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    • Hi there, Here is the sticky filled out as best as possible:  Which Court have you received the claim from? MCOL (County Court Business Centre, Northampton) Name of the Claimant: Uk Parking Control Limited Claimants Solicitors: DCB Legal Date of issue: March 2023 Following events: — DQ sent to me July 2023 — I filed a DQ in September 2023 — My claim was transferred to [my local court] September 2023 — Received Notice of Allocation to Small Claims Track (Hearing) including date for hearing in April 2024 — Witness statement due by May 14 — Claimant must pay court fees by May 17 — Court hearing on June 18   What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim? Please type out their particulars of claim (verbatim) less any identifiable data and round the amounts up/down. 1. The defendant is indebted to the claimant for a Parking Charge issued at [x] issued to vehicle [__] at Walcot Yard, Walcot Road, Bath, Ba1 5bg. 2. The PCN details are [___]. 3. The PCN(s) was issued on private land owned or managed by C. The vehicle was parked in breach of the Terms on Cs signs (the Contract), this incurring the PCNs. 4. The driver agreed to pay within 28 days but did not. D is liable as the driver or keeper. Despite requests, the PCN is outstanding. The Contract entitles C to damages.  AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS 1. £160 being the total of the PCN(s) and damages. 2. Interest at a rate of 8% per annum pursuant to s.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 from the date hereof at a daily rate of [x]p until judgement or sooner payment. 3. Costs and court fees   What is the value of the claim? ~260 Amount Claimed ~170 court fees ~35 legal rep fees ~50 Total Amount  ~260   Have you moved since the issuance of the PCN? No   Did you receive a letter of Claim With A reply Pack wanting I&E etc about 1mth before the claimform? No Here is the defence I filed:  DEFENCE 1. The parking charges referred to in this claim did not arise from any agreement of terms. The charge and the claim was an unexpected shock. The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to relief in the sum claimed, or at all. It is denied that any conduct by the driver was a breach of any prominent term and it is denied that this Claimant (understood to have a bare licence as managers) has standing to sue or form contracts in their own name. Liability is denied, whether or not the Claimant is claiming 'keeper liability', which is unclear from the Particulars. The facts as known to the Defendant: 2. It is admitted that on the material date the Defendant was the registered keeper of the vehicle in question, but liability is denied. 3. While working at a nearby premises, [___] the Defendant was informed by the manager that they had an informal verbal agreement with the developer and owner operator of [___], which supposedly allowed them to park there. Based on this information, the Defendant parked their car there in good faith. The Defendant was not aware of any restrictions or limitations to this agreement, and therefore believed that they had the right to park there without penalty. 4. The Defendant avers that the Claimant failed to serve a Notice to Keeper compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. Consequently, the claimant cannot transfer liability for this charge to the Defendant as keeper of the vehicle. 5. The Particulars of Claim ('POC') appear to be in breach of CPR 16.4, 16PD3 and 16PD7, and fail to "state all facts necessary for the purpose of formulating a complete cause of action”. 6. The Defendant is unable, on the basis of the POC, to understand with certainty what case is being pursued. 7. The POC are entirely inadequate, in that they fail to particularise (a) the contractual term(s) relied upon; (b) the specifics of any alleged breach of contract; and (c) how the purported and unspecified 'damages' arose and the breakdown of the exaggerated quantum. 8. The claim has been issued via Money Claims Online and, as a result, is subject to a character limit for the Particulars of Claim section of the Claim Form. The fact that generic wording appears to have been applied has obstructed any semblance of clarity. The Defendant trusts that the court will agree that a claim pleaded in such generic terms lacks the required details and requires proper particularisation in a detailed document within 14 days, per 16PD.3 9. The guidance for completing Money Claims Online confirms this and clearly states: "If you do not have enough space to explain your claim online and you need to serve extra, more detailed particulars on the defendant, tick the box that appears after the statement 'you may also send detailed particulars direct to the defendant.'" 10. No further particulars have been filed and to the Defendant's knowledge, no application asking the court service for more time to serve and/or relief from sanctions has been filed either. 11. In view of it having been entirely within the Claimant's Solicitors' gift to properly plead the claim at the outset and the claim being for a sum, well within the small claims limit, such that the Defendant considers it disproportionate and at odds with the overriding objective (in the context of a failure by the Claimant to properly comply with rules and practice directions) for a Judge to throw the erring Claimant a lifeline by ordering further particulars (to which a further defence might be filed, followed by further referral to a Judge for directions and allocation) the court is respectfully invited to strike this claim out. 13. Whilst the new Code and Act is not retrospective, it was enacted due to the failure of the self-serving BPA & IPC Codes of Practice. The Minister is indisputably talking about existing (not future) cases when declaring that 'recovery' fees were 'designed to extort money'. A clear steer for the Courts which it is hoped overrides mistakes made in a few appeal cases that the parking industry desperately rely upon (Britannia v Semark-Jullien, One Parking Solution v Wilshaw, Vehicle Control Services v Ward and Vehicle Control Services v Percy). 14. Far from being persuasive, regrettably these one-sided appeals saw Circuit Judges led in one direction by Counsel for parking firms, and the litigant-in-person consumers lacked the wherewithal to appeal. In case this Claimant tries to rely upon these, the Defendant avers that errors were made in every case. Evidence was either overlooked (including signage discrepancies in Wilshaw, where the Judge was also oblivious to the BPA Code of Practice and the DVLA KADOE requirement for landowner authority) or the Judge inexplicably sought out and quoted from the wrong Code altogether (Percy). In Ward, a few seconds' emergency stop out of the control of the driver was unfairly aligned with the admitted parking contract in Beavis. Those learned Judges were not in possession of the same level of information as the DLUHC, whose incoming statutory Code of Practice now clarifies such matters as a definition of 'parking' as well as consideration and grace periods and minor matters such as 'keying errors' or 'fluttering tickets/permits' where a PCN should not have been issued at all, or should have been cancelled in the pre-action dispute phase. POFA and CRA breaches 15. Pursuant to Schedule 4 paragraph 4(5) of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ('the POFA') the sum claimed exceeds the maximum potentially recoverable from a registered keeper, even in cases where a firm may have complied with other POFA requirements (adequate signage, Notice to Keeper wording/dates, and a properly communicated 'relevant contract/relevant obligation'). If seeking keeper/hirer liability - unclear from the POC - the Claimant is put to strict proof of full compliance and liability transferred. 16. Claiming costs on an indemnity basis is unfair, per the Unfair Contract Terms Guidance (CMA37, para 5.14.3), the Government guidance on the Consumer Rights Act 2015 ('CRA'). The CRA introduced new requirements for 'prominence' of both contract terms and 'consumer notices'. In a parking context, this includes signage and all notices, letters and other communications intended to be read by the consumer. 17. Section 71 creates a duty upon courts to consider the test of fairness, including (but not limited to) whether all terms/notices were unambiguously and conspicuously brought to the attention of a consumer. Signage must be prominent, plentiful, well placed and lit, and all terms unambiguous and obligations clear. The Defendant avers that the CRA has been breached due to unfair/unclear terms and notices, pursuant to s62 and paying due regard to examples 6, 10, 14 & 18 of Schedule 2 and the requirements for fair/open dealing and good faith. ParkingEye v Beavis is distinguished (lack of legitimate interest/prominence of terms) 18. ParkingEye overcame the possibility of their £85 charge being dismissed as punitive, however the Supreme Court clarified that ‘the penalty rule is plainly engaged’ in parking cases, which must each be determined on their own facts. That 'unique' case met a commercial justification test, and took into account the prominent yellow/black uncluttered signs with £85 in the largest/boldest text. Rather than causing other parking charges to be automatically justified, the Beavis case facts set a high bar that this Claimant has failed to reach. 19. Paraphrasing from the Supreme Court, deterrence is likely to be penal if there is a lack of a 'legitimate interest' in performance extending beyond the prospect of compensation flowing directly from the alleged breach. The intention cannot be to punish a driver, nor to present them with hidden terms, unexpected/cumbersome obligations nor 'concealed pitfalls or traps'. 20. In the present case, the Claimant has fallen foul of those tests. The Claimant’s small signs have vague/hidden terms and a mix of small font, and are considered incapable of binding a driver. Consequently, it remains the Defendant’s position that no contract to pay an onerous 'penalty' was seen or agreed. Binding Court of Appeal authorities which are on all fours with a case involving unclear terms and a lack of ‘adequate notice’ of a parking charge, include: (i) Spurling v Bradshaw [1956] 1 WLR 461 (‘red hand rule’) and (ii) Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking Ltd [1970] EWCA Civ2, both leading authorities confirming that a clause cannot be incorporated after a contract has been concluded; and (iii) Vine v London Borough of Waltham Forest: CA 5 Apr 2000, where Ms Vine won because it was held that she had not seen the terms by which she would later be bound, due to "the absence of any notice on the wall opposite the parking space'' (NB: when parking operator Claimants cite Vine, they often mislead courts by quoting out of context, Roch LJ's words about the Respondent’s losing case, and not from the ratio). 21. Fairness and clarity of terms and notices are paramount in the statutory Code and this is supported by the BPA & IPC Trade Bodies. In November 2020's Parking Review, solicitor Will Hurley, CEO of the IPC, observed: "Any regulation or instruction either has clarity or it doesn’t. If it’s clear to one person but not another, there is no clarity. The same is true for fairness. Something that is fair, by definition, has to be all-inclusive of all parties involved – it’s either fair or it isn’t. The introduction of a new ‘Code of Practice for Parking’ provides a wonderful opportunity to provide clarity and fairness for motorists and landowners alike." Lack of standing or landowner authority, and lack of ADR 22. DVLA data is only supplied to pursue parking charges if there is an agreement flowing from the landholder (ref: KADOE rules). It is not accepted that this Claimant (an agent of a principal) has authority from the landowner to issue charges in this place in their own name. The Claimant is put to strict proof that they have standing to make contracts with drivers and litigate in their own name. 23. The Claimant failed to offer a genuinely independent Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR). The Appeals Annex in the new incoming statutory Code shows that genuine disputes such as this would see the charge cancelled, had a fair ADR existed. Whether or not a person engaged with it, the Claimant's consumer blame culture and reliance upon the industry's own 'appeals service' should not sway the court into a belief that a fair appeal was ever on offer. The rival Trade Bodies' time-limited and opaque 'appeals' services fail to properly consider facts or rules of law and reject almost any dispute: e.g. the IAS upheld appeals in a woeful 4% of decided cases (IPC's 2020 Annual Report). Conclusion 24. The claim is entirely without merit. The Defendant believes that it is in the public interest that claims like this should be struck out because knowingly enhanced parking claims like this one cause consumer harm on a grand scale. 25. There is ample evidence to support the view - long held by many District Judges - that these are knowingly exaggerated claims. For HMCTS to only disallow those costs in the tiny percentage of cases that reach hearings whilst other claims to continue to flood the courts unabated, is to fail hundreds of thousands of consumers who suffer CCJs or pay inflated amounts, in fear of intimidating pre-action threats. 26. In the matter of costs, the Defendant asks: (a) at the very least, for standard witness costs for attendance at Court, pursuant to CPR 27.14, and (b) for a finding of unreasonable conduct by this Claimant, seeking costs pursuant to CPR 46.5. 27. Attention is drawn specifically to the (often-seen from this industry) distinct possibility of an unreasonably late Notice of Discontinuance. Whilst CPR r.38.6 states that the Claimant is liable for the Defendant's costs after discontinuance (r.38.6(1)) this does not normally apply to claims allocated to the small claims track (r.38.6(3)). However, the White Book states (annotation 38.6.1): "Note that the normal rule as to costs does not apply if a claimant in a case allocated to the small claims track serves a notice of discontinuance although it might be contended that costs should be awarded if a party has behaved unreasonably (r.27.14(2)(dg))." Statement of Truth I believe that the facts stated in this defence are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.
    • Hi, I was caught by the security guards today for shoplifting in John Lewis. I think total amount is about £500. They said they saw me on CCTV last week, I was freaked out so I admitted it. I know it’s awful… I cried as I was too scared and begged them pls don’t call the police. They took pics of me and wrote down my details from banking app as I didn’t have any id with me. I told them my difficulties that I was scammed £35k recently and I lost my job so I stole those things and sell them. I apologised and they said they won’t call the police but I’m banned and will receive letters from RLP for fines which including this time and the last time(I didn’t give back the goods I took last time). I know it’s very very bad, I feel shameful and so depressed so hopeless about everything happened. I wonder since it’s a lot of money, will they sue me, take me to the court, or will they change their mind to call the police when they check the cctv footage to check how much I owe them? I said sorry I really couldn’t afford the fine at this situation, they said it’s their job they can’t do anything. Later when I was out of the mall, the security guard said, I can call RLP to negotiate about the fee. Also I’m probably moving to another city in 2 months, so if they want to take me to court but I didn’t receive any letters what should I do… and the security guy told me it’s worse as I traveled to this city and stealing stuff. I’m home now but feeling awful, wish people could give me some advice, thank you very much.
    • Before you do any of the above – Stop! You need to spend a few days reading up on the stories on this sub- forum so that you understand the principles and you understand how to go about making your claim. We will help you – and you have a better than 95% chance of getting your money back – but you need to be in control of what you are doing. We will help you – but this is a self-help forum and you need to have done the reading so that you are confident of each step and you know your way forward. Please don't do anything at all – in particular don't send a letter of claim – until you have done all the reading and I would suggest that probably you will start drafting your letter of claim over the weekend. Also, you haven't told us anything about what has happened. We don't know dates, items dispatched, value, whether they were properly declared, whether you bought so-called insurance, you have been declined reimbursement but we don't know why. If you want us to help you then you will have to give us this basic information. Also the fact that you are an eBay trader makes this slightly more complicated although it doesn't at all affect your chances of success.  Read the other threads on this sub- forum – and especially the pinned threads at the top in order to understand the principles. You also quickly understand the kind of help that we will give you and you will understand some of the draft documents which have been used in other successful claims.
    • Thanks, I'm finishing up the skeleton and hope to have it done today. Will look at statement of case too and get that done over the next few days.
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NatWest Charges- A guide


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Statement information going back to October 5th 2002 should become available over this weekend. If the account was opened within that time friame, then from the account being opened to today will be coming online this weekend.

.

FSA Waiver on Bank Charges:http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/Regulated/Notify/Waiver/pdf/dir_quart_0709.pdf

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Hi there,

 

I am an international student banking with Natwest. Today Natwest charged me £38 for not having sufficient money in the account for a direct debit transaction which takes place on 22nd of every month. I was told by the bank that the University tried to withdraw money from the account at 1.30pm and I only manage to transfer money (internal transfer, which I assume to be immediate) at around 4ish.

Do you think I could claim a refund for that sum?

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Hi there,

 

I am an international student banking with Natwest. Today Natwest charged me £38 for not having sufficient money in the account for a direct debit transaction which takes place on 22nd of every month. I was told by the bank that the University tried to withdraw money from the account at 1.30pm and I only manage to transfer money (internal transfer, which I assume to be immediate) at around 4ish.

Do you think I could claim a refund for that sum?

 

If its your first charge on the account then ask them if they are able to refund the amount as a gesture of goodwill, if not then it is the normal reclaims process.

.

FSA Waiver on Bank Charges:http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/Regulated/Notify/Waiver/pdf/dir_quart_0709.pdf

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I have spoken to the branch manager today and explained to him my circumstances and disappointingly I was informed that he has no discretion to return me the money. He said unless it is a case of hospitalisation and bereavement, his hands are tied.

 

He told me to write in and he will forward my letter to the relevant department.

 

My position is that I'm leaving this country in 3 weeks time and will not be back until sometime in October. Then again, my stay in October is only for no more than 3 weeks.

 

What should I do? Should I proceed to write the letter or is there another channel where I could air my grievance more speedily?

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  • 4 months later...

hi have sent a letter to nat west asking for my charges back as i thought they was unfair this was well over a year ago i had i letter from them saying they thought the charges was fair will anything be happening or should i apply again

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  • 4 months later...

Hi

 

Concerning taking the fight to Natwestie on the Bank Charges front, please see the excellent work done by BankFodder (I believe) at

The Consumer Forums - FAQ - How do I reclaim my bank charges if they have been misrepresented

 

We need to find clear statements by Natwestie that their bank charges are not used for what they said they were to the OFT. This should be fairly simple if we all work together to gather the evidence that CAG is seeking and forward it asap. These would come from

 

1. Letters responding to Bank charges claim requests

2. Any copies of Terms and Conditions or any other printed material where the bank has justified it's bank charges on a basis different to that with which it 'won' it's bank charges appeal at the SC.

 

To that end, according to one of the letters I received from Natwestie in the past, the document which would clearly set this out would be Natwest's own published document titled 'Personal and Private Banking - A Guide to Fees and Interest'. Ideally, perhaps, for each year covering the duration of the period of one's claim.

 

I wonder, if one can't find this document (most of us trash that stuff don't we :D), can we ask the bank to send it to us? Of course, if they know the statements therein might implicate them in the light of their dodgy defence to the Supreme Court, they might not want to part with this readily.

 

Either way, I think it's up to all Natwestie customers to band together and try and make these resources available as part of the evidence Library CAG is building to mount these new claims on the basis of Misrepresentation.

The matrix is intrinsically flawed. Within it is the program for it's own destruction. If you are reading this, you are in the matrix and it's days are numbered...so watch out! :eek:

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Hi All

 

Concerning taking the fight to Natwestie on the Bank Charges front, please see the excellent work done by BankFodder (I believe) at

The Consumer Forums - FAQ - How do I reclaim my bank charges if they have been misrepresented and other associated articles.

 

We need to find clear statements by Natwestie that their bank charges are not used for what they said they were to the OFT. This should be fairly simple if we all work together to gather the evidence that CAG is seeking and forward it asap. These would come from

 

1. Letters responding to Bank charges claim requests

2. Any copies of Terms and Conditions or any other printed material where the bank has justified it's bank charges on a basis different to that with which it 'won' it's bank charges appeal at the SC.

 

To that end, according to one of the letters I received from Natwestie in the past, the document which would clearly set this out would be Natwest's own published document titled 'Personal and Private Banking - A Guide to Fees and Interest'. Ideally, perhaps, for each year covering the duration of the period of one's claim.

 

I wonder, if one can't find this document (most of us trash that stuff don't we :D), can we ask the bank to send it to us? Of course, if they know the statements therein might implicate them in the light of their dodgy defence to the Supreme Court, they might not want to part with this readily.

 

Either way, I think it's up to all Natwestie customers to band together and try and make these resources available as part of the evidence Library CAG is building to mount these new claims on the basis of Misrepresentation.

The matrix is intrinsically flawed. Within it is the program for it's own destruction. If you are reading this, you are in the matrix and it's days are numbered...so watch out! :eek:

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I've just seen a copy of their current leaflet titled 'Personal and Private Banking - A Guide to Fees and Interest' and on page 4 it outlines 'The price for your banking services'.

 

In this current version it does :evil: include 'our overdraft and unpaid item charges (section 7)' and this would suggest that their argument before the SC was consistent. However, I suspect this is not the case with older versions of this leaflet as this one may have been hurriedly amended late last year when the barristers for the banks decided this was the argument they were going to stick with in appealing the Bank charges decisions which had gone against them beforehand.

 

Thinking of which, would anyone have details of the earlier defences posted by the banks when they initially lost and kept re-appealing it all the way up the chain? Again, their defence statements in those instances would be quite helpful to clear things up.

 

It would appear to me that for the Misrepresentation argument to hold water, we'll need past issues of this leaflet in particular where this clause was not inserted here as well as various correspondence from the bank.

The matrix is intrinsically flawed. Within it is the program for it's own destruction. If you are reading this, you are in the matrix and it's days are numbered...so watch out! :eek:

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I am looking in my fiels for such, really would be interested if ANYONE has evidence on this like copies of old leaflets or letters etc. It really bugs me that the banks have not told the truth from the outset, and the media have not made anything of this.

 

Two things come to mind. Given that they've made statements as part of a defence to County Court claims, which they flatly contradicted in thier pleadings in the Supreme court, aren't they guilty of contempt of court?

 

Wouldn't the sort of info we need be covered by a subject access request? You can ask for anything but surely if you ask for all hostoric T & C's and at least the info provided in the leaflets if no originals of the leaflets exist.

The views I express here are mere speculation based on my experience. I am not qualified nor insured to give legal advice and any action you take will be at your own risk.

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IDS

 

You're thinking along the right lines.;) As you well know, the banksters don't play fair, they play to win period and will try and get away with whatever they can.:sad:

 

That said, it's in all our interests to get this evidence however we can and share it to Bankfodder et al for the evidence library.

 

How do we get hold of the past statements and defences they put in for the earlier cases that they lost before appealing to the Supreme Court? I wonder if they've implicated themselves in those defences?

 

The more of us that come forward with whatever we can find will help build a picture towards this.

The matrix is intrinsically flawed. Within it is the program for it's own destruction. If you are reading this, you are in the matrix and it's days are numbered...so watch out! :eek:

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"How do we get hold of the past statements and defences they put in for the earlier cases that they lost before appealing to the Supreme Court?"

 

That should be the focus, that and the other documents.

 

I've no problem with playing to win, but if you make a statement which you swore to, then flatly contradict it, well I don't think that's anyway to go on in business or in life generally.

 

Its a bit like that blatant handball by Thierry Henry. The authorities did bugger all thus saying to children everyway its ok to cheat so long as you get away with it and benefit massivey from it. And they wonder why things are going downhill...

The views I express here are mere speculation based on my experience. I am not qualified nor insured to give legal advice and any action you take will be at your own risk.

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Of course IDS. I am in no way legitimising their actions - just exposing the nature of the beast!

The matrix is intrinsically flawed. Within it is the program for it's own destruction. If you are reading this, you are in the matrix and it's days are numbered...so watch out! :eek:

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As this thread is entitled Natwest Charges I thought I should mention here.

on looking at our account balance this morning i noticed that there was a charge on our account, this charge was for an unpaid direct debit, however it was not for the usual £38 or £35 but it was for and wait for it £5.00b yep that is £5.

 

does this mean they have seen sense and reduced their level of charges...

any thought or comments

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As this thread is entitled Natwest Charges I thought I should mention here.

on looking at our account balance this morning i noticed that there was a charge on our account, this charge was for an unpaid direct debit, however it was not for the usual £38 or £35 but it was for and wait for it £5.00b yep that is £5.

 

does this mean they have seen sense and reduced their level of charges...

any thought or comments

To a degree. They started this policy for BOTH Natwest and RBS accounts late in 2009, around September I think. I also think it shows they were probably not expecting to win the SC decision. They may now be kicking themselves for doing this ahead of time though as £5 is quite a ways from £35-£38. What I suspect is that going forward, when and if the 'heat' ever goes away concerning bank charges, they'll start increasing them again in some manner.

 

We'll have to see the outcome of some of the current challenges to bank charges using the new POC arguments.

The matrix is intrinsically flawed. Within it is the program for it's own destruction. If you are reading this, you are in the matrix and it's days are numbered...so watch out! :eek:

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Another way of looking at it is that RBS is now somethin like 80% government owned so they may have been pushed in this direction from behind the scenes.

The matrix is intrinsically flawed. Within it is the program for it's own destruction. If you are reading this, you are in the matrix and it's days are numbered...so watch out! :eek:

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"Another way of looking at it is that RBS is now somethin like 80% government owned so they may have been pushed in this direction from behind the scenes."

 

I don't buy this though, with Northern Rock, which the government fully owns they have pointed out time and time again that it is run at arms length. Same with RBS, I believe the initial comment, similar to those that were exressed at the time, that it was a good poker hand. If they lost well they look more reasonable than others, if they don't well its good PR I suppose.

 

Whilst I welcome the move and will admit they seem to be the best bank if you know you are going to have unpaid items. Well apart from Halifax but thier new charging structure seems designed to price people out o having OD's altogether. But it frankly irritates me that they try to maintain that the change is in a no way an admission that the charges were too high before (when the justification for such amoutns WERE cost).

 

I do not believe they are now losing £33 per time, in fact I believe the cost would be minimal for automated transactions since there is really work involved. I DO feel they should, where they have done people real damamge, offer at least the difference, because however they try to spin it on some level this IS an admission.

 

Other charges have also reduced but are higher than £5. Its remarkable is such a fiercly competitive market (this is what the banks call it) there hasn't been more innovation in this regard. There again you could point out that the new metro bank is the first NEW entrant to the market for 150 years and say this stuff about competition is therefore pish.

 

I hope the next government shows some backbone on this issue.

The views I express here are mere speculation based on my experience. I am not qualified nor insured to give legal advice and any action you take will be at your own risk.

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NatWest Charges: The Definitive Guide(Updated March 2010)

 

Well the basics of charges is statements and knowing what the charge is for so we have 4 basic charges all claimable. The fifth one there is on the basis that the other four have caused the problem to arise and therefore they are penalising you more.

 

1) Unarranged Borrowing Fee or Maintenance Charge-- This is when you have an overdraft or do not have an overdraft and you go over that. The bank charges through charging periods which last a month and the charge goes out at the end of the month.(This was until April 2009 when it changed so the charge goes out 21 days after the statement date)

 

2) Unpaid Item- this appears on the statement and is when there is not sufficient funds in the account the previous working day(mon to Friday) to cover either a cheque, a direct debit or standing order to cover the amount going out. The bank "bounces" or does not pay the item and you get charged for it immediately. (This was until June 2009 when it changed so that charges for this goes out 21 days after your statement date)

 

3) Card Misuse or Guaranteed Card Payment Fee(gtee card pymt)--This is when an item is paid by switch and goes through the account when the account is over its agreed or unagreed overdraft.(This was until June 2009 when it changed so that the charges for this goes out 21 days after your statement date)

 

4) Referral Fee-- This is when an item is, rather than bounced is paid which takes the account over an agreed or unagreed overdraft by more than £26. Three charges maximum a month on that last one. (This was until June 2009 when it changed so that the charges for this goes out 21 days after your statement date).

 

5) Card Recovery Fee- This is when someone comes round to your house to recover your bank card

 

 

We have the main charges so what is the amounts i am looking for?

 

1) Unarranged Borrowing/Maintenance Charge

in 2000 it was £14 which then increased to £20 from April 2003 and then £28 from September 2004.

 

2) Unpaid Items

In 2000 it was £30 which went up to £38 from March 2005 (for businesses this is currently £35) Edit: From November 2007 max charge per day is £114 or three items.

 

3) Card Misuse or guaranteed Card Payment Fee-

In 2000 this was £25 and then went up in March 2005 to £35

 

4) Referral Fees

It was £25 per item(maximum of £75 per month). This changed in September 2004 to £30 per item(maximum of £90 per month).

 

5) Card Recovery Fee ---£125(not aware if any change to this charge has occurred)

 

This is the basics to charges and does not include Advantage Gold and Unarranged Borrowing/Maintenance Charges.

 

Since the guide was updated in August 2009 a further change has occurred.

 

As of the charging period following 1st October 2009* the charges are as follows:

Maintenance Charge: £20.00 per charging period

Unapaid Item: £5.00 per item and maximum of 10 items per charging period.

Guaranteed Card Payment: £15.00 per item and maximum of 7 items per charging period.

Paid Referral Fees: £15 per item and a maximum of 6 items per charging period.

 

 

 

*Charging periods and how the new charges come in(1st October 2009) :

 

Charging periods are now based on your bank statement date. If you have statements on 1st of the month then 21 days later your charges go out. Furthermore, if the charging period is the 1st of the month then the new charges will come into effect on that date and in November the new charges will be taken from the account. However, if your statement date is 31st of the month then until that date you will be dealt with under the old charges regime until 31st October 2009. You can change the statement date to coincide with the start of the month which would take effect two months later.

 

 

Advantage Gold Accounts

 

Advantage Gold is a service fee so cannot be claimed* and Unarranged Borrowing/Maintenance Charge is going over an arranged or unarranged overdraft without prior consent which can be claimed. A quick tip as to whether it is or is not an Advantage Gold account is that at the top of the statement it says Advantage Gold. If it was converted back the fee goes out at the end of the following month. The bank has changed the name of Unarraged Borrowing to Maintenance Charge on August 10th 2007.

 

 

*The exception to this is if you can prove that you could not benefit whatsoever from the account ie car breakdown cover and you do not drive or medical reason why you cannot travel abroad. In this instance you may be able to reclaim partially based on what you have benefitted from.

 

Some background info first

 

In 2001, NatWest was taken over by the Royal Bank of Scotland Group and replaced the NatWest computer systems as well as aligning charges to the RBS Bank model of charges. That means that the Advantage Gold charge and the Unarranged Borrowing Fee were put together as one from October 2002.

 

How much was Advantage Gold and what was the amounts in question?

 

I am taking my starting point from when it was unclear so October 2002 so, for those that, are claiming so we have the charges as follows:

 

October 2002: The Advanntage Gold fee was £6

September 2003: The fee went up to £9

From July 2005: It was £10

From June 2006: It was £12

From April 28th 2008: It is £12.95

 

quick note though, during 2002/3 there was a special charge for certain people trialling the newer Advantage Gold benefits which was £7.50.

 

So how do I work out what is the Advantage Gold and Unarranged Borrowing charge?

 

31 jan Charges 02jan-A/C XXXXXXXX £40

 

 

The statement may say charge £20 so that is £14 Unarranged Borrowing and £6 ADGD fee,

 

or £29 which is £20 Unarranged Borrowing and £9 ADGD fee, or £37 which is Unarranged Borrowing and £9 ADGD,

 

or £38 which is £28 Unarranged Borrowing and £9 ADGD,

 

or £40 which is £28 Unarranged Borrowing and £12 ADGD fee

 

or £40.95 is £28 maintenace charge and £12.95 Advantage Gold.

 

However, if you converted the account back from advantage gold partially through the month it may have something like this 31Jan06 charges £34.50 which is £28 Unarranged Borrowing and £6.50 ADGD.

 

 

Please be aware that since November 2008 the charges have appeared as separate entries on the statements.

 

 

Customer can choose to pay £10 a month and their unarranged fees will be reduced.

 

Maintenance Charge £17

Paid Referral £17 (max £51 per calender month)

Guaranteed Card Payment Fee £17

Unpaid Item £17(maximum £51 per day)

 

 

Letters have been going out in November 2007 offering this option.

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  • 1 year later...

Natwest hide charges so if you challenge a charge they just refer you to their conditions. If I were to use my visa debit card to purchase say a piece of furniture costing £301 no fee would be applied to this transaction. However, to purchase foreign currency for the same amount from my holiday company they add £4.50. How is this a cash advance?? The money is in my account so they are not advancing me cash. The Banks service is so poor that I never go into a branch and only ever use on line banking. I would change banks but as a bank pensioner I do get some perks. I am ashamed to tell people that I worked for 'RIP OFF NATWEST'.

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