un1boy - N1 issued for breach of CCA request

[un1boy]

I guess not.

 

This was just to frustrate you, i.e. put you off, it normally takes this clerks about 3/4 days to even log the correspondence. I guess he had already left instructions like if uniboys submits transcript then sent the order or else sit tight

 

I fully agree, but it's wrong, isn't it? You wouldn't expect a Judge to act like that - I am absolutely shocked. I feel like writing to the ministry of justice to ask for an inquiry about it because it's costed me loads...I won't though, just want an order in my favour.

 

Would I still be able to claim the cost of the transcript back?

[un1boy]

I fully agree, but it's wrong, isn't it? You wouldn't expect a Judge to act like that - I am absolutely shocked. I feel like writing to the ministry of justice to ask for an inquiry about it because it's costed me loads...I won't though, just want an order in my favour.

 

Would I still be able to claim the cost of the transcript back?

 

......Bump.....

[dad]

Uni,

 

Any chance of a look at the transcript - by PM if necessary.

 

dad

[humbleman]

 

Would I still be able to claim the cost of the transcript back?

 

Not sure, but here's a bump.

[un1boy]

Uni,

 

Any chance of a look at the transcript - by PM if necessary.

 

dad

 

 

Sure...do you want me to email you it?

 

to be honest, I am gonna quit. The default gets removed December 2010 anyway. This has been going on for 3 years and the whole point was just to get the default removed really - I was more than happy to pay them back, lol....that's the crazy thing.

 

I'm gonna email the sols and see if we can negotiate settlement- I can give them 2k straight away, which is just under half the total balance.

 

I know they effectively have a courrt order for all of it, but I will say to them that my costs are about 3k, so if I give them 2k will they remove the defaut and close the account.

 

I cope with it all - I'm so stressed I'm practically losing my job and its effecting my relationship.

 

What do you think will happen? they could just say no I suppose......

Edited May 27, 2009 by un1boy

[un1boy]

Dad - PM me your email address and I'll email you the transcript.

[AnimalMagic]

to be honest, I am gonna quit. The default gets removed December 2010 anyway. This has been going on for 3 years and the whole point was just to get the default removed really - I was more than happy to pay them back, lol....that's the crazy thing.

 

FWIW I've been quietly following this and I think you have done brilliantly. Don't give up! Never give up!. It is plain wrong how the banks act with our personal information and it is only through many people standing up, like you have, that things will change.

 

My wife and I have been in an 8 year battle unrelated to banking charges. There have been times it's got me down and I thought of throwing in the towel, so I know how you feel. I try to find inspiration from those who have fought far greater battles, Martin Luther King, Mahatma Ghandi, etc. Keep your focus on a positive outcome, and it will come...

 

Regards

[car2403]

FWIW I've been quietly following this and I think you have done brilliantly. Don't give up! Never give up!. It is plain wrong how the banks act with our personal information and it is only through many people standing up, like you have, that things will change.

 

I agree with the sentiment here, but we all have to consider our own challenges and situations before progressing.

 

Un1 has shown balls in getting this far, but going further could risk additional financial hardship (which you're obviously suffering, Un1, even if you don't want to admit it ) should things continue to go against the grain - we all know this is a possibility, even if we don't want to admit it to ourselves.

 

Your story is one of moral victory, even if that victory hasn't been realised in the way you envisaged. Many have came before you and many will follow, plus they will learn from your experiences, all laid bare on this thread.

 

Well done Un1, regardless of whether you go on or not.

[foolishgirl]

Seconded, car.

 

Well said, well deserved praise Uni.

[un1boy]

thanks for you posts above guys.

 

I am jsut worried because I have no idea what I am meant to be doing in 2 weeks' time during the hearing.

 

I received this letter from the bank's sols today:

 

We understand that your application for permission to Appeal will be heard at xxx court on xx june and if you are successful, the Appeal will be heard directly afterwards.

 

Given the lack of time to prepare for this, please urgently provide us with a copy of the transcript of the Hearing that was provided to you so that we may prepare further. You will also note that you must file and serve upon us your skleton argument by no later than xx

 

Now, 3 issues here:

 

1. I wasn't provided with a copy of the transcript - I paid for it, about £500 in total including the Judgement. I assume I don't have to give them a copy?

 

2. The cheeky b@stards didn't even serve their arguments for the trial hearingon me until AFTER the hearing so I was unable to prepare.....what right do they have to ask me for this?

 

3. I'm sure the order says they should be serving their skeleton arguments on me? Are they meant to have a copy of mine?

 

Any qucik advice greatfully received as this all needs to be in by Monday!! Including my authorities!!

[heliosfa]

thanks for you posts above guys.

 

I am jsut worried because I have no idea what I am meant to be doing in 2 weeks' time during the hearing.

 

Now, 3 issues here:

 

1. I wasn't provided with a copy of the transcript - I paid for it, about £500 in total including the Judgement. I assume I don't have to give them a copy?

My personal view here is that if they want it, they can pay for it themselves! Don't take this as gospel though.

 

2. The cheeky b@stards didn't even serve their arguments for the trial hearingon me until AFTER the hearing so I was unable to prepare.....what right do they have to ask me for this?

 

3. I'm sure the order says they should be serving their skeleton arguments on me? Are they meant to have a copy of mine?

I believe both sides need to have each other's skeleton arguments so that everyone knows how the trial is going to go.

 

Any qucik advice greatfully received as this all needs to be in by Monday!! Including my authorities!!

 

I've been following this for a little while un1, and I have to say it seems like the first judge messed up. Good luck with the appeal, I have a feeling you will get there!

 

 

As for the hearing, it sounds like the judge wants to hear your arguments as to why you want to appeal and if he agrees that you can, the case will be heard immediately after.

 

The appeal should be similar to before - claimant gives their "evidence"/etc. and then you defend.

 

Sorry I can't be of anymore help here, but Good luck!

H

[un1boy]

Ohh....I didn't realise that when the order says "the appeal will be heard forwith" it meant immediately after!!! :-/

 

Does that mean that it will be re-tried, or just the grounds of appeal...I have no idea and that's what's makign me wantto quit - my confidence has been knocked comepletely and I don't even seem to have support from the courts....lol

[un1boy]

Think I'm gonna email back in response to their letter saying:

 

The transcript was not provided to me, it was purschased by me for around £500. I am more than happy for you to have a copy, an will email you a copy on receipt of you paying £500. I am unsure as to why you would need it to prepare for an appeal hearing, because if the Judge hadn't ordered me to buy one, it would not be available.

 

However, strictly without prejudice and completely without liability, I would be happy to negotiate a settlement in order for both parties to move on from this as quickly as possible:

 

The total alleged balance is £4,500. I was like to offer, as a gesture of goodwill and in full and final settlement of both accounts, a cash payment of £1000.00 with the view that the accounts are closed and the defaults removed.

 

If this settlement is accepted, I would be happy to withdraw all court proceedings.

 

This offer is purely in order for both parties to move on from this situation and in order for us both to stop incurring any more costs.

 

What do you think?

[tiokim]

I am no legal minded person but I believe that the duty of disclosure is permanent and the court would expect you to provide the claimant with these documents if it is now part of your new evidence.

[un1boy]

I am no legal minded person but I believe that the duty of disclosure is permanent and the court would expect you to provide the claimant with these documents if it is now part of your new evidence.

 

It's not part of my evidence...the transcript was requested by the judge so he knew what was said...I'm not using it at all!!

[patrickq1]

i purchased my own transcript therefore it was not provided to me, it was purschased for the sum of around around £500. you may certainly have a copy provided you are willing like i am to go to the courts and purchase your own copy, an will email you a copy on receipt of you paying £500. if you would care to explain the reason as to why you would need it to prepare for an appeal hearing, because i was under instruction from the judge to purchase my transcripts ,if the Judge hadn't ordered me to buy one, it would not be available.

The total alleged balance is £4,500. I would like to repeat my offer, as gesture of goodwill and in a full and final settlement of both accounts, a payment of £1000.00 cash with the understanding that the accounts are closed and the defaults are completely removed removed.

If this settlement is accepted, I shall withdraw all court proceedings.

 

This offer is purely in order for both parties to move on from this situation and in order for us both to stop incurring any more costs

[patrickq1]

dont give up uni you ve gone to far

patrickq1

[heliosfa]

Ohh....I didn't realise that when the order says "the appeal will be heard forwith" it meant immediately after!!! :-/

 

Does that mean that it will be re-tried, or just the grounds of appeal...I have no idea and that's what's makign me wantto quit - my confidence has been knocked comepletely and I don't even seem to have support from the courts....lol

 

It sounds like the judge wants to save time, and hear your grounds for appeal first and if he feels they are adequate, re-hear the trial at the same time. I could be wrong, but Forthwith does mean Immediately/ without delay.

 

I've just had a look at the order, and it says that the respondent (Defendant) is to file a Skeleton argument and serve it on the Claimant/Pursuer.

 

Even though you are the one effectively bringing the action this time, you are still the Defendant. So it looks like you need to create a skeleton argument ASAP.

 

 

Don't let this get you down, it sounds like this judge is taking it seriously!

 

If you need any help with the SA, I am sure many people here can help!

 

H

[un1boy]

I thought I was the appelant and they were the respondent in terms of an appeal?

 

I have a skeleton argument that I sent to the court anyway.

[un1boy]

i purchased my own transcript therefore it was not provided to me, it was purschased for the sum of around around £500. you may certainly have a copy provided you are willing like i am to go to the courts and purchase your own copy, an will email you a copy on receipt of you paying £500. if you would care to explain the reason as to why you would need it to prepare for an appeal hearing, because i was under instruction from the judge to purchase my transcripts ,if the Judge hadn't ordered me to buy one, it would not be available.

The total alleged balance is £4,500. I would like to repeat my offer, as gesture of goodwill and in a full and final settlement of both accounts, a payment of £1000.00 cash with the understanding that the accounts are closed and the defaults are completely removed removed.

If this settlement is accepted, I shall withdraw all court proceedings.

 

This offer is purely in order for both parties to move on from this situation and in order for us both to stop incurring any more costs

 

Cheers...I'm going to email it over later tonight so they can consider it tomorrow.

 

Any thoughts on what will happen? Worse case they say no and the appeal goes through....best case is that they say yes and I've paid £2000 (including costs) towards a £4000 debt, which isn't too bad. Although I should have paid nothing towards it.

 

I just can't keep fighting it to be honest......emotionally or financially....

[heliosfa]

I thought I was the appelant and they were the respondent in terms of an appeal?

 

I have a skeleton argument that I sent to the court anyway.

 

I could be wrong, as my experiencce ccomes from criminal court...

 

Would be good just to check so that all of the is are dotted and ts crossed!

 

H

[dad]

Hi Un1,

 

Sorry to hear that you are feeling like giving up. As I said, at the beginning of the Appeal process, appealling is not for everyone. It requires a lot more effort than bringing an original claim. You have to be much more confident of your argument. Ultimately it is your choice alone whether to go on.

 

It seems to me that you are in quite a strong position as they cannot introduce any new evidence. So the straight forward question is was there an agreement in Court with all the prescribed terms.

 

If you are worried concentrate on that argument.

 

Part of the reason that I wanted to see the transcript is to see how you put your case across to see how to make your presentation crisper and more to the point.

 

On the transcript. the order was:

 

file and serve a transcript

 

The serve bit means you were ordered to give it to the other side. So strictly speaking they could get an unless order against you.

 

I agree with the other posters that the forthwith bit means that the judge will hear your application for permission and then go straight on to hear the appeal.

 

All the best

 

Dad

[patrickq1]

hey guys i wish i were well enuff to stand by you uni to date you have put up a good fight like dad says you can go through this and regain your composure what more can go wrong nothing more than what you are already feeling....shame cag cant find the strengh to support you in your case and be there for you and help in your presentation...you have learned so much and really have helped so many people on here,so keep at it uni it will be all over soon win loose or draw i think you do have a case its just waking up the judge and seeing through the bluff from the otherside dont forget they are learned proffesionals who cut their teeth on this stuff but they aint as honest as the day comes they are looking for get outs they are looking for excuses,surely you have to be forcefull and make the judge see that they are abusing the courts princaples and abusing peoples trust that everything is above board ...go for it mate

patrickq1

[un1boy]

Hi Un1,

 

Sorry to hear that you are feeling like giving up. As I said, at the beginning of the Appeal process, appealling is not for everyone. It requires a lot more effort than bringing an original claim. You have to be much more confident of your argument. Ultimately it is your choice alone whether to go on.

 

It seems to me that you are in quite a strong position as they cannot introduce any new evidence. So the straight forward question is was there an agreement in Court with all the prescribed terms.

 

If you are worried concentrate on that argument.

 

Part of the reason that I wanted to see the transcript is to see how you put your case across to see how to make your presentation crisper and more to the point.

 

On the transcript. the order was:

 

 

 

The serve bit means you were ordered to give it to the other side. So strictly speaking they could get an unless order against you.

 

I agree with the other posters that the forthwith bit means that the judge will hear your application for permission and then go straight on to hear the appeal.

 

All the best

 

Dad

 

Crap. I didn't give them a copy! :-/

 

To be honest, I tried emailing them and I got an out of office for the woman until jan 2010 - I tried emailing others but all came back undelivered.

 

I'll email you a copy of the transcript if you like?

 

There was an agreement, but it NO prescribed terms at all - the judge made her jugement based on the fact that she believed they would have been in the t&c's although the bank said they couldn't confirm what would have been in them at all.

 

She based this on the fact that the bank brought up the definistion section of the CCA that says:

 

“embodies” and related words shall be construed in accordance with subsection (4);

(4) A document embodies a provision if the provision is set out either in the document itself or in another document referred to in it.

 

Now, bearing in mind when he brought this up his exact words were: "I only thought of this on the train on the way up here". It wasn't in their skelton arguments (which i only got by emial at 7pm the night before the trial anyway!).

 

That was the basis of her judgement.

[un1boy]

The judge didn't even take in to account any of the authorities I had submitted! :-/

 

I just don't feel confident with going through the trial again to be honest....