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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
    • Not sure what to make of that or what it means for me, I was just about to head to my kip and it's a bit too late for legalise. When is the "expenditure occured"?  When they start spending money to write to me?  Or is this a bad thing (as "harsh" would imply)? When all is said and done, I do not have two beans to rub together, we rent our home and EVERYTHING of value has been purchased by and is in my wife's name and we are not financially linked in any way.  So at least if I can't escape my fate I can at least know that they will get sweet FA from me anyway   edit:  ah.. Sophia Harrison: Time bar decision tough on claimants WWW.SCOTTISHLEGAL.COM Time bar is a very complex area of law in Scotland relating to the period in which a claim for breach of duty can be pursued. The Scottish government...   This explains it like I am 5.  So, a good thing then because creditors clearly know they have suffered a loss the minute I stop paying them, this is why it is "harsh" (for them, not me)? Am I understanding this correctly?  
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Guidelines - Requests For An Original Agreement Under The Consumer Credit Act 1974


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I'm at the point with my own CCA struggle where I'm trying TS to put a bit of pressure on the DCA. I just had a call back and I was trying to explain the situation but the woman I spoke to has said I should speak to the money advice people, who I'm not sure are part of TS.

 

How should I be phrasing this to TS to make the fact more on the failings of the DCA, rather than making it appear like I'm trying to avoid the debt which I'm not!

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I'm at the point with my own CCA struggle where I'm trying TS to put a bit of pressure on the DCA. I just had a call back and I was trying to explain the situation but the woman I spoke to has said I should speak to the money advice people, who I'm not sure are part of TS.

 

How should I be phrasing this to TS to make the fact more on the failings of the DCA, rather than making it appear like I'm trying to avoid the debt which I'm not!

 

Depending on TS's approach, it won't matter how you appear to them - if they think you are trying to avoid the debt (which seems to be the collective consciousness with other TS areas we've seen) you'll struggle to get any action out of them. If they don't think like that, you might be surprised at the action they take and how quick it is. This is the lottery we're all facing due to this issue, sadly.

 

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Depending on TS's approach, it won't matter how you appear to them - if they think you are trying to avoid the debt (which seems to be the collective consciousness with other TS areas we've seen) you'll struggle to get any action out of them. If they don't think like that, you might be surprised at the action they take and how quick it is. This is the lottery we're all facing due to this issue, sadly.

 

The point I tried to make, which perhaps wasn't easy to make over the phone was trying to focus on the DCA's legal right to collect said debt, rather than the debt existing.

 

The person I spoke to advised me to ring another person who was the money specialist, but is quite busy. I'll try and get down the office and lay out exactly what the DCA have done wrong and back this up with the CCA 1974 rather than focusing on the debt.

 

I kinda got the impression that because they didn't really know what I was trying to explain they had made their minds up straight away.

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I've just taken some time to compose an email to the officer to focus on exactly what aspects I want TS to investigate, here's the email with the essentials xxxx'd out:

 

Dear XXXX,

I have made a complaint through Consumer Direct regarding the practises of a Debt Collection Agency, XXXX that I am dealing with and I have been advised to speak with you regarding the matter.

Firstly, I'm not trying to avoid paying the debt, but I am trying to ascertain that XXXX have the legal right to collect payment for this and I have grave concerns over the way in which XXXX operate.

On the XXXX I made a request under section 78(1) of the consumer credit act 1974 for a copy of the agreement I entered into originally with XXXX. This was sent recorded delivery and confirmed as delivered on the XXXX. On the XXXX XXXX wrote to me to acknowledge my request and acceptance of my £1 postal order.

They entered into default of my request on XXXX and as per the CCA 1974, I withheld payment until such a time that XXXX can prove to me they are legally entitled to demand payment. The act states I am not obliged to make during this time.

After 30 calendar days they commit an offence as laid out in the CCA 1974, this date was XXXX. I have yet to receive my agreement as requested.

I wrote to XXXX again after receiving a letter demanding payment, which once again is a breach of the CCA 1974 when the right to collect the debt is in dispute. On XXXX I sent more letters. One a request for all communication to be in writing, as I no longer wished to receive telephone calls. This has partially been respected, although I consider them to be in breach of Communications Act (2003).

In addition to this was a complaint to be dealt with under their complaints procedures, which has been ignored.

On XXXX, I once received a sternly worded letter advising me that I need to contact XXXX to arrange payment or the account would be passed to XXXX for further collection and possible legal action. XXXX are another trading name of XXXX, and this is in clear breach of the OFT guidelines for debt collection.

 

I have copies of all correspondence and confirmation of delivery of my letters and I would very much like to discuss the practises of XXXX:

1) Failure to act on my legal request under the CCA 1974

2) Breach of the OFT Guidelines for Debt Collection

3) Breach of the Communications Act 2003.

Please could you contact me to arrange an appointment to further discuss this and for me to give you copies of all correspondence to act upon.

 

I thought that was as clear and concise as I could make it to drive the points that I feel TS should be looking into.

 

Thoughts?

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A DCA have sent me three copies of an APPLICATION FORM . I pointed out that no where on this form does it say , The APPLICANT AGREES to the OC being able to sell the account on to A THIRD PARTY . So if this DCA are calling this APPLICATION FORM an AGREEMENT . The terms of this so called AGREEMENT have been broken . Therefore on that point alone could not be deemed enforceable . Would the legal eagles on here agree ?????

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Assuming there are penalty charges applied to the debt & If the DCA continues to insist the application IS valid & they attempt to enforce the debt advise them that you will be counter claiming that the debt is unenforceable & seeking an order to that effect or in the alternative, as they are the owners of the debt you will be claiming all unlawful penalty charges from them

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A DCA have sent me three copies of an APPLICATION FORM . I pointed out that no where on this form does it say , The APPLICANT AGREES to the OC being able to sell the account on to A THIRD PARTY . So if this DCA are calling this APPLICATION FORM an AGREEMENT . The terms of this so called AGREEMENT have been broken . Therefore on that point alone could not be deemed enforceable . Would the legal eagles on here agree ?????

 

The issue of assignment doesn't receive the attention it deserves from these companies.

 

Is there a thread on this issue, as the answer to this depends on the type of assignment that has taken place and that is far too complicated to answer in response to this post?

 

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HI , My point is IF this form is accepted as an agreement then the terms in that form have been broken .

 

I can't see how. Assignment is a contractrual relationship between the debt seller and the debt buyer - it has nothing to do with the agreement itself, especially if the assignment is equitable rather than legal, as the obligations may/or may not pass from the OC to the DCA, again depending on the type of assignment.

 

You are right that you should have received a NOA when it took place, but that is a question of fact rather than law surrounding the agreement terms, IMHO.

 

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I think unenforceable, as the rate of interest is missing. The APR is shown, but that includes fees, compound interest, etc, so isn't a specific rate of interest applied to the account. As rate of interest is a prescribed term, which is missing, the agreement is unenforceable, IMHO.

 

 

Thank you for this car2403 - can you tell me which is the best way to approach this as we have a court hearing - they got a forewith judgement against us (trying to make an unsecured loan a secured loan) - i need to sound as if i know what i am talking about when we go to court.

 

I will argue the above point re unsecured v's secured

 

i wish to argue your point also but need to fully understand what i am saying - could you point me in direction of a letter i could send either the creditor or judge pleaseeeeeeeeee - btw what does IMHO stand for?????

Northern Rock - loan - £6000

Beneficial credit card - £12+

GM Card - £13+

will have to look up the others have about 21 debtors totalling about £175,000

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Hello soo43

I can't help you very much but I think IMHO means in my humble opinion.

 

I had this happen to me for a £10000 credit card debt. I attended the hearing to offer my payment by installments and not forthwith. The judge wanted to know if any of my other debts were secured on the property and how I was helping myself out of the situation.

I had a list of all my debts and proof of my regular lowered payments and said that non of my other creditors had charges.

The judge ruled that installments could be paid and the creditor was not allowed to appeal again.

Donot let them know if you have equity or not.

 

IMHO if you are not a law person but a person trying to look out for himself then I think the judge takes this into consideration. You cannot know all the law and may not be able to afford a lawyer. I have had to go to court several times and although the judge will not fight your case he will not let the claimant take the p..ss.

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I can't see how. Assignment is a contractrual relationship between the debt seller and the debt buyer - it has nothing to do with the agreement itself, especially if the assignment is equitable rather than legal, as the obligations may/or may not pass from the OC to the DCA, again depending on the type of assignment.

 

You are right that you should have received a NOA when it took place, but that is a question of fact rather than law surrounding the agreement terms, IMHO.

Hi Chris

 

There was an interesting thread on assignment here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/123771-validity-debt-assignment-re.html although I must confess I do not fully understand it all. ;)

 

Rob

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Hello again,

 

Can I come back to your post to make sure I understand all the details ?Tried to start my own thread, but can't get my head around that yet despite reading the dummies guide as you suggested.

 

When I requested the copy of the original credit card application form ( which I assumed would incorporate the T & C's - they usually do ) I was really wanting to see if the bank - Vanquis in this case - had signed the form.

As I understand it, the application/agreement must be signed not only by the applicant but also by, or on behalf of, the bank ( section 61 (1) of the CA 1974 refers I believe).

If the bank had NOT signed the original form as has been the case with 2 other banks I'm dealing with, this means the agreement is unenforceable without the agreement of the court. Am I correct so far ?

 

There seem to be two main points to your comments, First - that the T & C's MAY NOT be omitted from the agreement.

 

What I received was a blank application form ( single page front and back ) and the T & C's which were on seperate photocopied sheets ( single sided ) , BUT it's not really possible to tell whether, on the originals, the T & C's were sent as a seperate document entirely or were actually continuation pages of a single application document. I suspect that they were NOT part of a single application form, but I cannot be 100 % sure about arguing the toss on this issue.

(I suppose I could always write back on the assumption that the T & C 's were separate and just see how they react )

 

The second point of your reply concerned the fact that the copy must be a 'True copy' of the original.

 

However, it would appear from point 2 of your reply that the signature may, under certain circumstances, be omitted from a copy provided in reply to a request under section 77-79 of the CCA

 

Leaving aside the question of whether or not the T & C's were sent as a seperate document, can the document I received in answer to my request i.e. a blank application form - be deemed a 'true' copy if it shows neither my signature, nor a signature by on on behalf of the bank ?

 

Equally can it be deemed a 'true copy ' if there is no way of telling whether or not the T & C's were ,or were not, presentated on a seperate document to the application form.

 

As far as I can see, what the bank has sent me proves nothing, certainly not the existence of a valid agreement. It's tantamount to them saying

' Believe us, we have an agreement but we're not going to show it to you '

 

Does the reply letter you suggested I send the bank, still hold true in light of the above ?

 

If the reply I have received is NOT a true copy, am I correct in thinking that this puts Vanquis in breach of their obligation to provide true copy within the 12 days allowed and equally that if they don't come up with a true copy within a further 21 days thay have commited an offence ?

 

Sorry if this seems that I am splitting hairs, but I'll feel better if I understand exactly where I stand.

 

Thanks and more thanks

 

Valhalla

 

I think we need to get a Mod/Site Admin to create a thread for you, Valhalla, then I can answer this there, as we're a little off topic here.

 

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A DCA have sent me three copies of an APPLICATION FORM . I pointed out that no where on this form does it say , The APPLICANT AGREES to the OC being able to sell the account on to A THIRD PARTY . So if this DCA are calling this APPLICATION FORM an AGREEMENT . The terms of this so called AGREEMENT have been broken . Therefore on that point alone could not be deemed enforceable . Would the legal eagles on here agree ?????

When I asked for copy of a notice of assignment , all I recieved was a simple letter from the OC , addressed to me but sent to the DCA , saying the account had been sold and I should contact them .

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When I asked for copy of a notice of assignment , all I recieved was a simple letter from the OC , addressed to me but sent to the DCA , saying the account had been sold and I should contact them .

 

It depends what type of assignment has taken place, so it's worth asking the question.

 

Ref this post from Moonhawk in my RBS thread;

 

Hi,

 

I need to check triton out before I can advise. I'll take a look tomorrow as Companies House is offline on Sundays.

 

Just to help a little in terms of understanding legalities, the debt/account can be assigned in a couple of ways, which have different effects. As you will understand, they will be very vague in admitting what the type of assignment it is, as it will corner them in terms of what they can do and what is expected of them.

 

First type of assignment is "Absolute". This means that the account is sold in it's entirety to a third party. The third party (in your case Triton) would then become the new creditor and also hold all duties as well as liabilities. So the CCA will go to them and any action for penalty charges etc will be brought against them. They can also, as the creditor, take you to court for non-payment. From the cases I have seen on this and other consumer sites, I have found this to be a very rare type of assignment.

 

The more common type of assignment is that the "debt" is sold and not the account. (The wording in your assignment letter suggests this). This means that the assignee holds the rights to collect upon the debt, but the original creditor holds the duties and liabilities. This means that you send the CCA to the OC and sue the OC for penalty charges etc. It also means that the assignee becomes an "equitable owner" (legal for joint owner) and they can not sue for non-payment by themselves. They might try, but if you know this you can counter it in your defense. The OC must be included in any legal action.

 

With either type of assignment, the assignee can not act if a request is made under section 77/78 of the CCA, until it has been complied with. They will argue otherwise, but either they are responsible for duties as the "creditor" (in an absolute assignment) or they hold the title of "agent" under the CCA. No-one else apart from the creditor or their agent can collect on a debt under the CCA. AK have stopped all correspondence and are sulking when I mentioned this in response to them saying they are not the creditor or an agent.

 

I will take a look into Triton and see what else I can advise. The assignment letter says "Ltd". Sometimes these companies are dormant, which means they should not be trading but do. I'll check tomorrow and get back to you. I hope the above helps.

 

Best Wishes

MoonHawk

 

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We need to look at a court case where a claim has been thrown out on the grounds of non production of a copy of a true signed agreement . Everyone seems to be putting their own opinions or their reading of the CCA. It seems a never ending question !

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I can't see how. Assignment is a contractrual relationship between the debt seller and the debt buyer - it has nothing to do with the agreement itself, especially if the assignment is equitable rather than legal, as the obligations may/or may not pass from the OC to the DCA, again depending on the type of assignment.

 

You are right that you should have received a NOA when it took place, but that is a question of fact rather than law surrounding the agreement terms, IMHO.

 

Hello again , I,ve just read a C C AGREEMENT that my partner has for a sofa . It states clearly, It is a C C AGREEMENT , all the prescribed terms are there clearly , and on the back it has terms and conditions. One of these conditions state, WE MAY ASSIGN OR TRANSFER OUR RIGHTS UNDER THE AGREEMENT . Which is very clear and understandable . My point is as the APPLICATION FORM i signed does not contain any statement on ASSIGNMENT , if this DCA are attempting to class this form as an AGREEMENT . The terms of this SO CALLED AGREEMENT have been broken !

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We need to look at a court case where a claim has been thrown out on the grounds of non production of a copy of a true signed agreement . Everyone seems to be putting their own opinions or their reading of the CCA. It seems a never ending question !

 

That's because it's based on opinion and experience - the only person in the World that can say if an agreement is enforceable or not is a Judge, where you'll find you get different opinions also.

 

The threads/opinions posted just reflect the real World - much better been prepared for the worst, than expecting the best and not getting it, IMHO.

 

Hello again , I,ve just read a C C AGREEMENT that my partner has for a sofa . It states clearly, It is a C C AGREEMENT , all the prescribed terms are there clearly , and on the back it has terms and conditions. One of these conditions state, WE MAY ASSIGN OR TRANSFER OUR RIGHTS UNDER THE AGREEMENT . Which is very clear and understandable . My point is as the APPLICATION FORM i signed does not contain any statement on ASSIGNMENT , if this DCA are attempting to class this form as an AGREEMENT . The terms of this SO CALLED AGREEMENT have been broken !

 

Assignment is a contractural relationship between the assignee and the assignor - to my knowledge, this doesn't require a specific term in the agreement unless the assignment is to be absolute.

 

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what if the original agreement on an existing credit card was signed with a provider who has subsequently sold on the credit card business to someone else? Am I still entitled to ask for a copy of the original agreement? I would like to check the small print for something and also to see how much the new provider has changed the terms and conditions of the card since buying the business. This relates to MBNA issues

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It doesn't matter if the company has changed hands. The original agreement is the contract you signed & entered into. Nor can they change the T's & C's without your express consent

 

If the buyer didn't insist on receiving copies of the original documents from the seller then that's their problem. In fact the shareholders could sue the directors & their advisors for failing to exercise due diligence.

 

This certainly would be the case if because of their oversight much of the book debt became unrecoverable

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thanks JonCris. will take this up with MBNA. The forum has proved yet again how useful it is with helpful advice. It certainly provides lots of food for thought on many issues. MBNA have told me so far that they do not need to provide a copy of the original agreement. But that was the view of one of their contact centre staff not through the complaints procedure - which Ill now take up.

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thanks JonCris. will take this up with MBNA. The forum has proved yet again how useful it is with helpful advice. It certainly provides lots of food for thought on many issues. MBNA have told me so far that they do not need to provide a copy of the original agreement. But that was the view of one of their contact centre staff not through the complaints procedure - which Ill now take up.

Be prepared for the long haul - MBNA have consistenly lied to me and then defaulted my account - they are a law unto themselves. Oh yes and they also haven't complied with my SAR, never sent my a Default Notice, the list is endless...:mad:

 

This certainly would be the case if because of their oversight much of the book debt became unrecoverable

 

Mine is a A&L cc card from 1993 which they have managed to retrieve an application form for - however they seem to think that a template of 1995 T&Cs means they have complied.:rolleyes:

 

my thread is here if you wanna check out the gory details for research ;)

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/81907-mbna-ding-ding-round.html#post729106

PLEASE sign this petition to reduce amount of time CRAs hold your data

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/CreditRA

 

I HATE MBNA :evil::-x:mad::-x

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