Parking Tickets

[moggers]

thanks Brechiner - very useful ideas if not 'in-yo-face' style. I guess it gives them what they are trying to give us!!

 

anyway finally got round to the parking lot - cause of course it was my wife who was driving and not me - I was at work (and i am registered keeper). I guess I could argue that too, that the agreement is with the driver and not me and i am not obliged to tel them who it is.

 

anyway got a few photos.

 

here is the link to my photos (sorry about size of files!!):

 

http://www.doctors.net.uk/DocStore/DSView/...?folderid=42835

 

A few views from where the car was parked - and arrows to point out where the signs were. There was a big van obscuring the sign near the car, plus ofcourse a few delivery type around obscurring the view a little of the others.

plus also has scan of the 'pcn'.

[brechiner]

I would definitely write to them and ask them what law you have been convicted in a UK court of law, then point them to the Bill of Rights 1689, which says you can only pay after conviction and any threat of fine before court action is illegal and therefore null and void.

[trout]

I have a parking ticket for parking on a single yellow. On the P.C.N. it states that the vehicle was seen at 16.44 and that the penalty charge is due within 28 days of the date of issue. However, the date of the issue, being the 12/07/2006 and the time of issue, being 16.44, is only printed on the payment receipt. Is the P.C.N. therefore invalid? p.s. many thanks

[BotB]

Moggers,

 

Parking on private land is a trespass, not an offence so you can't be "fined" because you have not committed any "offence". These people are just trying it on.

Another company with the same [problem] is Excel Parking. They use the same black and yellow checkered plastic bags, have a badge logo that looks police-ish and official, refers to "offence" in the body of the ticket - load of old tripe frankly.

 

Private car parks are regulated by whatever contract has been made between the car park owner and the vehicle owner - the conditions of parking must be clearly displayed at the entrance of the car park - its no good putting them on the back of a ticket that you only get to see when you have paid your money.

 

Tell them to take a running jump...

[dw190]

I have a parking ticket for parking on a single yellow. On the P.C.N. it states that the vehicle was seen at 16.44 and that the penalty charge is due within 28 days of the date of issue. However, the date of the issue, being the 12/07/2006 and the time of issue, being 16.44, is only printed on the payment receipt. Is the P.C.N. therefore invalid? p.s. many thanks

 

Yes.

 

You can safely quote Bury v McArthur.

 

The payment slip is NOT part of the PCN.

[trout]

Cheers for that,I thought so but the jobsworth parking Manager up here in Allerdale,Cumbria does not agree.Looks like it might go to the NPAS.

 

There are many faults with my PCN ie the single yellow has a break in it(albeit

half an inch),the car was first seen at 16.44 the PCN was issued at 16.44(I

thought I was allowed 10 mins to take a letter to the PO)etc.

 

Should I appeal on all grounds or just no date of issue on the PCN?

 

I need to win this one for the sake of all up here.We've had motorists issued

with PCN's because they were not quick enough in getting their pay & display

tickets from the machines,for straddling white lines in c-parks despite paying

for a ticket etc,etc.

 

The parking Manager even states that "the information contained on the PCN

is fully compliant with the guidelines on Decriminalised Parking Enforcement outside London which recommends the details which should be recorded on a PCN!!

[dw190]

The parking Manager even states that "the information contained on the PCN

is fully compliant with the guidelines on Decriminalised Parking Enforcement outside London which recommends the details which should be recorded on a PCN!!

 

Mr Justice Jackson (A Respected High Court Judge seems to have a different view than the Parking Manager)

 

The Parking Manager is motivated by getting your money even it means telling a few porkies along the way.

[JonCris]

Suggest on all grounds & don't forget to quote the Learned Mr Justice Jackson (bless im) & Barnet

[Teenareena]

Can anyone help with this situation:

 

My car was in repair at a repair garage who had in turn given me a courtesy car. Whilst having the use of the courtesy car I was issued a parking ticket from the local authority. Later, I received a separate invoice from the garage who are now charging me £23.50 for their administration charges! I could not beileve this bearing in mind I have already paid the relevant fine for the offence.

 

Can I refuse to pay the admin fee of £23.50 to the garage???

 

Can anyone help me with this one?

[trout]

Guess what? The council have now changed the PCN's to include the Date of Notice!!

Looks like the Parking Manager has heard of Mr Justice Jackson after all.

Still waiting for my Notice To Owner though!

[Rob S]

Can anyone help with this situation:

 

My car was in repair at a repair garage who had in turn given me a courtesy car. Whilst having the use of the courtesy car I was issued a parking ticket from the local authority. Later, I received a separate invoice from the garage who are now charging me £23.50 for their administration charges! I could not beileve this bearing in mind I have already paid the relevant fine for the offence.

 

Can I refuse to pay the admin fee of £23.50 to the garage???

 

Can anyone help me with this one?

 

Why not ask them to provide you with a full breakdown of their admin costs?

[moggers]

Thanks for your help so far .....i have received my second notice and so i will send them a ltter back to tell them to f@k off!!

 

I am posting it below for advise before i send it off ..would be grateful for any wise words!!!

 

cheers:

 

 

RE: “Parking Charge Notice” number 0896xxxx

 

 

Many thanks for your charge notice letters, which I have only recently received. I would like you not to send any further as the basis for your charges is false.

 

• From your own documentation, the terms and conditions of entering the car park pertain to an acceptance of contract between yourselves and the driver of the vehicle. As I was not the driver at the time, this contract has never been accepted by me and is therefore void.

• Having visited your premises (on foot), I note that these terms are not clearly placed for an objective bystander to see prior to entering the premises to forewarn of such a charge, nor from a reasonable distance (given the tiny writing) to indicate that one should read it.

• I might respectfully remind you that any threat of fine before court action is illegal and therefore null and void under the Bill of Rights 1689.

 

I would therefore be most grateful if you would no longer contact me on this matter. If you continue to issue me with further letters, I must advise you of the terms and conditions of writing to me, which are thus:

 

I will accept two free letters but any third letter received; would trigger the acceptance of the fact that you agree to pay me an admin fee of £50 per letter, but the third letter would also be a free letter unless I received a fourth letter related to this matter. In which case I would have to charge for ALL three ‘reminder’ letters. An invoice will be issued requesting payment within 7 days or court action would follow on the 8th day.

 

These terms are fair under the Unfair terms Act 1999 as this is for my time and expenses. Any fifth letter would trigger a harassment action under the 1997 Protection from Harassment Act, which I would be entitled to claim £5,000 in damages for mental anguish.

[rachelg735]

I have MS and am in wheelchair which means I have a disabled parking badge. We have the book detailing what the parking restrictions are in each borough but that didn't stop a Parking Attentendent in Haringay claiming to have ticketed me because I didn't have the badge on displaying! There wasn't even a ticket on my car - the first I knew about it was a demand for £100 in the post, Now they are taking me to arbitration with absolutely no evidence! I don't have any evidence either but now take my camera everywhere with me and take a photograph everytime I park to prove my badge was on display. Why do they make it so hard to do anything in this bloody country?????

[LolStevo]

I'm correct in thinking that yours was a private CP.

 

Where there any warning signs as you entered the CP or placed throughout the CP

Where you using the facilities for which the CP was provided?

 

hi mine was in mcdonalds car park, i did go into mcdonalds but also went elsewhere for a few hours, there are a few signs but i think i am right in saying if they did not put a ticket on my window then they cannot do anything??? xx

[JonCris]

Can anyone help with this situation:

 

My car was in repair at a repair garage who had in turn given me a courtesy car. Whilst having the use of the courtesy car I was issued a parking ticket from the local authority. Later, I received a separate invoice from the garage who are now charging me £23.50 for their administration charges! I could not beileve this bearing in mind I have already paid the relevant fine for the offence.

 

Can I refuse to pay the admin fee of £23.50 to the garage???

 

Can anyone help me with this one?

 

Yes!

Quote the same case law & unfair contracts act as done here for the banks

Forget what they will claim is in their T&C's of use. Even if true like the banks its an unlawful penalty charge unless the garage can prove to have sustained such a loss.

 

Ask them for a breakdown as to how they arrive at that figures just naming you as the driver on the day to the local authority ain't going to do it.

[JonCris]

Thanks for your help so far .....i have received my second notice and so i will send them a ltter back to tell them to f@k off!!

 

I am posting it below for advise before i send it off ..would be grateful for any wise words!!!

 

cheers:

 

 

RE: “Parking Charge Notice” number 0896xxxx

 

 

Many thanks for your charge notice letters, which I have only recently received. I would like you not to send any further as the basis for your charges is false.

 

• From your own documentation, the terms and conditions of entering the car park pertain to an acceptance of contract between yourselves and the driver of the vehicle. As I was not the driver at the time, this contract has never been accepted by me and is therefore void.

• Having visited your premises (on foot), I note that these terms are not clearly placed for an objective bystander to see prior to entering the premises to forewarn of such a charge, nor from a reasonable distance (given the tiny writing) to indicate that one should read it.

• I might respectfully remind you that any threat of fine before court action is illegal and therefore null and void under the Bill of Rights 1689.

I would therefore be most grateful if you would no longer contact me on this matter. If you continue to issue me with further letters, I must advise you of the terms and conditions of writing to me, which are thus:

 

I will accept two free letters but any third letter received; would trigger the acceptance of the fact that you agree to pay me an admin fee of £50 per letter, but the third letter would also be a free letter unless I received a fourth letter related to this matter. In which case I would have to charge for ALL three ‘reminder’ letters. An invoice will be issued requesting payment within 7 days or court action would follow on the 8th day.

 

These terms are fair under the Unfair terms Act 1999 as this is for my time and expenses. Any fifth letter would trigger a harassment action under the 1997 Protection from Harassment Act, which I would be entitled to claim £5,000 in damages for mental anguish.

 

Have they used the term "fine" in any of their correspondence & if so I should ask them under what statute they have the authority to "fine" anyone. Also if so their actions are unlawful

[Mr Twister]

ignorance of the law is no excuse.

 

As for the broken lines it only applies is you park between a broken line, if you park on any part of a yellow line broken or not, then you are parked illegally.

If the end of any double yellow line is not completed by a perpendicular yellow line, then they are invalid and no ticket can be issued.

[moggers]

No JonCris

 

they're wise to that old chestnut - "parking charge" all over the place (not that this is any better to be fair!)

cheers

[timwils]

A yellow line if it is substantially b r ok en or covered in snow or leaves, renders a pcn issued whilst parked on said line invalid.

[seylectric]

If the end of any double yellow line is not completed by a perpendicular yellow line, then they are invalid and no ticket can be issued.

 

The trouble is tickets ARE issued and appeals to the council almost always rejected, thus most people are conned into paying up because they don't to risk paying double or the hassle of an appeal via NPAS or whatever. It's a disgrace, the authorities regularly flaunt their own laws and as a result they are gaining tens - or probably hundreds - of millions of pounds they are not legally entitled to because their lines (or even their tickets) don't comply.

 

The only thing I can see this cash cow ending is for councils to be made to pay compensation for illegally issued ticketsd automatically but that's never going to happen.

[azegard]

hi, got pcn for parking on double yellows, could not find any sign to tell you what times if any you can park, any ideas?

[LondonPam]

Double yellow lines mean no parking at any time therefore you won't see any signs stating times.

[seylectric]

Yes, the signs they used to put up have been scrapped although I do know a road where it has signs saying no parking during summer months (forget the exact dates) adjacent to double yellow lines.

[chrismc]

The trouble is tickets ARE issued and appeals to the council almost always rejected, thus most people are conned into paying up because they don't to risk paying double or the hassle of an appeal via NPAS or whatever. It's a disgrace, the authorities regularly flaunt their own laws and as a result they are gaining tens - or probably hundreds - of millions of pounds they are not legally entitled to because their lines (or even their tickets) don't comply.

 

The only thing I can see this cash cow ending is for councils to be made to pay compensation for illegally issued ticketsd automatically but that's never going to happen.

 

So based on the fact that the tickets are actually invalid, and the Council are in fact collecting undue, or unlawful, penalties/taxes and we know that they know that we know this!! (are you still following) what do you recommend someone who has collected a PCN does if it is a 'fact' that the ticket should never have been issued in the first place?

 

Because the longer they get away with this the harder it will be to fight it!! and if the Councils are clearly in the wrong then there has to be a way of fighting them or standing up to them at the very least.

[seylectric]

That's the question, what DO you do? In Blackpool's case, Neil Herron MP is fighting this council amongst others (all the details are in the other "Your parking ticket may be unlawful" thread), when I get chance I am going to find out at what stage NPAS get involved because none of the correspondence I have had from Blackpool Council even mentioins the NPAS service - surely we have a right to know that such a service exists?

 

Blackpool's method is to reject the appeal, double the fine to £60, ignore further letters, send it to Northampton Magistrates Court and register it as a debt (at which point it goes up to £90) then send in the bailiffs. As yet I don't know where this is going because the bailiffs can't get in my house and can't (legally) take my car so they're certainly not getting paid.