Suz vs LlyodsTSB HELP!!!!

[Suzy75]

Thanks for that Aqua2 i was quite excited to have actually received a letter from SC&M to be honest and in their words 'a situation which gives rise to a dispute is not one the Bank wishes to continue' that to me is saying that they don't want to go to court and wish to resolve the matter........but without paying up!!!! I think it would be good to send a letter back to them maybe something like this:-

Thankyou for your letter dated 26th Aprilin relation to the above claim.

I am mindful of the vast number of claims with which you are currently dealing. In order to more speedily resolve this matter, I am willing to accept the sum of £736.00 i do not agree to waive my rights in respect of any other actions, nor do i agree to a clause of confidentiality.

I hope to hear from you very soon so that a reasonable conclusion to this claim might be achieved. I am sure that the courts would approve of our settling this matter in a timely manner and without further intervention.

However, should Llyods still wish to continue with the claim i am happy to do so and will also be applying for further interest and my costs to date.

For your records, i enclose my court bundle in reference to the hearing on 20th June 07.

I look forward to hearing from you.

I've taken some of a previous draft letter i read and roughly added a bit, pick it to pieces by all means!!!!

Thanks Suzy

[aqua2]

Sorry Suz,

 

What they are actually saying is, in order to frighten you off and stop you proceeding, we are trying to close your bank account.

 

So far your claim has been really simple and may have given them the impression that you are unsure of your facts and they may be able to frighten you.

 

In my next post I have drafted rather a long letter, from bits and pieces, which basically says to them, you want to fight? bring it on.

 

Once they read this, they may well understand that, in fact, you have a lot of support behind you.

 

Please do not act on my response letter yet...

 

This is a quick draft, I am not a solicitor and there are more experienced folks around here than me.

 

In light of this, you should wait until we get some feedback from others, prior to taking any action.

[aqua2]

Suz's claim as issued only mentioned UTCCR.

 

The standard defence and their account closing letter highlighted additional causes under SOGAS and LD clauses.

 

I have drafted this letter as a response to [problem] and would welcome others thoughts, before Suz considers using it...

 

*******************************************************

 

Dear S,CaM, (Perhaps you should use 'Sirs' )

 

In respect of the proceedings issued, we are clearly aware that you intend to defend such, as you have issued a defence statement to the court, although we are surprised that you have chosen such a small claim to be your test case in these matters, given the quantity of similar claims you have settled.

 

In respect of Item (1):

 

Thank you for confirming we have a contract with the bank, you will note that in part 2 of the defence, you referred to this as a ‘commercial arrangement’. No doubt you will disclose and send a copy of the contract to me 14 days before the hearing, if you wish to rely upon this in court.

 

In respect of Item (2):

 

We thank you once again, for highlighting the liquidated damages clauses in your contract, enabling us to produce to the court, a second cause of action, to wit…

 

“where you have insufficient funds to cover them… …you must pay the necessary charges”

 

and from your defence statement…

 

“If the customer fails to ensure that there are sufficient cleared funds in the account to cover payments… … the Bank… … makes a charge.”

 

together with…

 

“Where you go overdrawn without an agreement… … we will make a charge.”

 

And submit that the court will clearly see these as ‘text-book’ style LD clauses.

 

There is no need for us to go into the details of such here, as solicitors, you will be fully aware of the cases in Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor Co Ltd [1915] AC 79, along with Murray v Leisure Play [2005] EWCA Civ 963 and the various other cases over the years.

 

Perhaps, at this stage, it may also be useful, to highlight the OFT’s thinking on these terms, relative to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations, their guidance notes are quite clear, to wit…

 

5.8 Disguised penalties.

Objections under the Regulations to an unfair financial penalty can apply to any term which requires excessive payment in the event of early termination, or for doing anything else that the supplier has an interest in deterring the consumer from doing. The Regulations are concerned with the intention and effects of terms, not just their mechanism. If a term has the effect of an unfair penalty, it will be regarded as such, and not as a 'core term'. Thus a penalty cannot be made fair by transforming it into provision requiring payment of a fee for exercising a contractual option.

 

Now, we know that your client doesn’t always agree with the OFT’s thinking, but as an independent body, we feel sure, the court will take their findings into account, on top of all the other evidence we have acquired.

 

Given that information, perhaps you would be kind enough to disclose to us the banks actual costs in dealing with the quoted scenarios?

 

In the alternative, we would also like to thank you for providing us with a third cause of action in this matter, under the Supply of Goods and Services Act.

 

Needless to say, you will be fully aware of that act and the requirement of a ‘reasonable’ fee for a service.

 

Given your insistence, that the charges levied are a fee for a service and in the highly unlikely event, that the court were to accept such an argument, then the charges must be reasonable.

 

Again, if you would be kind enough to confirm details of your client’s costs in dealing with such purported services, then provided these are fair and reasonable, as your client continually portrays, I can see matters being brought to a swift conclusion.

 

In conclusion of these parts, we like to thank you for expanding our claim from a single cause under UTCCR, into three separate causes, any one of which will result in our claim being successful.

 

 

Looking Ahead:

 

We have to say, that whilst veiled, the implication in this part, is that because we have decided to dispute whether the charges are enforceable according to our legal rights, your client has the intention of closing the account.

 

In the first part, once we arrive a trial, we will be offering your letter as further proof to the court of your unreasonable actions in this matter, when requesting that all of our costs be met, on the basis of such behaviour.

 

In the second part, as you are acting on your clients behalf, it may well behove you, to advise them of the Financial Ombudsman Service thinking on this matter, given that this tactic of harassment has so far, resulted in similar institutions being ordered to pay compensation, for such actions.

 

If you are not aware of these cases, the details are available on the FOS website at: http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/faq/answers/bank-charges_a8.html

 

 

In conclusion:

 

We cannot see any need to discuss a review of our banking arrangements, as we are, in accordance with our rights, simply disputing whether or not the charges are enforceable.

 

It is most regrettable, that had your client freely disclosed the information on their costs to satisfy us, as to their reasonableness, we would not have been forced into this position.

 

It is clear that as matters proceed, all that is happening, is that our claim is being reinforced,by your clients own admissions and the costs are continually rising.

 

With this in mind, perhaps in this case, it may be better for your client to settle the matter now and avoid all of the additional costs, which will surely ensue, once your unreasonable actions have been highlighted to the judge.

 

Failing this, we look forward to receiving copies of your clients detailed costs calculations, together with a copy of the contract continually referred to and any other evidence you intend to adduce at trial, 14 days prior to such.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

Suzy. X x x. (Not sure if they'll appreciate the kisses, but they might. LOL)

 

Suzy75

[Suzy75]

That letter sounds great to me Aqua2, although i'm no expert either!!! Kisses never hurt anyone though LOL

It would be nice to have some other views on my claim so far it's a bit quiet on my thread!!!!!!!! I would like to know about getting a letter sent, the sooner the better really, it would be nice to get them to just settle the claim before the hearing (fat chance i know)

Awaiting further advice (Anyone out there)

Thanks Suzy:rolleyes:

[Suzy75]

I've won, I've won yippeeeeee:D :D

Good afternoon all, i'm soooooo pleased haven't been well this last week, got home from seeing doc today and had another letter from SC&M waiting for me. It's states all Strictly without prejudice Confidential and Priviliged etc Then states again 5 points as to why Llyods are defending my claim and that the banks are at present in discussion with the OFT re the legal basis for claims blah blah but then on second page stated Accordingly, the bank is, without prejudice to the position set out above, willing to pay you the £1366.00 you are claiming by way of Bank charges and interest if pleaded, plus court fee of £120 in full and final settlement of your claim. So as i've already received £750 the sum of £736 will be paid into my account once i sign the letter as confirmation that i am bound by it's terms, and return it to SC&M.

So is that what i do now or do i go further and claim for my costs and interest from claim date??? Or is it best just to take the money and run?????

THANK YOU to everyone that has given me advice and support so far wouldn't have done it without you.

A VERY HAPPY SUZY75

[aqua2]

There you go Suz...

Patience and perseverance...

WELL DONE !!!!!!!

I'm so pleased for you....

 

Now you have them, you are in the driving seat...

There are normally five or six clauses...

Cross out all of them, except the one that says they will pay you. If they are settling, it is on your terms.

Unfortunately, just lately they are still delaying things, so even when you send back the letter, you end up waiting weeks for the money to actually arrive.

Write back, telling them you will not cease your action until the money is paid in full.

Also, it is your decision on interest and your costs,

Costs are not normally awarded in small claims, but you can make an application to the court for costs, on the basis of their unreasonable behaviour and as you stated you wanted interest, you would be quite right to tell them you want it.

As for interest, did your claim include any interest calculations?

 

Have you filled in the spreadsheet from this site to work out the interest amounts?

[BARTY]

Congratulations!! :D

Barty:)

[Suzy75]

Thanks Aqua and for all your help to, no when i initially started my claim i didn't add any interest was just claiming back the charges. I just wondered if i was able to claim interest from the date i started the claim and is it going to be an amount worth claiming or should i just leave it??

So do i need to send back the whole letter from SC&M cause there was just a bit at the bottom of it for me to sign stating:- I suzanne K agree to settle my claim on terms of this letter. Or should i write a letter back and state their 5 clauses and then cross then out etc

When do i need to inform the courts that i've settled, when the money is paid into my account???

Sorry for the questions again don't want to muck it up on the last hurdle!!!

Thanks

Suzy75

[Suzy75]

Thanks Barty and for your help. I'm chuffed to bits and very glad i don't have to go to court!!!!

Suzy75

[aqua2]

Thanks Aqua and for all your help to, no when i initially started my claim i didn't add any interest was just claiming back the charges. I just wondered if i was able to claim interest from the date i started the claim and is it going to be an amount worth claiming or should i just leave it??

So do i need to send back the whole letter from SC&M cause there was just a bit at the bottom of it for me to sign stating:- I suzanne K agree to settle my claim on terms of this letter. Or should i write a letter back and state their 5 clauses and then cross then out etc

When do i need to inform the courts that i've settled, when the money is paid into my account???

Sorry for the questions again don't want to muck it up on the last hurdle!!!

Thanks

Suzy75

 

Are the five points the usual Confidential blah de blah..

 

With one of them saying they will pay £XXX in settlement.

 

If so, delete every condition in the letter except the one saying they will pay £XXx in settlement and then you can sign it and send it back.

 

If you want to, you could just write to them saying that you are prepared to accept their sum of £XXX, in settlement, only on the basis, there are no pre-conditions and you will not cease any action until payment is recieved in full.

 

Do not notify the court, until you recieve payment.

 

But when you do get the money, write to the court and let them know.

 

Well Done Suz, i'm really pleased for you.

[housekeeper]

GREAT NEWS suzy 75 i wish i was as lucky i've not heard a thing from anyone and i'm having a night mare trying to get my court bundle together!!!!

well done thou:D

[Suzy75]

Are the five points the usual Confidential blah de blah..

 

With one of them saying they will pay £XXX in settlement.

 

If so, delete every condition in the letter except the one saying they will pay £XXx in settlement and then you can sign it and send it back.

 

If you want to, you could just write to them saying that you are prepared to accept their sum of £XXX, in settlement, only on the basis, there are no pre-conditions and you will not cease any action until payment is recieved in full.

 

Do not notify the court, until you recieve payment.

 

But when you do get the money, write to the court and let them know.

 

Well Done Suz, i'm really pleased for you.

 

Thanks Aqua2 Just wanted to pop the 5 points from the letter down for you to look at before i cross them out and send back.

1.As a matter of law,whether or not a clause providingfor a payment is a penalty only arises where there has been a breach of contract.

2.When you asked the Bank to make payments from your account that would have caused you to exceed any o/draft you had previously agreed with it, you were requesting it to agree to a new or higher overdraft. Your request to the Bank to make a payment was not a breach of contract, nor were you in breach of contract when the Bank either agreed to make that payment, or declined to do so.

3.The Bank was entitled to chargea fee for, amongst other things, urgentlyconsidering your request and for telling you it had agreed to it, alternatively for telling you it had not been agreed to it and returning the payment through the clearing system.

4.You were aware of existence and amount of the fees that the Bank charged for these services, and they were properly due under the contract between you and the Bank.

5.Your claim for repayment of these fees is therfore misconceived.

 

Phew, thats their 5 points, the thing i don't understand is what 'contract' are they talking about.....i can't remeber ever signing a contract with the Bank and also they've never asked or up't my over draft to compensate for any short comings in my account??? So they must be talking a load of Bull if you ask me.

Anyway the second page of the letter states..

Accordingly, the Bank is, without prejudice to the position set out above, willing to pay you the sum of blah blah and then it lists another 7 points, this is the sum owing, to maintain account in future and blah blah.

They've only given me until Thursday 10th May to sign letter and return so need to get it done ASAP.....

Hope that all makes sense, like i said before don't want to get caught out by them on last hurdle.

Thanks for your help

Suzy75:D

[aqua2]

Sorry Suz...

 

It's those seven points on the back, their terms of settlement...

 

Can you post what they say please...

[GuidoT]

This may help:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclays-bcard-woolwich-successes/48032-jakena-barclays-4.html?highlight=acceptance#post718754

[Suzy75]

Thanks for that GuidoT had a look at the draft letter on there that sounds like the sort of thing i should send back to SC&M, just worried that they would turn round and say 'unless it's under their terms your not having the money'!!!! But I suppose the ball is in my court and in my favour now? I need to get this done today only have until thursday to send letter back, or should I give SC&M a ring today and accept the full settlement over the phone and say a letter is on it's way??

Thanks for your Help

Suzy75;)

[Suzy75]

Sorry Suz...

 

It's those seven points on the back, their terms of settlement...

 

Can you post what they say please...

 

Okay Aqua2 here are the 7points from SC&M's letter:-

1.The above amounts (736 in total) will be credited to your account number XXX by the bank. This payment takes into account the sum of £750 already paid to you by our client on the 23/3/07.

2.The payment will be in full and final settlement of your claim.

3.The terms of this agreement are confidential to the parties and their legal representatives.

4.You agree to maintain your account with the bank within your agreed limits and in accordance with the terms that govern the account.

5.You can avoid these fees in future if you agree an increase in your o/draft with the Bank before you try and make payments that would take you over any previously agreed limits. If you do not do so, you will again incur these fees.

6.You make contact with Llyods Branch Manager on 0845 3000 000 to arrange a review of your account. The Bank wishes to avoid further situation which gives rise to disputes. A review may be useful to consider whether your current banking arrangements are the most appropriate for your needs.

7.You must notify the court immediately once payment has been made and provide a copy of your letter to court for our records.

At the end it says:- We look forward to hearing from you at your earliest convenience but no later than thursday 10th May.

Well i have already set up another account elsewhere so as soon as payment is received i will be closing my account with Llyods anyway (So they can stick that in their pipe and smoke it)

Is that pretty straight forward then, do i acknowledge any of it or just send back my own letter??

Thanks again peeps

Suzy75:D

[GuidoT]

SCM are normally content to accept a letter along the lines of my post 64.

[Suzy75]

Okay GuidoT gonna get letter done and in post and will see how it pans out??? I just want and end to this now.

Suzy75