Clamped & towed by private firm.

[Nozza]

Hi

 

My car was towed away by a private clamping firm within minutes of me leaving the car and I was forced to cough up £300 to get it back from a pound miles away from the site.

 

The situation is this:

The road I parked on appears to be a public road. It is sign-posted by the local council and has official-looking yellow line etc on it. The road widens by the width of a car – like a layby where a number of shops back on to it. The yellow line continues to hug the curb along this stretch. This "layby area" is delineated from the rest of the road by a 5” strip of concrete set into the ground but the surface of the road is the same either side of it.

 

I parked in this area behind a shop on what I believed to be a public highway. The shop has 4 or 5 parking bays (maybe 25 feet in total) in it’s “back yard” which is paved with bricks and enclosed by walls on 3 sides (not the side near the pavement, if that makes sense). The curb drops in the middle as it does in front of driveways you see commonly. I parked to one side of that dropped curb. So I was behind the shop, on the road, next to the curb. I don't think my carb was blocking the drop curb but it's possible a couple of inches of it were. On the ticket it states that the enforcement reasons were "No Permit" and "Causing Obstruction".

 

 

There were clamper’s signs on the wall of the back of the shop facing the road but this is set back 15-23 feet from the curb behind the parking bays, and on the 2 walls perpendicular to this. I saw them and assumed they meant that you might be clamped were you to park in the parking bays obviously on the shop’s property. However my car was gone when I got back. I called the police thinking it was stolen. Before they arrived I noticed a man from the shop next door and asked him if he’d seen my car being taken. He said it was taken by clampers. He said that that entire layby type area was actually private land and the area extending about 8 foot from each shop was owned by the corresponding shop. Hence those signs applied not just to the parking bay but that section of road too. He said that many people got clamped and many complained but never got anywhere since the deeds of the shop made it clear and their cases were thrown out, however I notice that he uses the same firm so his opinion might well be "biased"!

 

I assumed that I was parking on public property and that the signs did not apply to the area I parked in, otherwise I wouldn’t have parked there.

 

The sign said the “fixed penalty” is £265, that unattended vehicles would be towed at a cost of £170 + £95 clamp fee + £35 a day (or part day) storage charge. So I had to drive to Heathrow and pay a shaven headed geezer in an M3 convertible with a Rotweiller in tow £300 cash through the bars of a fence to get my car back.

 

On the receipt, which contains carbon-copied details from the screen ticket, it states two SIA numbers, one for the clamper and one for the releaser. I checked these numbers with the SIA. The clamper’s number does not check out. It is not a valid number. He supplied his name and signature. That name IS registered as a vehicle immobiliser but under a totally different SIA number. The SIA showed little interest in me telling them this stating “I don’t know much about the vehicle area, it’s all a bit murky”.

 

The releaser's SIA number identifies him as a notorious clamper (in the words of the press) but not to the name he gave to me or uses on the phone. So it's possible that he is not registered but using his bosses number or that he is the boss and uses multiple names.

 

Do I have a case re: the signage and private/public road uncertainty? The Vine v Waltham Forest [2000] EWCA Civ 106 (5 April 2000) judgement mentions " It was not intrinsically obvious, apart from signs, that the area where Mrs Vine parked was private property. It might have been part of the highway". That to me seem very similar to my case excpet that in my case the signs didn't help either.

 

 

Can I use the SIA number issue to my advantage?

Who do I contact now and what do I do?

 

Any help much appreciated.

[Rob S]

First thing I would do is to go back to the site and take photos of the whole area and also the signage to see how clear it is. The signage should make it clear what area is restricted. It would also be worthwhile contacting the land registry to find out the status of the land.

 

If the signage is defective in any way then you could write to the clamping firm and ask for a refund on what you paid them. If they refuse then the next step would be take them to county court. But you need to have a good case to win. You are saying that it is not clear what area is covered by the clamping firm and I would suggest this is the area to concentrate on. Draw up a sketch plan of the area, take measurements and mark the location of the signs. You need to be thorough.

 

The Vine v Waltham Forest case may be of help to you if it is clear that the signage did not make it clear that the land where you parked was private. I presume you have a full copy of this judgement to hand?

[Nozza]

Here are some links to photos:

 

http://picasaweb.google.com/NeilandEmma/Cl...922914605371554

 

My car was pretty much parked behind that BMW. As you can see cars are parked are on that extra road width delineated by the concrete strip. The property in question is between the white van and the BMW. You can see a white sign which is the clampers' sign.

 

http://picasaweb.google.com/NeilandEmma/Cl...923253907787986

Here you can see the road edge where it meets the property and where the curb drops, ostensibly to allow access to those brick-paved parking bays. I didn't park in those bays but on the road to the right of the crumbling drop curb.

 

http://picasaweb.google.com/NeilandEmma/Cl...923107878899906

I was behind where that BMW is now. You can see the one clampers sign on the wall to the top left of the blue shutter/door and just see another at the top of the picture on the right-hand wall perpendicular to the road.

 

Here is the whole album of photos: Clamping Scene">Scene album

 

Personally I don't see how any normal person could know that those signs apply to that stretch of road. Or am I being unreasonable?

[Rob S]

First thing that I noticed is the lack of a drop down kerb to facilitate easy access to the majority of the parking bays. Even the bay that has some semblance of a droped kerb is in such a state of disrepair that it would be straightforward to argue that it is not a dropped kerb.

 

Secondly the signs that are placed there do not make it clear that the parking bay is private property. It looks like a normal parking bay and not a private road The presence of the single yellow line would reinforce that belief. The bricks in the road are insignificant. There are major defects with the signage, in my opinion. The signs should be beyond the line of the buiildings and the pavement to make it clear that the layby is private, but where the signs atre placed it would be reasonable to assume they relate to the red bricked parking areas the other side of the pavement.

 

I would write to them and state that they had no right to remove your vehicle in the circumstances and that you want a refund of the entire amount. If they refuse, then send them a letter before action, giving them 14 days notice to pay up, otherwise you will take action against them in the county court and they will be liable for the additional costs.

[Rob S]

Do you have a close up of the sign by any chance? And I noticed 4 signs there, 3 of which were on the walls of the building which surround the red brick parking bays. Are there any other signs at the location?

 

I've also just noticed the length of the whole parking bay. Are they saying that is private too, because there seems to be a complete lack of signs indicating this.

[Nozza]

There is a bit of drop curb. What if a few inches of my car was obstructing that? I don't have the photos of my car parked there but they do so I can't say for sure.

 

I'm thinking that if someone parked their car in such a way that it partially obstructed the entrance to my home driveway, that I couldn't clap it, tow it miles away and demand £300 off them?

 

Would I be right in thinking that my main case is the fact that it is, or certainly appears to be a public highway and that, plus the positioning of the signs, removes any reasonable assumption that I willingly and knowingly consented to the terms of those signs?

 

What do you think about going after the shop keepers / land owners?

How do I find out if the land is indeed theirs? Would it really matter anyway?

[Nozza]

Here is a closeup of a sign. [url=http://picasaweb.google.com/NeilandEmma/ClampingScene/photo#5063224605993144674][/url]

 

http://picasaweb.google.com/NeilandEmma/ClampingScene/photo#5063224605993144674

 

I photographed all the signs I could see so there are not others that don't appear in my web album. As you can see, the only outward facing sign that appears to relate to the road rather than the parking bay is to the left of the property on the fence at a c. chest height. As it happens that sign was obscured by a white van at the time so I didn't see that. But it doesn't appear to cover the part of the road I was parked on anyway.

[Rob S]

The drop kerb is a red herring, the main issue is whether or not this is a private road, and the issue of the signs. I would pursue that angle. I am also of the opinion that the shop owners who hired this firm are also liable, as the clampers are acting as their agents, so they could be chased over this.

[Nozza]

Cheers

 

If it turns out to be privately owned, then what?

[Rob S]

I don't think it will matter as it is not properly signposted, that is the main issue here, in my opinion.

[Zamzara]

I would say that sign is wholly inadequate to convey the meaning that the road itself is private property.

[Howard0181]

The WebCHeck service is available from Monday to Saturday 7.00am to 12 Midnight UK Time

 

Name & Registered Office:

REGIONAL CLAMPING SERVICES LIMITED

9A HIGH STREET

WEST DRAYTON

MIDDLESEX

UB7 7QG

Company No. 05933790

 

Status: Active

Date of Incorporation: 13/09/2006

 

Country of Origin: United Kingdom

Company Type: Private Limited Company

Nature of Business (SIC(03)):

None Supplied

Accounting Reference Date: 30/09

Last Accounts Made Up To: (NO ACCOUNTS FILED)

Next Accounts Due: 13/07/2008

Last Return Made Up To:

Next Return Due: 11/10/2007

[StormWarrior]

I would be very careful when you take any more photos, or you may trip on that seriously dangerous paving, and twist your ankle.

Then you'd have to take someone to court for damages incurred by thier lack of maintainance. Could get interesting !!

[Tau]

The signs do look as though they refer to parking at the back of the shops and not the road.

 

Good luck.

[Howard0181]

If you are 100% certain the land is owned or leased by the shopkeeper then you can sue the shopkeeper. You will be able to get the agreement between the shopkeeper and the "clamping thug" via court proceedings.