if somebody could find ANYTHING at all that i could use as a bargaining tool, it could mean the difference between me regaining control of my finances, or slipping deeper.

 

as i may have mentioned before, we are only in this mess because my oh was ill for a very long time, but he is better now, and we can start to repair our finances if we could just get the chance to actually stop the cycle.

 

sorry about the long winded rant, i just wanted to clearly explain the situation. i am not trying to avoid payment, i just want to slow things down for a short while to get us back on our feet, and hsbc clearly dont feel the same way.

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Have you got a photo bucket account. If you haven't sign up (It's free). Once you have signed up, you will need to be in the "my album" section. On the right hand side, you will see an upload box. As you have said you have scanned the agreements on to your machine you will need to make sure you are in the "images from my pc" part. then click on browse and find your scanned images. If there is more than one image you will need to use the other "browse" buttons. then all you have to do is pres "Upload". Once your images are on the site you will then be able to copy them on to a post here. To do this, find the image, right click your mouse, select copy, go to your post on CAG, press right click again and then paste.

 

If you have any problems, just shout

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On the photo bucket site with every photo you choose, there is a choice to copy as an IMG (for forums). Left click on the one beside your image and you should get a little pop-up which says 'copied'...

 

Then just go to the forum and paste it in......... :)

 

 

PS Freaky , have you seen Pete's last post on his own thread - he's thinking of going somewhere else and we can't afford to lose people like him.......... :eek:

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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PS Freaky , have you seen Pete's last post on his own thread - he's thinking of going somewhere else and we can't afford to lose people like him.......... :eek:

 

i've just read it.... whats happening, why is everybody so upset? CAG used to be so happy, yet everywhere i look people are upsetting each other.:(

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Hi Lolly. I am hoping it is just a blip. Everyone has their off days and yesterday seems to have been a bit of a bad one for quiet a few.

I am sure things will retun to normal service before long. This really is one of the friendliest forums I have ever seen and has a strong sense of community. I think it is that sense of community that will see it through this rocky patch.

We will all laugh about it soon.:D

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Hi Lolly,

 

Did the other bit work OK? Or haven't you tried it yet.........:cool:

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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Hi Lolly. I am sure things will retun to normal service before long. This really is one of the friendliest forums I have ever seen and has a strong sense of community.

 

thats exactly how i feel. CAG has become a life line to me, its not just the problem solving, its knowing that we are all in this together. you join CAG dreading the postman coming, and end up feeling strong and fully prepared for what may be thrown at you next. i have learned so much, and i am so grateful for all the support and advice i have received, and if i can pass even a small portion of that on to somebody else, i will be a very happy lady.

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Hi lolly. Buller has just forwarded your emal to me but the file type is not recognised for some reason. Can you try saving the scans to another file type or word document? If you can see them on screen can you copy and paste them and put them directly on to a post on here?

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What is the file type Freaky?

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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