Thames Credit and Yes agreement

[hedgehog0045]

Back in Dec 1999 I bought a car from Yes car credit. I had the car 3 months during which time it was off the road for 6 weeks due to serious mechanical failures. Foolishly I agreed to have the car repaired however after the 3 months it failed again and I decided to give them the car back.

 

About 2 years ago I was sent a letter from Thames credit asking for the payment of £5943 for the car. At that time I knew no better and had acknowledged the debt in terms of agreeing it was mine (but not in writing). They said I could pay it off if I paid them £2500 to settle. I could not raise taht amount of capital and just ignored their demands.

 

I have just received a telephone call from a lady at Thames hasing up payment of the £5943 again. I told herI will be sending an SAR and request for the original agreement. is there anything else I should or can do about this one?

[spiritgirl59]

Hi Hedgehog

 

You should send off your CCA request first to make sure Thames Credit DO have a copy of your "Yes" Agreement, and a properly executed copy at that. Have a good read on the forum about Consumer Credit Act agreements and what constitutes a "properly executed agreement".

 

I too am dealing with Thames Credit and so far they have not been able to supply me with one! They are now well into default and I am paying them nothing.

 

Personally I would make no more payments to Thames Credit until you have this agreement - and you are 100% sure it is the proper agreement (again you can come back on here with the information you receive and people will advise you on whether you have received a proper agreement or some hastily thrown together application form!).

 

If they DO provide you with an agreement then I would S.A.R. them.

 

Best of luck

I will watch your thread for news.

 

Spiritgirl

[Guest strangewayofsavin]

Hi Hegde, I take it you can prove you returned the car to Yes car credit as it was faulty?

If I remeber rightly did Yes car credit go into liquidation the other year? if so then the debt has been sold to Thames, and a CCA request, with a full statement of account, and how they arrive at the so say owed figure, like the post above said, if they cannot provide it, then there is no debt, and if they could legally reclaim it from you, you would have probably been in court already for it.

Do not talk to them over the phone anymore, all correspondence to be in writting, and if they keep phoning file a harrassement complaint with the OFT.

[KeefG]

When you say you acknowledged the debt but not in writing, exactly how did you acknowledge it?

 

If Thames cant prove you acknowledged it (i.e with a letter with your signature on etc) then surely this debt is statute barred?

[hedgehog0045]

Update....

 

OK Thames have today sent me a copy of the agreement and a printout from Yes with all the payments etc listed on it.

 

A couple of things bother me.

Firstly, the breakdown of payments shows a figure for 'repossession proceeds'. the car was not reposessed it was returned to yes car credit and the agremment voided.

Secondly the agreement has a figure of £6700 for the vehicle and a further figure of £3068.96 for insurances , made up of £1418 PPI, and then mechanical breakdown insurance and GAP insurance plus interest.

My concern there is that I was self employed so the PPI was missold.

 

This debt has never been acknowledged in writing. They contacted me to make an offer over the phone a couple of years ago and i said I would try to raise the funds to pay it off but I never paid or signed anything.

 

What do I do now?

[hedgehog0045]

Is it true that if you acknowledge the debt verbally then the 6 year clock starts at that time?

[KeefG]

I'm not sure to be honest, but Thames would have to prove you did acknowledge it or would it be the other way round and you would have to prove you didnt?

[hedgehog0045]

Just found this on the HMRC website -:

 

IHTM28384 - Law relating to debts: statute-barred debts

 

If a lender allows time to pass without receiving any payment an action for recovery may become barred.

 

Under the Limitations Act 1980 the time limits are

• in simple contracts, 6 years
  
• in contracts under seal, 12 years.

If the debtor acknowledges the debt in writing or makes a part payment within the original limitation period, then the time limits start to run again from the date of acknowledgement or the date of payment.

 

Even though the lender may be barred from pursuing recovery, a debtor may decide to pay the debt after the expiry of the time limits. Because of this you should allow a debt which is otherwise statute-barred if the personal representatives pay the debt and you receive evidence that the payment has been made.

[KeefG]

There's your answer!

[hedgehog0045]

I never made any payment or had any written contact regarding this since august 2000 which by my calculations makes it over the 6 years

 

Is there a standard letter for statue barred debt on the forum?

[KeefG]

Letter M on here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

[hedgehog0045]

Thanks

[powelll]

Also remember that with limitations the onus is on the creditor to prove the debt ISN'T stat. barred - no burden of proof for you which can be an important distinction. If they continue to chase you after you have written advising you believe the debt is stat. barred they will be in breach of OFT debt collection guidance.

 

You may also find below link useful:

 

National Debtline England & Wales | Debt Advice | Factsheet 25 Liability For Debts And The Limitation Act

[hedgehog0045]

Thanks Powell that helps

[hedgehog0045]

Thames Credit are ringing me regarding a staute barred debt. They are claiming that they can still enforce the debt? Is this true?? HELP!!

[tooth_fairy]

Have you acknowledged the debt in writing at all during the last 6 years?

 

If you haven't, no can do on TC's part.

 

If they call, state you are recording the call and that you are formally asking them to cease telephone contact and to direct all communication in letter, tell them that a breach of your request will result in a complaint being made to the 'relevant authorities'.

 

You should find some useful template letters in the general debt forum that might help with this one.

 

By the way, what have you said when they have called you?

[Curlyben]

If it is statute barred then they CANNOT enforce the debt at all, this doesn't stop them trying to collect on it though.

 

Time for a letter.

Send them Letter M from here and WAIT for their response: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

[hedgehog0045]

I sent them a statute barred letter from the template library and they stated that it isn't as I have had a telephone conversation back in 2004 when I said I could pay the debt in instalments but this was never in writing and no payments made. The last date of default on my credit file is 2002.

[hedgehog0045]

Apparently they are sending me the copy of a letter they sent to me regarding paying the instalments which they say is proof enough that I owe and have to pay the debt.

[Curlyben]

Telephone conversations, on the whole, DON'T count as acknowledgement must be in writing or by payment.

Now you could always request a copy of this alleged call

[sequenci]

Hello there.

 

they can send you a billion letters. the onus is on them to prove to YOU that you have written to THEM acknowledging the debt. Please take a read of the OFT guidance on debt collection, especially the section on stat barred debt and consider a complaint to OFT/TS/FOS.

 

i would respectfully ask their staff to learn the bloody limitation act too.

[tomterm8]

a complaint to OFT/TS/FOS.

 

i would respectfully ask their staff to learn the bloody limitation act too.

 

LOL.

[hedgehog0045]

Thanks for the help. The lady at TC told me she would send me the relevant paperwork and would put my account on hold !!!

 

I will let you know what they send me.

 

Thanks all

[hedgehog0045]

Received a copy of a letter allegedly sent to me after agreeing to pay the debt for half the amount. I have never agreed anything in writing and it's obvious they have no letters from me relating to this so what is my position now?

[sequenci]

write to them again asking them to prove to you that the debt isn't statute barred. point out that if they cannot do this they should stop contacting you. point out that any further correspondance could be viewed as harassment and you'll endeavour to use the complaints channels available to you such as OFT/FOS/Trading Standards.

 

Also point out that harassment of debtors is a criminal offence under s40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970.

 

you can amend this letter:

 

Your Name:

Your Address:

Date

To:

WITHOUT PREJUDICE

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Account No:

 

You have contacted me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.

 

I/we would point out that under the Limitation Act 1980 Section 5 "an action founded on simple contract shall not be brought after the expiration of six years from the date on which the cause of action accrued".

 

I/we would also point out that the OFT say under their Debt Collection Guidance on statute barred debt that "it is unfair to pursue the debt if the debtor has heard nothing from the creditor during the relevant limitation period".

 

The last correspondence/payment/acknowledgement or payment of this debt was made over six years ago and no further acknowledgement or payment has been made since that time. Unless you can provide evidence of payment or written contact from me/us in the relevant period under Section 5 of the Limitation Act, I/we suggest that you are no longer able to take any court action against me/us to recover the alleged amount claimed.

 

The OFT Debt Collection Guidance states further that "continuing to press for payment after a debtor has stated that they will not be paying a debt because it is statue barred could amount to harassment contrary to section 40 (1) of the Administration of Justice Act 1970".

 

I/we await your written confirmation that no further contact will be made concerning the above account and confirmation that this matter is now closed.

 

I/we look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

 

(Your signature)