A can of worms ?

[PriorityOne]

The lovely chaps in DCA land have attempted to comply with my CCA request (received in January) by sending an application form, along with a statement to say that if I do not arrange a "repayment plan", that they will be taking "further action".

 

I had been paying this debt in token payments for several years.... until discovering the CAG. When they defaulted on the CCA, I cancelled the Standing Order and heard nothing. In fact, I heard nothing in response to my CCA request either, up until today.

 

However, I have been concerned re. the legalities of their procedure on this account since receiving my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) info. back from the original creditor, which details an outstanding balance of just over £10 :o .... made up of a charge ... and not for the thousands that they were claiming on the basis of the ref. that they have. This appears to be the only account ref. held by the DCA..... and the only account ref. sold by assignment (S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)) and suggests that they have collected a huge amount from me in unlawful payments over the past few years... which I now want substantiated.

 

With this in mind, I sent a letter off yesterday, detailing the following :

 

That I have never received a Notice of Assignment.... requesting proof it was received by me ?

 

That the balance upon transfer/sale of this account by the OC is incorrect (I can prove this with a final statement on the account before closure).... which would invalidate a D of A anyway.

 

I have provided a complete statement of all payments made by myself over several years.... to highlight my record-keeping, in case it's needed for court.

 

Reminded them of their responsibilities under the CCA, the Data Protection Act and the Law of Property Act... quoting relevant sections....

 

Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated..... otherwise, watch this space.

 

[tooth_fairy]

Which DCA is this PriorityOne?

I do hope you get some money back, sounds like you are entitled to it, how much do you think you have paid over the years?

[PriorityOne]

Hi toothfairy,

 

I'm keeping the name of the DCA off here for now.... as I know they read up on here... but I've paid lots, which I expect them to justify. If I get something back, then it'll be a bonus... and due to them not having their paperwork in order.

 

I know how they came to get the figure that they have... which is why it was never queried before, but no-one appears to have any docs. to support that because the account is so old.... so if they do decide to pursue court action, they should be in deep do-do.

 

[tooth_fairy]

Ok PriorityOne, I think I have an idea of who you mean!

 

Good on you for going after what you believe is right, I'm not too savvy on laws and without CAG I'd have been really lost but I admire you for taking on this DCA and I hope that you do get ALL of the monies they have taken from you that don't make up the original debt.

 

TF x

[sequenci]

have you sent a SAR to the dca?

[PriorityOne]

have you sent a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to the dca?

 

As yet, no. The SAR went to the OC.... who don't keep CCAs beyond 6 years, apparently. They may do now.... but they didn't then. If the DCA does have a CCA for this account or any other, I am sure I would have received it/them by now.

 

Also, if they do manage to get any docs. from the OC now.... then it begs the question as to why the OC failed to send them to me as part of my SAR. They have told me that they have sent all data....

[rory32]

If all your wanting from the DCA is a financial list of charges and payments, you can ask them for a statement of account. They can not charge for this and are legally obliged to give it to you.

[PriorityOne]

They have not responded to my CCA request, but I had the application form through this morning on that account. They have never supplied me with a list of payments made.... fortunately, I have kept my own.

 

They would be very foolish to take me to court without the docs they need... especially when I can prove that there was a huge discrepancy in the amount (allegedly) assigned by the OC... and the amount outstanding as detailed on my final statement from the OC.

 

If they have the docs., then fair enough. If they don't, then I need some answers...

[diskmandave]

Just subscribing for the fight

[tomterm8]

I am no longer welcome on CAG

[PriorityOne]

I would suggest contacting the local police station with your documents, and informing the police that you believe that the company is attempting to obtain money by deception.

 

I doubt that the police would get involved in this one.... but it's worth considering. Do you know if anyone else has has any success with involving the police in debt issues ?

 

The DCA will have to react one way or another to the points I have raised.... they can either (attempt to) justify their actions with the correct paperwork or, refund me and I will drop everything.

 

The ball is in their court....

[tomterm8]

I am no longer welcome on CAG

[PriorityOne]

Any comments on the following draft letter/S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) would be appreciated....

 

To date, all I have had from these muppets is a microfiche copy of an Application Form.... no Notice of Assignment... no Fair Processing Notice.... no CCA..... no statements of payments received by them over a period of several years. In all, no proof of any right to collect what they have collected, over the period of time that they have collected it. I am now getting almost daily attempts to reach me by 'phone, (which I am logging ).... but nothing in writing.

 

The format is for a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request).... but if anyone thinks I should seperate the SAR from other comments in the letter, please say. Here goes :

 

 

I do not acknowledge any debt to your company.

 

Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my entire history with your organisation. Alternatively, a complete set of statements for that period will be acceptable.

 

Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require full disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or any other evidence of manual intervention in relation to my entire history with your organisation, including :

Documentary evidence of the Notice of Assignment that was issued to me upon Assignment of this account, including proof of its delivery to my home.

Documentary evidence of the Fair Processing Notice that was issued to me upon Assignment of this account, including proof of delivery to my home.

Confirmation of the alleged outstanding balance upon Assignment of this account to yourselves.

Full details of all transactional, administration or any other charges that may have been levied to the above account, since its Assignment to yourselves.

Full details of the date and time of all attempts to contact me by telephone, together with full details of all conversational transcripts.

Full details of any attempts by your representatives to visit me at my home, if appropriate.

 

 

If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention or that the documents do not exist, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. This is a legal request for information and you have 40 days within which to comply.

 

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you over four years in order to communicate with me, visit me, attempt to contact me by telephone and from which you have collected monies allegedly due and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

In addition to the above, I also require details of your Complaints Procedure, together with your Consumer Credit Licence number. If you do not hold a Consumer Credit Licence, then I require your confirmation.

 

Please be advised that I will only communicate with you in writing. Should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you.

 

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so, then you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.

 

To date, your company remains in breach of my legal request for a Consumer Credit Agreement (Consumer Credit Act 1974), received by you on xx/xx, 2007 and has now committed a criminal offence with continued attempts to pursue me for an alleged debt by letter (xx/xx/2007) and by telephone (dates to be suppplied) on the basis of an illegible, microfiche copy of an Application Form.

 

Therefore, to this end I will not enter into any further communications with your company on this matter, unless and until my request is actioned.

 

In any case, I look forward to your response to this Data Subject Access Request, within the next 40 days. Alternatively, a full refund of £x,xxx will be acceptable.

 

Yours faithfully,

[clutchingatstraws]

This may be of use

 

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts2006/ukpga_20060035_en.pdf

[rory32]

has now committed a criminal offence

They have committed a summary criminal offence.

 

What type of account is this P1?

[gizmo111]

I would seperate the SAR from the other points.

They can still chase the debt, it still exists they just cannot enforce it in court until they produce the original agreeement.

You need to contact Trading standards with regard the non compliance.

[PriorityOne]

The account they have been collecting on is actually a current account... which makes their CCA default a bit iffy. However, it's closing balance was only £13.52 overdrawn.... due to a charge. So, one way or another... they have stuffed up by having the wrong paperwork.

 

I assumed that they must have had other accounts passed to them in order to come after me for such a sum....hence the CCA... but it seems not.... or if they did, they have not provided any evidence of them. Although the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) from the OC details other accounts, there are no details of any other accounts that were sold.

 

This is a very old account..... but if they are able to substantiate their right to collect one way or another on any other accounts.... the SAR to the DCA will probably reveal a high number of charges to bring the balance right down on these.

 

Alternatively, since the DCA has never pursued me with reference to any other account numbers...(which were a loan and cc), the others should be close to statute-barred, or already statute-barred by now anyway.

 

Either way, I need to know....

[PriorityOne]

I would seperate the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) from the other points.

 

Will do that, Gizmo....

[PriorityOne]

Ok.... I have split the SAR request from the other stuff and written a separate "Complaint" letter, requesting their procedure and so on... in order to eventually get the ball rolling with the FOS.

 

Am really begrudging putting another tenner in their pockets for the SAR though....

[Josie8]

subscribing

[shaniannie]

subscribing too

[Curlyben]

So, I assume from reading your thread that you have paid these nice "people" WAY more than the outstanding amount.

Surely the police could get involved as this is theft or obtaining money by deception !!!

[PriorityOne]

So, I assume from reading your thread that you have paid these nice "people" WAY more than the outstanding amount.

Surely the police could get involved as this is theft or obtaining money by deception !!!

 

I doubt the police would do anything... I need to push for comfirmation that their was no Notice of Assignment all those years ago and if there was, that it was invalid anyway. Incorrect balance owed on the account upon Assignment... penalty charge on the final statement... and so on. There are no details of any Notice of Assignment in the SAR paperwork from the OC... and I certainly don't remember receiving one. It went to an in-house DCA before being sold anyway.... so they will have a job locating any paperwork.

 

I am requesting the Complaints Procedure first... and going down that road. Even if the police were to take an interest, I doubt that they would investigate it for me. Rightly or wrongly, I don't consider it as being fraudulent at this stage.... just negligent. They have stuffed up the paperwork in the belief that they would never be challenged.... a common occurrence on this site.

 

Hello to all subscribers....

[clutchingatstraws]

Don't forget you can claim back the tenner if they are processing your data without proper authority.

[PriorityOne]

Don't forget you can claim back the tenner if they are processing your data without proper authority.

 

 

Thanks for that... ..... although I realise that they won't give anything up without a long, hard fight. Never mind.... I have fought bigger battles in my time, so we'll see.

 

At the very least, I know that by the end of it all, they will be seriously pi**sed off with me....