Weymouthuk -v- Nat West

[AndyOrch]

Hi Carl

 

I have just had a quick scan through your thread If you could clarify a few points I will be able to come back with an angle on how to play NW at their own game.

1. Have you yet to calculate your charges or do you have an approx fig?

2.The default Notice you recieved I need to go through this in detail if you could perhaps post it up/give more detail?

3.Dont ring anyone anymore it serves no purpose.

4.Dont send the letter above it is not appropiate, and you would not recieve a reply.

 

Once NW issue a D/N everything moves into freeflow and even if they did agree a payment plan this will only last 6 months if lucky before they turn the thumb screw.I notice you have already had the standard NW "our patience is now running out" letter along with the usual threats.

Once said D/N is issued whether you are making mthly payments or not they can and will instigate proceedings at the drop of a hat particulaly in todays credit crunch climate,and would advise anyone im this predicament to prepare for said outcome.Providing we cover all the bases we can make their game very difficult and hopfully attain an amicable agreement to your dilemma.Talk to you soon

 

 

Regards

Andy

[WendyB]

Well that told me didn't it? lol. Told you someone would be along with some good advice.

 

The Northern Soul night was brill, had far too much to drink and my feet are still killing me. Am resting for the remainder of the weekend.....

[zootscoot]

Hi Weymouth,

 

You should not offer more than you can afford to pay. This means that you will not be able to keep to your agreement and will make court action inevitable. They are obliged under the overriding objectives of the Civil Procedure Rules to reach a settlement and seek to avoid court action. If they refuse to accept a reaonable offer and take you to court you can ask for costs to be awarded against them.

 

Natwest do accept offers after some persistence and do not generally take court action. If you make a realistic offer then you should be able to stick to it and they will have no reason to sue you. I have had a payment plan in place for 3 years without problem.

 

In the mean time you can claim your charges to pay it off.

 

All the best

 

Zoot ... another Northern soul fan!

[AndyOrch]

hi Zoot

fair coments but as yours was 3 years ago ie before the current up evil began i think you will now find their attude a lot different and all payment plans are more or less lapsed after six months.

 

 

Regards

Andy Also a N/S Fan ex wigan casino

[weymouthuk]

Hi Andy

 

I calculate £2645.00 precisely in charges I could claim back which more than covers my overdraft. Having said that, this figure was gained from statements calculated about a week before the OFT case started, since then there have been more charges piled on so it will likely be higher now. What do you need to know about the Default Notice? Let me know and I will tell you.

 

Thanks

Carl.

[zootscoot]

Hi Carl,

 

You could always defend any action on the grounds that the charges are unlawful and issue a counterclaim for any extra that is owing to you. If you have had a default added to your credit file you can apply to have this removed also.

 

All the best

 

Zoot

[AndyOrch]

Hi Carl

 

Ok firstly the Default note you recieved (Overdraft D/N differ to a normal C/C Loan Default Notices).

Is it headed Served under section76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA 1974

Does it contain yours and theirs full address and postal code?

Account Number?

Date of termination of overdraft and date required to pay in full?

This should be 14 days and stated in full.

The principle amount outstanding plus any interest to that date? which obviously we know contains penalty charges? Which renders said D/N invalid and most importantly Unenforcable.

Then the usual finishing statement of options open to yourself to request more surety etc etc....and seek legal advice.

Now attached to the D/N their should be a cover letter entitled ...

Formal Notice of Intention to file a default and take action to recover debt allowing 28 days from the date of said letter to propose satisfactory payment or arrangements etc etc

This basically notifies you and the CRA,s of the default now placed.

 

Ok so far?

 

Now the letter you recieved on the 29th Nov 2007 Apart from the threats what options are open to you? or does it say proceedings will comence and who does it ask you to contact if at all?

By the way

Sequestration means the act or process of legally confiscating somebody's property temporarily until a debt that person owes is paid, a dispute is settled, or a court order obeyed. Are they nice people to deal with!!!!!! Lol

 

Now you can either proceed with your claim following the suggested method here on CAG using the Template section Will cost you £120.00 to submit by the way and will be stayed following the outcome of the OFT case Jan /Feb 2008

Or IMHO let them instigate at their cost with a D/N thats invalid and contains unlawful penalty charges and you refute the claim with your defence should we edge are bets?

 

just one more point carl you state the account is still subject to charges

surely they have terminiated and so now static? I presume you are making payments from an alternative bank a/c not NW?

 

f you can confirm the above points and Just ask if you need anything else

 

I trust the above is useful in making your decision and wish you well with the outcome.

 

Ps Wendy i did not intend to come over as headmaster and repect the advice you have offered and supported to carl up to now.Hope your feet are better with all those backdrops

 

 

Best Regard

 

Andy

[zootscoot]

Just to add that you do still pay a fee if you issue a counter claim

[AndyOrch]

Not if its part of your defence ie Defence/c/c and they have instigated proceedings.

[zootscoot]

A counter claim must always be paid for. A counter claim will always be issued as part of a defence otherwise it is simply a claim

 

Fees

[AndyOrch]

Hi Zoot

Resolved the confusion Ive edited out the Issue a c/claim it should be refute the claim not issue a counter claim

 

 

Andy

[zootscoot]

So do you mean simply defend or do you mean to strike out the claim?

 

If the charges are greater than the overdraft then a counter claim in part would be required would it not?

[AndyOrch]

Well if you read the thread it varies from even to greater by carl so he would have to verify the approx figure if its even then i would advise to strike out

[weymouthuk]

Hi Andy

 

Thanks for your advice. My answers to your questions are as follows.

 

The D/N is headed 'Notice served under sections 76(1) and 98(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974'

 

It is to this letter and notice that I first responded by letter sent recorded delivery with my offer which was completely ignored.

 

The latest letter is

 

My address and the branch address are on it along with my account number and sort code.

 

The termination date is in numbers '07/10/07', not letters.

 

The outstanding or 'Principal' amount is shown along with 'Interest to the date shown above' and this has a small Crucifix next to it which later on the notice indicates 'Interest will continue to be applied to the account and the Total Amount Outstanding will increase accordingly, if payment is not made by the date shown above'.

 

The Principal amount has an asterisk next to it which later on in the notice indicates 'Principal includes the £30.00 fee charged for this notice while will be applied to the account before the date shown above'.

 

It is to this letter that I responded by Recorded letter with my offer which was completely ignored.

 

The latest letter dated 27/11/07 reads.

 

Please telephone us immediately on the number quoted in this letter to arrange repayment of your unsatisfactory debt, as the full balance is due immediately. Telephone lines are open from 8.00 am to 9.00 pm Weekdays and 9.00 am to 5.00pm on Saturdays and Sundays. We are able to accept debit Debit and Credit card payments.

 

You can make payents into your account via our Internet payment facility. Log on to www.natwest.com/paybycard to make direct payments for your credit/debit card into your accounts.

 

Failure to respond will result in us either commencing legak action or instructing Debt Collection Agents to recover the money due. As a result we may:-

 

- Secure the debt against your property by way of a Court Order. Should a charge be obtained over your property, then we may take repossession proceedings and sell the property.

- Pass your debt to a firm of debt collectors.

- Commence court action to secure payment from your employer direct from your income.

- Apply for bankruptcy/sequestration.

 

Yours sincerely

 

The amount now outstanding is £1681.47 which is clearly down following my previous payment only a week earlier when I set up an instruction to pay them £75.00 monthly.

 

I am now with a different bank and I do believe charges have indeed frozen. To be honest even after I cancelled all Standing Orders and Direct Debits on the Natwest account they still continued to charge me.

 

As I said earlier, I'm open to go to a CCJ. I know it's not the best thing to have against my name but I would rather put the bastards in front of a judge who can see that I'm doing the best I can.

 

On the other hand Andy, I'm fired up to take them on as you suggest. Your comments would be much appreciated.

 

Carl.

[weymouthuk]

Perhaps I should send another Data request letter and get the most up to date set of figures?

[WendyB]

Hi Weymouth, looks like you're in safe hands now:) All this counterclaiming stuff is past my area of knowledge, although I will say that when we nearly got repossessed about 10 years ago (LTSB) I did attend court, all very informal, took loads of paperwork with me to show what efforts we'd been making to clear the debt, and the Judge was very sympathetic, took everything into account and didn't let them repossess us. It seemed scary but wasn't when I actually got there.

 

It would seem to me, though, (and I could be wrong!) that this might be a quicker way to get your charges back, by letting them take you to court then defending, as a charges claim alone would more than likely be stayed. So this way you'll be getting to court earlier, possibly, albeit through the back door. Good luck anyway, I'll nip in from time to time to see how you're getting on.

 

Andy - what are you on about, backdrops??? I'm too old for that now, left it to the professionals.

[AndyOrch]

Hi Carl

I presume you have already requested S.A.R with no reply as yet?

On the default note payment of Default should read payment required by giving 14 days to rectify.

Is the second letter actually from NW them selves and not in house sol /colections? What address is it from Telford?

Its imperative that you maintain reasonable payments in the meantime and that you retain and gather a papertrail if needed.

I have to go out shortly but will be back later this evening I think a letter of reply should be drafted to letter of 27th in the form of letter before LBA

to register your complaint to the conduct of your account , just so you have it in your papertrail.If you have time today perhaps you could look at the one in the templates section and prepare ready to post in reply.

 

speak soon

 

regards

Andy

[weymouthuk]

Hi Andy

 

The Default note overdraft termination date is definately numbers. Does this have a major impact? This letter came from the NatWest Birmingham Collections Centre.

 

The letter that followed came from Tamarisk Debt Management, also in Birmingham, part of Royal Bank of Scotland.

 

The latest letter (27/11/07) is from Telford Credit Management Services and on Natwest headed paper.

 

Carl.

[weymouthuk]

Hi All

 

Just really wanted some opinions on what my next course of action should be. Do I:

 

1. Keep up the repayments and risk the court papers landing on the doorstep and then defend the claim?

 

or

 

2. Go ahead with the claim for charges myself and keep up the repayments I'm already making?

[weymouthuk]

Hi Folks

 

I've just had a read through my thread and something doesn't sit right for me. I feel it would be prudent to make the effort to engage with Natwest if only to get something other than a template letter out of them.

 

To this end I have drafted a much less aggressive letter than my previous attempt and your comments would be appreciated. Come what may, if I've sent this, surely it shows I've done the best I can?

 

Carl.

 

 

Dear Sirs

 

I write further to your letter of 27/11/07. I am aware of the outstanding balance on my overdraft and am willing to pay this balance off.

 

I have visited your website (www.natwest.com/paybycard) and set up an instruction to pay £75.00 per month against this debt. Unfortunately your most recent letter does not acknowledge this at all.

 

Under my current level of income, £75.00 per month is the absolute maximum I can afford. That said, I am soon moving to a new job with a higher salary and I will be pleased to increase this amount as the funds become available. I would however advise you that, for now, the £75.00 per month instruction I have set up with you is the most I can afford.

 

This will be the third letter I have written to NatWest in relation to this matter in an attempt to enter into a sincere dialogue. The previous two letters I sent were not acknowledged at all. Both detailed my offer of £75.00 per month. I visited your paybycard website as instructed and set up an agreement. I have however received no personal response from you indicating that you are not satisfied with this amount or that you wish to come to an arrangement without the neccesity of involving the courts which I have attempted to do twice already and a third time with this letter. Instead I have been sent what I can only assume are standard template letters, and I hardly think this can be considered sincere.

 

I am in full time employment and in a position to make regular payments against the outstanding amount and let me assure you, it is my absolute intention to pay off this debt and I feel confident that I have made the necessary effort to address this matter suitably, courteously and in a timely manner.

 

Taking these points into account, the commencement of legal proceedings could be counter to the ‘Overriding Objectives’ of the new Civil Procedure Rules. You will be aware that the Overriding Objectives underpin everything the court does. Moreover, paragraph 4 of the Protocols Practice Direction states that in cases not covered by an approved pre−action protocol, the court will expect the parties “to act reasonably…….. in trying to avoid the necessity for the start of proceedings”.

 

I would respectfully suggest that your failure to respond to my letters, to not enter into a sincere dialogue and not accept my offer could be viewed as unreasonable and (if necessary) I would ask the court to consider these matters with reference to the Overriding Objectives.

 

The offer of £75 per month is of course still open to you to accept and I eagerly await your personal response in this matter accordingly.

 

Yours faithfully

[weymouthuk]

Oh, forgot to say. My priority is agreeing a repayment plan with them. I cant put reclaiming charges that will likely be stayed pending OFT as a priority, that would be suicide.

[zootscoot]

Thats a great letter!

 

It demonstrates to the court that you have done everything to co-operate and have acted reasonably. Often when claims go to court the court ends up awarding monthly payments of less than has been offered and the courts are not sympathetic to banks which take up the courts time when they should have accepted an offer. In all probability, its likely that the letter you received on the 29th crossed with your setting up of payment so hopefully they won't be issuing proceedings against you. If they do you can always defend on the basis of unlawful charges.

 

Its worth getting an updated list of charges so that you can get your claim for charges moving.

 

All the best

 

Zoot

[AndyOrch]

Hi Carl

Just come on Letter looks good if that the direction you wish to go

 

 

Andy

[weymouthuk]

Zoot

 

Thank You! At last some positive encouragement which leaves me feeling all relieved. I hope you are right regarding the crossed letters but I will send this anyway. Who knows, maybe if this gets through to them I may not need pawn my Rolex after all

 

Carl.

[zootscoot]

cant put reclaiming charges that will likely be stayed pending OFT as a priority, that would be suicide.

 

Its worth doing a preliminary letter and LBA so that your claim is in their system. They can not then raise the Limitation Act to any charges which are outside the 6 year period since your first letter demanding payment.