Moorcroft increasing debt after 7 years

[georgina_cat]

I am currently paying an old debt to Moorcroft Debt Recovery Ltd.

 

I have been paying this debt since 23/02/2000 the starting balance was £2024.21 and i have made regular payments to a collection agent every 2 weeks since then, the balance is now showing as £280.00.

 

Tonight she knocks on my door and says she needs to have a word with me, i say ok, and she shows me a letter saying i owe £699.38, the account and reference numbers match up with what is on my payment cards (i have kept them ALL, i staple them together). I'm not sure if they are saying this £699.38 is on top of the £280.00 or a total balance.

 

So i have just rang Moorcroft and they say the opening balance was £3000+ and i have been sent letters in the past.

 

I haven't received any letters from them, the only thing i used to get was a form to fill in with my last 3 payment amounts and date i paid them and the balance i had showing as still owed. This was only in the very beginning for about maybe a year.

 

She says she is sending me a statement out, i told her as far as i am concerned i only owe £280.00, as thats what my payment card says.

 

Can i fight this?

 

Can they tell me after SEVEN years i owe more?

 

Someone please help.

[rory32]

I would send them the CCA request and ask for a statement of account as well. A statement of account is free so don't let them charge you for it. I know they have said they are sending you out a statement but it is best to put everything in writing. Verbal requests can later be denied.

 

The CCA request template is here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html template N.

[rory32]

Sorry forgot to say make sure everything is sent by at least recorded delivery, special delivery is preferred (although is expensive at £4.30).

[georgina_cat]

Hi, sent the request for the cca recorded on wednesday.

 

Today i have received a statement from them and rang them this morning to get them to explain it to me as it has a differnet amount yet again.

 

Even before i said why i was ringing he told me the balance on my account was £689.38 (cos tuesdays paymernt has come off) but then i explained why i was calling, that i wanted the statement explained as it has a start date of 27/04/06 balance £2064.21 then a long list of payments (31 @ £10) and a closing date of 07/07/07 and a closing balance of £315.00.

 

Something wrong somewhere!!!!!

 

At first he wanted me to send the statement back to them because it must be wrong.

 

He went away and had a word with the girl i spoke to on tuesday and came back and said "she has done some paperwork on your account and reduced the balalce to £325 and with tuesdays payment it makes it £315".

 

To me this is very strange, i have told him i want to know what she 'paperwork' she did to change the amount as i would need the information for the CAB. he is sending me a load of stuff out.

 

Anyway i told him i would still only pay the £280 as that is what is on my payment card, he said to send copies of the cards and they would reduce it to the £280.

[powelll]

Hopefully this will be the end of it then... just shows you were right to keep copies of EVERYTHING though!! I bet a lot of people not as organised just keep paying until kingdom come

[georgina_cat]

A few days ago i got another statement, an exact copy of the first one they sent me except for the date it was printed.

 

So far they have not cashed the cheque for £1 for the cca and the initial 12 days is up on tuesday (letter was delivered and signed for on 19/07/07).

 

Can someone tell me exactly what will happen if they don't send me the cca i have requested? And what it all means.

 

This is all new to me, i was quite happy to continue paying the debt, until they changed the amount.

 

 

georgina

[Curlyben]

After 12 working days they are in default and CANNOT enforce the agreement.

You can happily STOP paying them.

 

After a further month they have committed a summary criminal offence and are in serious pooh.

[georgina_cat]

Hi, i just got a letter in the post, this is what it says:

 

-------

 

Dear Miss XXXXXXXXX

 

We can confirm that we are unable to supply a copy of the consumer credit agreement at this stage. We have therefore returned the payment you have made.

 

We are instructed however that our client's records do show the goods have been charged to your account, as ordered, and that full payment has not yet been received.

 

We can confirm therefore that a default remains in relation to this account and would remind you that making payment to clear the balance may assign in relation to your credit history.

 

Please confirm that you accept that goods were ordered and received and let us have your settlement proposals.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Mrs K XXXX

Operational Support Supervisor.

 

----------------------------------

 

Sooooooo, what do i do now?

 

Thanks

 

georgina

[rory32]

Currently the debt is unenforceable and will remain so as they don't have a credit agreement. What I would advise is that you offer to pay them the correct outstanding balance (£280?) in return for removal of the default. Spell out that the alternative is that you pay them nothing and get the default removed by way of a court order anyway.

[rory32]

Also make sure that if they do accept this you get this in writing as a full and final settlement on the account.

[itsamomentintime]

if there is no credit agreement, they have no right to issue your credit file with a default

 

write to them explaining this, and tell them to remove the default, and to stop unlawfully processing your data

 

if they dont comply, sue them without hesitation

[patrickq1]

i know moorcroft and they are trying to extort monies from you i caught them out doing the same to me they will not comply with your request for data they will default and tell you any monies you sent will be knocked of your balance and leave the balance as you say it is in the hope you forget the incedent.................because they know they cannot enforce this debt legaly

[georgina_cat]

UPDATE:

 

I have been to CAB and the lady i spoke to there rang Moorcroft and asked for the balance on my account, now it is exactly the same as what is on my payment card, very strange.

 

She seems to think i should just carry on paying the balance from my card.

 

But she also advised me to phone trading standards and gave me the phone number.

 

I phoned the number and it was consumer direct and not trading standards, gave them my details and they passed it on to trading standards.

 

Trading standards rang me and the lasy i spoke to there advised i carry on paying the balance from my card, but before i do that i should ring moorcroft and ask as to when they would be able to supply the CCA.

 

Sooo, i rang moorcroft and asked when i could expect to receive a copy of my CCA, they said they would not be supplying it as they did not have it.

 

So then i said well if you don't have it then you can't enforce this debt and i want to know why it has now been reduced to match my card, she did not know so i asked for a supervisor, she was on a break and would ring me back in 1/2 and hour, yeah right!

 

An hour later i rang them again and asked for the supervisor and asked her to explain how they have all of a sudden matched the amount to what it states on my payment card, and she said ...... your agent had been holding back some of your payments and now they have come off it has made your account right.

 

YES that's what she actually wanted me to believe.

 

Now i pay £10 a fortnight and for my agent to hold back £419.38 in payments, that's 41 fortnightly payments = 82 weeks. Now considering there are 52 weeks in a year i really don't think moorcroft would have remained silent if my agent had not sent any payments for that amount of time.

 

I told her i thought it was a load of rubbish and that i did not believe her, and she got really angry and asked me if i wanted her to add the amount back on to my account, i said no of course not and she said well that's what it sounds like, we have reduced your debt and you are not happy.

 

She just kept saying i have had the goods and have not paid for them and i have to pay the amount on my account, i said moorcroft can't enforce the debt without the CCA, but she just kept saying you admit you have had the goods now you have to pay for them.

 

She is sending a full statement out this week.

 

But now i don't know what to do, the CAB and trading standards both think i should just carry on paying the outstanding balance even though they can't supply the CCA.

 

Any more advice as my collection agent is due tonight (and i WILL be telling her what the girl said and the girls name as this is the second time they have blamed the collection agent).

 

Thanks

 

 

Georgina

[patrickq1]

if you wish to pay just for peice of mind then do pay ,but this is not an enforcable debt and if you claim against them you may be entitled to receive all monies paid to them as their is no contract nor agreement ,but the choice is yours

patrickq1

[rory32]

if you claim against them you may be entitled to receive all monies paid to them as their is no contract nor agreement

You would not be entitled to any monies paid. You received the goods. Not having an agreement doesn't mean there is no debt it just means the debt is unenforceable. It is up to you whether you wish to continue paying but do not try to reclaim any monies paid. You would end up in very hot water.

[patrickq1]

ooops sory rory i got the wrong thread i thought their was charges to answer to on the DCA s charges and overcharging

[georgina_cat]

Sorry for the long post, please bear with me.

 

I have just had a phone call from moorcroft demanding FULL payment for the outstanding balance.

 

I tried explaining to the idiot on the phone about the hassle i have had over the last few weeks, and he ended up shouting at me, so i shouted back that as they have not provided the CCA they have no legal right to demand any money from me, he carried on shouting and i said if he would just let me finish explaining and he said no, i phoned you, you let me finish.

 

He carried on shouting so i hung up on him.

 

When i had calmed down a bit i rang moorcroft and asked for Craig Levy, my agent last night said to speak to him if i called again as he is the collections manager.

 

After first being told he only works in the IT department and then being told he is a collection agent but not a manager and only works 9 - 5.

 

So i had to talk to the bloke who answered the phone, i tried explaining to him about everything and asked why they were demanding the full outstanding amount now he said it was john moores not them. I told him that i had had it confirmed twice from moorcroft that john moores no longer exists and that they purchased the debt in 1996 so telling me the "client" has demanded payment in full is rubbish - moorcroft is the "client".

 

I also told him that since they had not provided the CCA they could not legally demand anything, the conversation was left with him telling me if i did not pay i would be taken to court.

 

I am now planning on writing them a letter (and sending it registered post) detailing EVERYTHING that has happened the last few weeks and that i don't want to be contacted by phone again, i want everything in writing, and that i am not paying them anymore until they send me the CCA and full statement of my account with proof of what i owe.

 

Now, i need help in starting the letter off, what do i say at the beginning?

 

Also can they take me to court without the CCA, and if so what is the worst that can happen?

 

Funny thing is after my last post on here i had decided to just carry on paying up to the amount on my payment card, not any more though, i think it's very strange that they have now asked for payment in full.

 

Any help is appreciated.

 

Thank you

 

georgina

[Dispirited]

I would follow the advice that Rory gave you earlier - offer to pay them the correct outstanding balance of £280 in return for removal of the default. Tell them that the alternative is that you pay them nothing and get the default removed by way of a court order.

[PriorityOne]

Georgina... you are getting very het up over this, when the simple solution is DON'T 'PHONE THEM. Golden rule no.1 .... never speak to a DCA on the 'phone. You don't 'phone them and you don't accept any 'phone calls from them either. That way, no-one can tell you any bowlarks because you are denying them that opportunity. When they 'phone you again, just say "In writing only please" and hang up. Do not get drawn into a conversation.... this is what they want.

 

The facts are... they have bought an account and are now unable to produce a CCA in order to back up any legal right to collect upon it. You have it in writing that they are unable to produce a CCA, so all you have to do is stop paying. They are in default of a legal request and are cross because there is berger all they can do about it. Trust me, they know what it means....

 

Have you checked your credit file to see if there are any defaults on there in relation to this account ? If you have been paying since 2000, then by my reckoning..... they should have dropped off by now anyway.... so it's really up to you whether you choose to offer a Full & Final settlement to Moorcroft or not.

 

Taking their rudeness and underhand tactics into account however, I would tell them to take a hike. In fact, I already have, since Moorcroft are also one of mine as well.

[georgina_cat]

 

Have you checked your credit file to see if there are any defaults on there in relation to this account ? If you have been paying since 2000, then by my reckoning..... they should have dropped off by now anyway.... so it's really up to you whether you choose to offer a Full & Final settlement to Moorcroft or not.

 

I have done an experian check this morning and all that is showing are the 3 catalogues and 2 credit cards i have now and i have never missed a payment on any of them. The moorcroft debt is still in my maiden name and i have been married since 1996, i also put my maiden name in the info for the credit report and nothing is showing.

 

And as for full and final settlement my card shows £260 they would accept £210, i know because i asked them last friday.

 

So can they take me to court without the CCA? And if they do what is the worst that can happen?

 

Thanks

 

Georgina

[Hopeful1]

Hi Georgina

 

Without the credit agreement, Moorcroft have no legal right to collect this debt. As Priorityone said, you have that in writing. They know that, which is why they've panicked and suddenly tried to get the money quick. As already stated, after the initial 12+2 days you were well within your rights to cease payment.

 

If you can make the settlement payment, put your offer in writing. Do not pay though until they have confirmed in writing that they will accept it as a full and final offer.

 

Don't worry, you're well within your rights

[georgina_cat]

Really sorry to dredge this up again.

 

After getting the letter back from them saying they could not supply the CCA, and getting the collection agent to sort out with the office so that the amounts match.

 

I had a long think about it and decided to carry on paying my fortnightly instalments, knowing they could not hassle me anymore.

 

The balance on my card now shows as £35.00, me being totally thick gave them a ring today to see if they would accept a settlement on this (i know it is only £35.00 but i thought i might save a few pounds).

 

I was shocked to be told they had my balance at £65.00 and would not accept a settlement figure on it at all, they require the full amount.

 

The man i spoke to said i have to send a copy of my payment card in so they could sort out the missing payments, my card matches the collection agents book.

 

I told him i would not do this because as far as i am concerned my balance is £35.00 and if they had a different figure it was between him and the agent, just to be told payments go missing all the time (even if you ring in and pay by card!!).

 

And so to my actual question:

 

If i pay my agent the balance of £35.00 next week and send them a letter saying that i have paid (what was on my payment card) even though they could not supply the CCA, and as far as i am concerned my account is clear would that be ok?

 

Or am i just going to cause more headaches for myself?

 

Thanks

 

Georgina

[havinastella]

Georgina,

 

IMHO I would have stopped paying these leeches as soon as I had it in writing that they had no CCA. But thats because it's probably a Littlewoods account and I hate Moorcrap and Littlewoods with a passion.

 

You have been MORE than reasonable but you haven't posted whether you received copies of your statement of account with Moorcroft.

 

With the £35 you owe them, I would use £20 of it and send the sar to Moorcroft and the Original Lender and see what charges where added to the accounts and start to reclaim them

 

This is just what I would do

 

JOgs

[georgina_cat]

Georgina,

 

IMHO I would have stopped paying these leeches as soon as I had it in writing that they had no CCA. But thats because it's probably a Littlewoods account and I hate Moorcrap and Littlewoods with a passion.

 

You have been MORE than reasonable but you haven't posted whether you received copies of your statement of account with Moorcroft.

 

With the £35 you owe them, I would use £20 of it and send the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to Moorcroft and the Original Lender and see what charges where added to the accounts and start to reclaim them

 

This is just what I would do

 

JOgs

 

They did send a statement, but it doesn't make sense.

 

 

To be honest i'm not bothered about reclaiming any charges they had put on, i just want them to leave me alone, but i am not willing to pay any more than what is stated on my payment card.

[PriorityOne]

No CCA = no payments. It's entirely your choice what you decide to do.... all we can do is advise.

 

If you send in £35 now... all they will do is cash it and then chase you for the rest anyway because you've now made that contact. You also have nothing in writing to say that they'll accept it as a F & F.

 

If all you owe (by your own records) is £35... then sending off for a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) also seems a bit pointless.