JBW charges

[Guest bong]

Hi all, first time in the bailiffs forum, know nothing yet about my rights as far as bailiffs go, will be reading through the stickies/threads tomorrow but wanted to log details of what has happened so far.

 

I am separated from my husband but we share use of the car which is in his sole name. It is parked in my drive during the week and he takes it at weekends. He works in Germany Mon - Fri.

 

Last week I had a visit at 7am from a JBW Bailiff. He asked if Mr bong was in. I said "no he doesn't live here and is abroad anyway". He said "well just to let you know I've immobilised the car and it will be collected later today if payment is not made by 10.30am." I asked what the debt was and he said it was a parking fine, and payment due today was £560 because he had already had to clamp the car. I asked why he hadn't knocked and told me before incurring the cost and he said it was "policy". He thrust into my hand a Final Notice of something or other. Sorry I've since passed on the paperwork to ex so can't refer to it right now, but it did seem strange to be receiving a final notice if it wasn't indeed giving any "notice".

 

I ended up paying £582 to get the car unclamped, which included a surcharge for paying by credit card. The original fine with court costs was £120. From memory there was something like a £45 bailiffs costs and then the rest was attendance (levy?) costs and VAT.

 

Dear ex has since informed me that there are another 2 or 3 of these in the pipe line! Heaven knows when he'll decide to pay them!

 

I'm now wondering if these charges are lawful, seems like they might not be from the look of some of the titles of threads in this forum.

 

Trouble is, if they call again in the next few days (I've now taken to parking the car with the driver's wheel parked so close to the wall LOL) I would appreciate advice on how to handle it if indeed they are not entitled to make these charges.

[Guest Herbie]

As JBW are the company featured on the television programme: "Beat the Bailiff", I am surprised that such a high profile company would be charging these fees which on the face of it cannot be correct.

 

This company were also the subject of a debate in the House of Commons just 2 weeks ago, for a more or less identical situation.

 

You have a legal right to request a full and detailed breakdown of the fees and charges that have been made on this account. This is called a Subject Access Request and legally the company MUST provide it to you.

 

This is a key document, which will enable you to make a formal complaint to the court about the bailiff. There is no fee to pay for this.

 

A number of bailiff companies try to look at any way to avoid providing a response to a SAR, so you must ensure that the wording on your letter is correct. Please pm and we will provide one for you.

 

Finally, could you please find out the name of the bailiff who attended as by law, he must be a Certifcated Bailiff. Do NOT put the name on here, please pm instead.

 

It's best to park the car out of sight for the time being.

[The Watcher]

 

Finally, could you please find out the name of the bailiff who attended as by law, he must be a Certifcated Bailiff.

 

Herbie

 

Have you ever come across a case where a "false" bailiffs name was given?

 

That is, the bailiff company will know that people are going to ask for this information (so people can check whether he is certificated) so when the name of the bailiff is asked for they simply supply the name of a bailiff that IS certificated - even though he was not the bailiff that actually called?

[Guest Herbie]

Sadly, yes. We have had a number of cases of this. This is why we always try to advise someone to obtain the name of a bailiff before wrtiting to the company....if possible.

 

The governement have confirmed that there are only 1,400 Certificated Bailiffs. So many are working without any legal authority whatsover.

 

There are a whole raft of offences that are being committed by this, not least: gaining a pecuniray advantage by deception, trespass, theft....etc etc.

 

For this reason, IT IS VITAL, that anyone who has a visit from the bailiff, must ask to see the bailiff's Certificate. You will be shown and ID card. If he cannot produce his certifcate, tell him that you will be calling the police and the local authority.

 

He has as much right to come into your house as a burgular.

 

For anyone reading this. Please note. You have every right to see the Bailiff Certificate, and although it resembles an ID card, the difference is that it will be PERSONALLY signed the a Judge and will have a court stamp embossed on the photo.

 

In addition, the Certifcate lasts for only 2 years.

[Robdblynd]

Just a quick query if you don't mind?

 

Does the certification document apply to ALL courts or only to High Court appointed bailiffs? So do bailiffs acting for County Court and Magisrtates Courts have to have the same ID card?

 

Thank you.

[Guest bong]

Right, I have managed to get all the paperwork back.

 

What the bailiff actually handed me was worded like this -

 

 

To - Mr bong Date 11.4.07

Ref xxx Client L B of Barnet

 

Total Amount now due £564.84

 

FINAL WARNING BEFORE REMOVAL

 

DESPITE PREVIOUS LETTERS, NOTICES AND ATTENDANCES YOU HAVE FAILED TO PAY THE ABOVE SUM OUTSTANDING

 

IF THE TOTAL AMOUNT IS NOT PAID IMMEDIATELY

BAILIFFS

WILL ATTEND YOUR ADDRESS TO REMOVE YOUR GOODS

 

TO AVOID FURTHER ENFORCEMENT ACTION YOU ARE ADVISED TO CONTACT THE BAILIFF IMMEDIATELY ON THE NUMBER BELOW

 

Bailiff ...(name) Tel xxx

 

 

Please note there will be a 3% surcharge when paying by visa/mastercard.

 

 

 

and this

 

Notice of Seizure of Goods & Inventory

The Enforcement of Road Traffic Debts (Certificated Bailiffs) Regulations 1993 & Local Authorities Acts 1990 - 2003 & Transport for London Acts

 

JBW Enforcement Ltd

P O Box 50218, London EC2A 3WR

 

Date 11/4/07

To Mr bong

Of (address)

 

I xxx Certificated Bailiff of the above address am acting on a certificate granted to me by the Northampton County Court and under a warrant issued with the authority of the Parking Enforcement centre at Northampton.

 

I have today seized and distrained the goods listed in the following inventory for the sum of £564.84 This amount represents Parking Penalty charges, court fees and Bailiff Costs incurred in attending.

 

Vehicle Registration No xxx Penalty Charge No. xxxx

 

Inventory

 

(car details)

 

Amount owing

 

parking penalty charges / inc court fee £125

bailiffs costs £84.34

Attendance to remove / removal costs £290

VAT on bailiffs costs £65.50

Total amount due today £564.84

 

 

 

Table of fees, charges and expenses

 

1. for preparing and sending a letter advising the debtor that a warrant is with the bailiff and requesting the total sum due £11.20

 

2. for levying distress -

i. where the sum demanded and due does not exceed £100 £28.00

ii. where the sum demanded and due exceeds £100 28% on first £200, 5.5% on any additional sum over £200

 

 

3. for attending to levy distress but where the levy is not made, the reasonable costs and charges for attending to the levy. the costs and charges are not to exceed the fees and charges which would have been due under para 2 above if the distress had been levied. the costs and charges are subject to taxation under rule 11.

 

4. for taking possession... blah blah (n/a)

 

signed & dated 11/4/07

 

 

 

Total paid £564.84 + 3% surcharge £16.94 = £581.78

 

 

now I have tried but I just cannot reconcile the figures with their table of fees and charges. where does the £84.34 come from? they haven't sent any previous letters but even if they had sent 7 of them, at £11.20 a time that only makes £78. and the £290 charge? using their method the debt owed would have needed to have been £4,454 to arrive at a charge of £290!!!

 

Are they mad??? or hoping no-one will read the small print? or have I misread their table??

 

thanks for your advice Herbie.

 

I have a few more questions -

 

1. I thought you had to send a £10 cheque with an S.A.R ?

2. would it be me that requests the S.A.R. or the debtor himself

 

I will PM you for the letter / with the name of the bailiff. thanks again.

[Guest Herbie]

I will look at these figures later today and I will send over an SAR . The £10 is NOT necessary. BUT.....the bailiff company have 40 days in which to respond to your SAR (that's 6 weeks) and there are a number of less reputable companies who we are aware of that wait right up until the 40th day to respond by saying that they can't comply with the SAR due to the fat that the £10 fee is missing. This is of course a delaying tactic and you would then need to write to them again....and wait another 6 weeks.

 

 

Therefore our advice is to include the £10 fee........AND a self addressed (stamped) envelope with a request that they confirm safe receipt of your SAR and fee.

 

Once you have received a response to your SAR you will probably want to issue a letter before action for a refund of your fees. Include in this figure, a refund also of your £10.

 

 

BARNET PARKING TICKET.

 

It would apear that this ticket is from Barnet. Due to the legal ruling last year concerning Barnet parking tickets ,yours could possibly be one of the illegal tickets.

 

Do you have the date of the ticket?

[Guest Herbie]

Response to Robdblynd

 

There is nothing in the courts acts that require a bailiff enforcing debts on behalf of the Magistrates Courts to be Certificated. However, when HMCS awarded contracts to Drakes Group, Phillips, and Swift in April 2006, they provided in those contracts that all bailiff MUST be Certificated.

 

Therefore it is a Contractual right.

[Bailiffchaser]

Typical that is why i am suing them in the small claims court for non compliance with the sar and got a default judgement for £4000 against them.

[Guest bong]

I will look at these figures later today and I will send over an SAR . The £10 is NOT necessary. BUT.....the bailiff company have 40 days in which to respond to your SAR (that's 6 weeks) and there are a number of less reputable companies who we are aware of that wait right up until the 40th day to respond by saying that they can't comply with the SAR due to the fat that the £10 fee is missing. This is of course a delaying tactic and you would then need to write to them again....and wait another 6 weeks.

 

 

Therefore our advice is to include the £10 fee........AND a self addressed (stamped) envelope with a request that they confirm safe receipt of your SAR and fee.

 

Once you have received a response to your SAR you will probably want to issue a letter before action for a refund of your fees. Include in this figure, a refund also of your £10.

 

 

BARNET PARKING TICKET.

 

It would apear that this ticket is from Barnet. Due to the legal ruling last year concerning Barnet parking tickets ,yours could possibly be one of the illegal tickets.

 

Do you have the date of the ticket?

 

Hi herbie, the ticket was issued on 30/9/2006.

 

just out of interest he had another ticket on 29/7/2006 - which I have just paid, (strange how this one was earlier but they hadn't yet instructed bailiffs:confused: ), would either of these 2 tickets be illegal?

 

Did you receive my PM with the bailiff's name by the way? hoping you can PM me the letter I need to send to get these charges back, hopefully.

 

many thanks

[Guest Herbie]

Bong, I have pm's you for the SAR, Details of the Barnet ticket are as follows:

 

 

 

BARNET PARKING TICKETS

 

On 2nd August last year Mr Justice Jackson delivered his Judgment in a Landmark legal case in the High Court when he ruled that parking tickets were INVALID if they did not have two dates on them: one the date of the contravention and the other a date of issue.

 

If you have been issued with a parking ticket and still have the original PCN (this is the ticket that would have been attached to your windscreen) you need to check the following:

 

• At the top of the ticket there has to be the words “Date of Issue”. Having just the date or time and date off offence is not acceptable.

 

• The ticket must not refer to an “offence”. It must instead say “Contravention”

 

• Both these dates must appear in the body of the PCN; it is not sufficient for the date of issue to appear on the tear-off payment slip.

 

Either one of these points will render the Parking Charge Notice as “unenforceable” accordingly to Section 66(3) of the Road Traffic Act 1991

[Guest bong]

thanks herbie, I haven't got the oldest ticket to refer to but the one in question looks to be ok. It doesn't say date of issue though, it says date of notice.

 

have also replied to your PM.

[PizzaMaker]

Right, I have managed to get all the paperwork back.

 

What the bailiff actually handed me was worded like this -

 

 

To - Mr bong Date 11.4.07

Ref xxx Client L B of Barnet

 

Total Amount now due £564.84

 

FINAL WARNING BEFORE REMOVAL

 

DESPITE PREVIOUS LETTERS, NOTICES AND ATTENDANCES YOU HAVE FAILED TO PAY THE ABOVE SUM OUTSTANDING

 

IF THE TOTAL AMOUNT IS NOT PAID IMMEDIATELY

BAILIFFS

WILL ATTEND YOUR ADDRESS TO REMOVE YOUR GOODS

 

TO AVOID FURTHER ENFORCEMENT ACTION YOU ARE ADVISED TO CONTACT THE BAILIFF IMMEDIATELY ON THE NUMBER BELOW

 

Bailiff ...(name) Tel xxx

 

 

Please note there will be a 3% surcharge when paying by visa/mastercard.

 

 

 

and this

 

Notice of Seizure of Goods & Inventory

The Enforcement of Road Traffic Debts (Certificated Bailiffs) Regulations 1993 & Local Authorities Acts 1990 - 2003 & Transport for London Acts

 

JBW Enforcement Ltd

P O Box 50218, London EC2A 3WR

 

Date 11/4/07

To Mr bong

Of (address)

 

I xxx Certificated Bailiff of the above address am acting on a certificate granted to me by the Northampton County Court and under a warrant issued with the authority of the Parking Enforcement centre at Northampton.

 

I have today seized and distrained the goods listed in the following inventory for the sum of £564.84 This amount represents Parking Penalty charges, court fees and Bailiff Costs incurred in attending.

 

Vehicle Registration No xxx Penalty Charge No. xxxx

 

Inventory

 

(car details)

 

Amount owing

 

parking penalty charges / inc court fee £125

bailiffs costs £84.34

Attendance to remove / removal costs £290

VAT on bailiffs costs £65.50

Total amount due today £564.84

 

 

 

Table of fees, charges and expenses

 

1. for preparing and sending a letter advising the debtor that a warrant is with the bailiff and requesting the total sum due £11.20

 

2. for levying distress -

i. where the sum demanded and due does not exceed £100 £28.00

ii. where the sum demanded and due exceeds £100 28% on first £200, 5.5% on any additional sum over £200

 

 

3. for attending to levy distress but where the levy is not made, the reasonable costs and charges for attending to the levy. the costs and charges are not to exceed the fees and charges which would have been due under para 2 above if the distress had been levied. the costs and charges are subject to taxation under rule 11.

 

4. for taking possession... blah blah (n/a)

 

signed & dated 11/4/07

 

 

 

Total paid £564.84 + 3% surcharge £16.94 = £581.78

 

 

now I have tried but I just cannot reconcile the figures with their table of fees and charges. where does the £84.34 come from? they haven't sent any previous letters but even if they had sent 7 of them, at £11.20 a time that only makes £78. and the £290 charge? using their method the debt owed would have needed to have been £4,454 to arrive at a charge of £290!!!

 

Are they mad??? or hoping no-one will read the small print? or have I misread their table??

 

thanks for your advice Herbie.

 

I have a few more questions -

 

1. I thought you had to send a £10 cheque with an S.A.R ?

2. would it be me that requests the S.A.R. or the debtor himself

 

I will PM you for the letter / with the name of the bailiff. thanks again.

 

Looks like you have been charged for 2 visits and £120 attendance to remove, £120 van fee and £50 for the clamp.

[Guest bong]

are you saying those are the standard and legal fees then?

 

can't see how they visited twice anyway, surely they'd have clamped the car first time or left a note?

[Guest bong]

and how comes those fees aren't quoted in the table?

[PizzaMaker]

Maybe they are stating they have visited twice but have not.

 

Did you receive any notification prior to your car being clamped?

[bungy]

A couple of points:-

 

The paperwork shows the bailiff is certificated at Northampton County Court (if you have reproduced it accurately). Northampton is the Traffic Enforcement Centre for the whole country and as far as I am aware do not issue bailiff certificates. Only some County Courts do this. This makes me think he is not certificated.

 

You have been issued with a "Notice of Seizure" but you have been charged for "Removing/Attending to Remove". Charges for removing etc. should be detailed on a "Notice of Expenses for Removing" etc. and if this has not been issued the paperwork is wrong. This gives you grounds to complain to the court where the bailiff is certificated (if he is) and if not - then the whole thing is illegal & you should be able to get a full refund

[Guest Herbie]

Sorry Bungy,

 

The Traffic Enforcement Centre (TEC) is ATTACHED to Northampton County Court.

 

Northampton County Court do indeed issue Bailiff Certificates.

 

I have not had time to look into the fees that you have been charged but should be able to do this later for you( first glance tell me that there would appeat to be problems) You should have received by e-mail last night.

 

I will reply later.

[bungy]

I stand corrected. However, I think my points regarding incorrect paperwork are still valid.

[Guest SWALEFOYER]

The way i currently see it jbw with its high profile should not be pushing their luck. They have over and over abused the power that they have got. Despite even being caught out by austin mtchell(mp)( they clamped his daughters car and charged £750 ) odd quid to release it and they also got a free whipping in parliament but they will still not pack it in. Do not know who or what will stop them. The way that i see it is Example I can thump anybody and break their bone. I have done what i did but for the bloke who had his broken bone it will take months before i get my comuppance. The companies will charge you what they want and its is then your time wasted going around trying to recover and also most of the time when these cases get to court the companies will lie their backsides off to win.

[Guest bong]

Thanks all.

 

Herbie I haven't received an email - not pushing but just thought I'd let you know in case you sent it somewhere else.

 

Was reading on eric's thread that the bailiff has to be in possession of a valid SIA licence to clamp cars on private ground. That would apply to me as well wouldn't it? - as the car was in my drive? This bailiff doesn't appear to have an SIA licence according to the SIA website.

 

I have now received more paperwork from my ex. As far as I know there isn't anything else.

 

The parking enforcement centre at Northampton County Court issued the order for recovery of the unpaid penalty charge £125 on 23/1/07.

 

Then came a NOTICE OF BAILIFF INSTRUCTION from JBW (on red paper) dated 13/3/07. This said amount due now £138.16. (TAKE NOTICE due to non payment of the above penalty charge notice the matter of collection by distraint has been placed in my hands. I must inform you that if the full amount, including additional costs, are not paid into my office at the above address WITHIN 10 DAYS OF THE ABOVE DATE, I will have no alternative but to instruct my BAILIFFS to attend your premises for the purpose of taking inventory and removing your goods and chattels to public auction, where they will be sold to meet your fine and additional costs.)

 

So this appears to be fine up to here - £125 fine + £11.20 letter cost + £1.96 VAT = £138.16.

 

Next, as far as I know, the visit to my house on 11/4/07 and the clamping. There was no NOTICE OF EXPENSES FOR REMOVING as per bungy's post.

 

It seems there are problems with this guy's certificate but there could have been changes in April that I'm unaware of so I'm now getting in touch with the court.

[Guest Herbie]

Sorry, Bong I have been rushing about and will send the e-mail today.

 

There are of course no allegations being made that this particular bailiff is not Certifcated, but another point that should be made is that our office have come across MANY cases where the bailiff was Certifcated BUT his Cert was obtained whilst working for a different company. The Statutory Regulations, in this case number: 2360 of 1999 provide the following:

 

“Change of bailiff’s name, address, etc

7A.—(1) In this rule “relevant details” means a bailiff’s name, address or other written

information appearing on the certificate.

(2) If there is any change in the relevant details, the bailiff shall without delay give

written notice of the change to the issuing county court and produce his certificate (“the

old certificate”) to the court officer of the issuing county court.

(3) When a bailiff gives notice and produces the old certificate in accordance with

paragraph (2) above, the Judge of the issuing county court shall issue to the bailiff a

replacement certificate reflecting the change in the relevant details but in all other respects

(including, without limitation, the date of expiry of the certificate) the same as the old

certificate.

(4) When a replacement certificate is issued in accordance with paragraph (3) above,

the court officer shall retain and cancel the old certificate.

(5) No fee shall be payable for the issue of a replacement certificate in accordance with

this rule.”.

[Guest SWALEFOYER]

I personally would not be shocked as they have lots of uncertificated bailiffs doing people over. Did you read about austin mitchell the mp ? His daughters car got clamped by a uncertificated bailiff by the name of mr **edited** who was up until last year working for ccs enforcement services. Wandering why he left them ? Make your own mind up.

[Guest Herbie]

CORRECTION.

 

Sorry Swalefoyer.

 

You most certainly should NOT publish bailiff names on the forum , there have been many mistakes like this in the past and names should be reserved for pm messages only.

 

In addition, there is the matter of libel which can be serious. As it so happens, this bailiff IS Certificated as working for CCS . Before the moderators take this thread away, could you please edit your message, in particular that this subject is having many visitors.

 

Thank you.

[Guest SWALEFOYER]

Sorry to all for publishing the name of the bailiff concerned. However this is a prime example of how rogue bailiffs are jumping between diffrent companies without notifying the court that issued their certificate although the companies are aware of this they turn a blind eye as they know no one is going to challenge them.