Cardiff directions hearings *POST HERE*

[olden]

thanks again welshcakes thats a great help!

 

nickieee I have exactly the same Judgement order at 10.30am at Cardiff Civil Justice Centre ! I am about to prepare the Draft Directions with an accompanying letter, as you can see welshcakes is my mentor!!!!!

[welshcakes]

Hi Nicki

 

You only need to send in a letter if you're not going to be there in person. If that is the case send:

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

 

 

xxxx v BARCLAYS BANK PLC

In the CARDIFF COUNTY COURT

CLAIM No:*******

 

I, the Claimant, refer to the claim as detailed above and specifically the Preliminary hearing scheduled for **/**/**.

 

I wish offer my apologies to the honourable court for my non-attendance at this hearing, which is due to [GIVE YOUR REASON FOR NOT ATTENDING]. As such, pursuant to the order made by district judge ****** on **/**/**, I wish to make my written representations as to how this claim should proceed.

 

If the court is in agreement, the Claimant respectfully suggests that directions could be made as per the attached draft order.

 

If ordered, the Claimant believes these directions will allow the overriding objective's to be furthered in that they will fully identify the most fundamental issues in dispute (as detailed below), and allow them to be assessed so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously.

 

- The crux upon which this claim rests is the true cost incurred by the Defendant as a result of the contractual breach from which its charges arise. If the Defendant cannot substantiate the cost of each charge as proportionate to its loss incurred, it has charged contractual penalties contrary to the UTCCR 1999 and common law principles established since the early 1900's.

 

- In the event that the Defendants charges were accepted as being a fee for a service (which is denied), examination of its true costs is required to determine whether the price is reasonable as required by the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

 

As the law relating to contractual penalties is long established, the Claimant believes the outstanding issues to be of fact. Accordingly, the Claimant respectfully requests that the claim be allocated to the small claims track, and estimates that the hearing of the claim should last no longer than one hour.

 

A copy of this letter and draft directions has also been sent to the Defendant.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

Then send it with the DRAFT DIRECTIONS in this link http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/53570-new-strategy-allocation-questionnaires.html?highlight=new+strategy

 

 

Send a copy of letter and DD to Barclays as well.

 

Edit * You don;t need to send in your court bundle as this is only a Directions.

[nickieee]

thanks for the swift response again i am planning on attanding so i defo dont need to send anything???? i just turn up on the day with the drft order. thats ok then except i dont know what a draft order is lol is it the one saying

 

In the XXXXXX County Court

Claim number XXXXXX

 

 

 

 

 

 

Between

 

 

XXXXXXXX - Claimant

 

 

and

 

 

 

XXXXX - Defendant

 

 

 

 

 

Draft Order for Directions

 

 

The Claimant shall within 14 days of service of this order send to the Defendant and to the Court:

• a) A schedule setting out each charge repayment of which is sought, showing the date, amount, and reason given (if any) for that charge being made;

• b) Copies of any statement or other document relied upon as showing that each and every charge has been made;

• c) A statement of evidence of all matters relied upon as tending to show that the charges are irrecoverable as penalties or otherwise;

• d) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

If the Claimant fails to comply with this order, the claim will be struck out without further order.

 

 

 

2. The Defendant shall within 14 days thereafter file and serve a response to the Claimant's schedule, stating in respect of each item claimed;

• a) Pursuant to what contractual provision such charge was made, producing a copy of the contractual document relied upon;

• b) Whether such charge is accepted to be a penalty, and if not why not;

• c) If such charge is alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant's loss incurred by the Claimant's actions (whether or not such action is treated as a breach of contract between the parties), all facts and matters intended to be relied upon as showing that such was a proper estimate of such loss, and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to what the true cost of dealing with the matter was;

• d) If such charge is not alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant's loss incurred by the Claimant's actions then facts and matters intended to be relied upon showing the basis upon which the charge was calculated and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to show that the charge was fair and reasonable.

• e) Any witness statements.

• f) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

If the Defendant fails to comply with this order, the Defence will be struck out without further order.

 

if thats the case then all is ok if not i am screwed lol

[welshcakes]

Don't forget a copy of your original claim (POC), and 3 up to date copies of your Schedule of Charges (in case they want to settle going through the door!)

[smutley]

Well in view of whats been happening Southend and now the OFT case I wonder if our hearing date will even happen..... but I am now panicing like mad as I have just redone my schedule of charges and to my horror realised that I have overcharged my interest by around 1K... the figure I put on my N1 Claim Form are correct but when I calculated the interest (all by myself as I didnt know this site existed at that time) I sort of miscalculated with the formula!! Do you think it matters, would it not be the case that Barclays would have to prove different and as they did not offer any proof that my figures were true pre-estimates or is all this irrelevant now that OFT are making a case???

[welshcakes]

Smutley,

 

As long as your N1 figures are correct, and there is evidently a significant difference with the SOC figure, you should be fine as it will be classed as an unwitting error-come typo (you wouldn't believe the amount of them made by solicitors in Statements and POCs).

 

I would suggest you send in updated SOCs to both court and bank - as your POC doesn't change, you won't be charged. At the end of the day, the Prelim and LBA requests you made were for the correct amount and it has entered into court correctly with you confirming these figures correctly on your POC.

 

The SOC is a secondary document and has not yet been relied upon by either party as the basis for Claim or Defence argument.

 

Was theer anything in B's Defence that made particular reference to your Schedule of Charges figure? If not, my guess is they havn't done anymore than glance at it before printing out their standard Defence.

[smutley]

Thanks Welshcakes, my B's Defence looks like the standard one with no reference to to my figures... do you think it would be ok to take along to the court my updated SOCs so not to drawn Barclays attention to my mistake prior to the hearing?

[welshcakes]

Hi Smutley

 

No, I would most definitely furnish B's with a correct copy. If you do so prior to any hearing then the error cannot be used to damage or delay your claim.

 

All you have to do is send B's BLT a copy with a covering letter referring to it as an update copy of your SOC for their records. Even if they do bother to look at it before adding it to their file on your claim, they have no redress as it hasn't affected the validity of or case on which your claim has been brought.

 

It will also avoid an embarassing moment if, further down the line, you had to explain to the court why you have provided them with different figures to those you've given the other party; keep everything up front and on the level, just don't draw attention to it by mentioning "incorrect" or "error" in your covering letter, instead use the word "updated".

[smutley]

Thanks for all the excellent advice ... will definately do an updated SOC and post off to B's and court over the next few days. Look forward to meeting you on the 14th !!! Jenny

[smutley]

feeling a bit of a prat now, just been reading through my particulars of claim on the N1 form and I actually put ..

 

THE DEFENDANT FROM FEB 2001 TO PRESENT DAY HAS APPLIED CHARGES TO THE CLAIMANTS ACCOUNT TOTALLING NOT MORE THAN £2,851.09 (SEE ATTACHED SHEETS) THE CLAIMANT ALSO CLAIMS INTEREST UNDER SECTION 69,,,,,,, AT THE RATE OF 8% A YEAR FROM THE DATES THAT EACH OF THE ANNUAL CHARGES WERE MADE (AS ITEMISED ON THE ATTACHED SHEETS) TOTALLING £1,692.90 MAKING THE TOTAL CLAIM FOR £4,543.99

 

So my actual claim has been made for charges plus my exagerated interest... sorry to be such a pain, but by sending in my 'updated' SOC which will make the amount claimed less, will this still be ok?

 

Im going to bed now as the more I re read and re read Im driving myself nuts... will check in again tomorrow

[everybodiesmum]

I miscalculated my interest too. On June 8th. I completed a new N1 (Claim Form) and an N244 (application Notice) Its still with the judge, who's been on leave. I spoke to Cardiff this morning and the listings office assured me they would be returned in time.

 

I asked the clerk about the banks going to the High Courts, and he said it would not affect us, as it would take at least a year for a ruling and to carry on as we were. The newspapers are predicting two years!!!

regards to you all

Everybodiesmum

[welshcakes]

Hi Smutley

 

Where you have made a significant error in POC (and stating incorrect amounts on claim would be deemed significant), you need to send in an amended POC. I would recommend that you take this opportunity to completely revamp your POC...

 

Since you will be paying the fee for amendment of POC, you may as well take full advantage and use the new POCs just posted on CAG : http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/107604-new-poc-n1-barclays.html.

 

Obviously double and triple check that you fill in correct figures as well and you should be okay. Again, you will attach the amended SOC as standard.

[smutley]

Thanks Welshcakes, will take your advice and get the new amended POC into Court next week. (is there a special form for amendment or is it the same form I did before?) To clarify, on the Claim form do I put the total claimed to include the interest or just the charges and attach the SOC. Also as I get working tax credits I was exempt from fees last time so hopefully this will apply to the amendment.

[welshcakes]

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/n244_0400.pdf

 

The new POCs require you to list out:

 

Charges

Overdraft Interest (if applicable, if not delete)

8%

Court Fees

 

Not sure of the position of exemption from N244 fee but I should imagine if you qualify for exemption, it is blanket and you will not have to pay the £65 fee- http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/ex160a_0406.pdf

[smutley]

pain in the butt again here.... on the amended POC and SOC can I bring the claim up to date, ie include charges incurred since my original claim or should I just keep the period claim exactly the same as before.?

[welshcakes]

lol Smutley,

 

There's nothing wrong and everything right about asking - add any recent charges, that's one of the positives about amending a claim.

[smutley]

cheers welshcakes... a busy weekend for me ahead!! drinks on me on the 14th

[SPONGEBOBSQUAREPANTS!]

Hi Smutley, Just a quick question, which judge are you before and do you think what happened today will affect your claim? In other words do you think you will get your dosh back????

[smutley]

hi sponge....pants.... my Judge is Hickinbottom on the 14th... Directions Hearing.... It makes sence now why when I phoned Thomas Hickey from the Lit team several weeks ago he said settlement within 2 weeks, then when I rang to chase he denied all knowledge of ever saying that also that he had no knowledge of anyone elses claim being settled and also to get my paperwork ready for court, I think he already knew that there was something in the pipeline, just a shame that OFT didnt pass on the news to us at the same time.. but there you go, the Banks (Barclays) getting preferential treatment....getting my dosh back, I'd like to think so.. never say die!

[kalujo123]

I am in cardiff on the 14th AUGUST up against barclaycard on 3 accounts. When i spoke to them around 1 month ago they suggested to me that they would be settling towards the end of july. When i spoke to them a few days ago they changed their mind and told me that they will have representation at court, this brings me to the conclusion that because of this test case brought on by the OFT they can use a waiver and that is why they are attending court. This is what i copied from OFT website

"

11. What happens to those wanting to, or in the process of reclaiming charges while the case is going on?

It will be for the courts to decide in relation to claims made to them.

The Financial Services Authority has issued a 'waiver' from its complaints handling rules. This action means that until the test case is resolved any bank or building society that applies for the waiver will not be required to handle complaints relating to unauthorised overdraft charges.

The UTCCRs law is one factor that the Financial Ombudsman Service must take account of when making its decisions. As this action is expected to provide certainty about the law, the Financial Ombudsman Service has decided not to progress complaints about current account charges until the outcome of the legal action is known."

 

With this thrown in does anyone know if they will be able to use this "WAIVER" as we are already at court stage. I think this is what is going to happen on the 14th AUGUST and we will all be waiting a long time for this high court case from the oft to have an outcome, therefore not getting our money for some time, What are everybody's thoughts?

[clubber]

Yes Barclays have clammed up. It appears we are all in the same boat ie without the paddle of experiences shared to steer along our individual paths.. no one has been here and so we're all p**sed off.

 

I had Mr Quinn promising an email from Monday onwards, my court date is 8th august but I am away from tomorrow,emma thompson re-iterated Quinns promise when it was only her who would pick up the phone.

 

I'm gutted!!!!!!!!!! So I rang customer relations who have honoured my initial settlement figure (SORRY DAR£IN TO CONTRADICT YOU WHEN YOU SAID " They will NOT honour their offer if you intend to continue! in a nother thread) because they have (it was for 1495 against a claim of 1605). I lose interest and £120 court costs but i am confident of claiming that back from MCOL.

 

I have also rung the court who have no directions to halt existing hearings, Barc lays have not filed bundle and I have so i will cancel previous settlement on Tuesday after weighing up court update with the 1495 to fall back on...think everyone and weigh it up based on your own circs.

 

im still in the running and lets face it who even thought about 8 or 37% interest, we just wanted the dosh back....ps DAR£in no offence mate your contributions have been inspirational but we would all do well to not get carried away with the tide if success on here previously and think of ourselves..and I should know I ve been victim of the cant lose school of thought myself!

[olden]

kalujo you give me hope just when I thought we were up the creek without a paddle, and now I am confused since clubber does seem to be getting there by contacting Barclays Litigation, I was taking welshcakes advice and not contacting again, but does this situation change anything welshcakes?

 

I have been thinking, if Barclays are suddenly saying that they are attending on 14th August( as they have said in email to me) then do you think it is because of the OFT, and could they be planning to ask for a waiver? if so would it be an idea as there are so many of us appearing at 10.30 on that day, if we hired a solicitor? depending on all chipping in to the cost, what sort of fee is it for this osrt of representation? I think that a solicitor would object to any such thing, surely there must be legal terms for raising objections, even in the fact about the chaos it would ring with the thousands of cases getting blocked up for two years?

[welshcakes]

Hi Olden

 

I still can't see the benefits of contacting BLT at this point for anyone whose claim comes under the Directions hearing of 14th August. Barclays were not agreeing settlement of these claims prior to the OFT Test Case announcement and sure as heck won't have changed their position.

 

Like everyone else, I'm still piecing together information & news as it comes through on a daily basis; as it stands today, the Cardiff outlook leans heavily towards a general Stay of all cases being made by the judge.

 

Where the judge attempts to further Order that claims be mass reallocated into Fast Track (wherein the claimant risks costs against) then there is cause for appeal and I will if necessary being doing this in the strongest of terms to keep claims (where under £5k) under the prtection of the Small Claims jurisdiction.

 

I've been looking for angles to argue against the rule of Stay being appropriate for our claims however the Civil Procedure Rules and Regs are pretty tight on this however I'll keep searching archives for any useful case history though.

[olden]

hi welshcakes I was just editing my post. What do you think? I dont really understand, if the judge has deliberately massed this 10.30 hearing, has he already decided to ask for a 'stay'? and does a stay merely mean he can postpone the case for however long he wishes. I also thought that anything under £5000. should only be heard in the small claims courts

[welshcakes]

Well Olden, I can't support using a solicitor myself. Having friends who are solicitors, a QC, Magistrates etc my view of the value of paying for legal representation at a hearing such as this (and with so many overriding influences) is that it wouldn't make a jot of difference.

 

If a Stay is coming you can be sure the judge has already drawn up the Order and he will not want to waste time entertaining any arguements put forward by a soli trying to 'undermine' the wisdom of judgement to Stay.

 

Regards the right to have your claim heard in Small Claims, yes this is something that I find to have legal basis because it has serious financial implication for self litigating claimants who elected to use Small Claims knowing that they do not have the legal or financial means to safely seek justice outside of it.

 

I find it appalling that a judge recently announced to a mass hearing of claimants that he was placing all their claims in Higher Court and that it would be okay if they lost because they would all share the banks costs equally amongst themselves! (paraphrased).

 

I can tell you now, I would have organised a peaceful but rather noisy demonstration outside of his court if it had been my case!