HSBC ..Total Charges Can I claim these????

[hsbcfiddled]

So what happens during the 28 days?

 

Not blonde!

[jowalshy]

Not a lot. I took the time reading up on the next process (and twidlled my thumbs) It is very frustrating.

[hsbcfiddled]

But I wont be back until June 8th and the expiry date will be approx 24-26th May?

 

How will this affect me?

[lateralus]

this is for after you file your mcol - keep it handy - After You Have Issued Your Claim

Your POC's state that you will be supplying a schedule of charges, but MCOL does not allow you to attach it to your claim at the time of filing.

So, once you have filed your claim, you need to send 2 copies of your schedule of charges, clearly marked with your claim no. + a brief covering letter asking for them to be filed with your claim to:

 

 

Quote:

The Court Manager,

Money Claim Online

Northampton County Court

21-27 St. Katharine's Street

Northampton

NN1 2LH

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

(Your Name) –v- (Bank)

Claim No: ********

Date Issued: xx/xx/xx

 

Please find enclosed a schedule of penalty charges taken from me by the defendant, along with interest claimed at the annual rate of 8% pursuant to section 69 of the County Court Act. The interest in addition to the amount in charges equates to the total amount of my claim, namely £(AMOUNT).

 

I respectfully request that the enclosed schedule should be attached to the particulars of my claim.

 

Yours sincerely,

Wait until you receive the Notice of Acknowledgement (not the Notice of Issue) from the court and then send a copy to the bank’s solicitors, since they are the ones who will now be dealing with your claim. Their name and address will be on page 2.

 

 

Quote:

Dear Sir,

 

(Your Name) -v- (Bank)

Claim No: ********

Date Issued: xx/xx/xx

 

Please find enclosed a copy of my schedule of charges relating to the above claim.

 

(If, and only if, you are claiming overdraft interest on your penalties, also include this paragraph)

 

 

I understand you have a policy of initially rejecting claims for overdraft interest. However, should this be the case after you have reviewed my claim, you should be aware that my claim for overdraft interest has been meticulously calculated and double checked. It only ever relates to the cumulative charges within the overdrawn balance of the account at the point that the overdraft interest was debited

 

If it is that in your view the interest is not claimable, I am prepared to discuss this with yourseves and the judge in court.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

and this will help you fill out the mcol:Getting MCOL Right(1

[jowalshy]

Hi HSBCFiddled, I am not sure of the timelines after defence as I am at that stage at the moment. I think it might be cutting it a bit fine though. I will have a look around the site and see if I can get some more info for you.

[jowalshy]

Hi, its me again. I found this:-

 

Claim Timetable:

Your claim will generally be deemed served 5 days after filing . The deemed date of service will be on the Notice of Issue sent to you by the court.

 

The bank will have 14 days from the deemed date of service to acknowledge. If they do, a Notice of Acknowledgement will be sent to you

 

The bank will then have an additional 14 days in which to file a defence, ie a total of 28 days from the deemed date of service.

 

Once the bank has filed a defence, your claim will be transferred to your local court who will send you a copy of their defence and an Allocation Questionnaire which you fill in and return within 14 days.

 

All timescales are calendar days, should the due date fall on a weekend/ bank holiday, they have until the next working day.

 

 

Be aware that some courts are doing away with the AQ stage and pushing for a court date. Have a read of some threads regarding "No AQ"

[hsbcfiddled]

Thanks Jo

[hsbcfiddled]

Well times up......14 days after LBA and no reply but thats no suprise.

 

However i am going to hold onto starting MCOL because i am going away for three weeks, in approximately three weeks time and wouldnt be here for 28 day expiry date from commencement of MCOL.

[Castlebest]

Hiya Fiddled, that should be OK, effectively all you are doing is giving them more time to respond to your letters.

pete

[hsbcfiddled]

Thanks Pete.

 

Dont want to give them more time but if i MCOL today 28 days will be up more or less on 25th May but i wont be here until June 8th/9th

[hsbcfiddled]

I have been waiting now 33 days for details of charges ect on business account. However i decided to contact my accountant as i had no statements. He tells me that during 1995 to 2001 that HSBC charged me over £8000 in charges and £6000 in interest on the business account.

Now thats £14,000 of anybody's money more to the point its bloody well my money not HSBC's.

If you read further back i mentioned paying off business debts through my personal account and that in 2004 HSBC put me on a managed loan for £16000.

So i figure they are charging me compounded interest on the £16k managed loan whilst they have had the use of £14k of my money that they have lent out to others to profit from themselves not including interest they have charged me on the managed loan and the interest they also charged me on loans up being put on a managed loan.

Make sense does it?????????

still i will wait another week to see if statements arrive.

Letter in response to my LBA on personal account is a week over due but I am going to see what happens with business loan first as thats where all my troubles stem from.

Accountant said "if they hadnt taken all those charges off you youd still be in business" HMMMMMMMMMM theres a thought.

[lateralus]

read dolfos thread while waiting - you can skip through else you'll be there ages - just read her posts.

Business account over 19,000 in bank charges.** SETTLED IN FULL *** (1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page)

it reminds me of what you are saying - i followed it forever - but they got there!

 

also, have i pointed this one out before - getting the ml money back with the current accout - although this is personal - not business. the idea is there. Husband v HSBC - Paid (1 2)

 

good luck with whatever you try!

[Castlebest]

Hiya Fiddled, if your going back over the 6 year limit Bongs thread is required reading. I think your best chance of getting a schedule of charges is from your accountant's records, I know people have had problems getting information from HSBC past the 6 year limit, Bong and Crusher should be able to advise you better here.

 

These threads may be of help to you

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/6986-data-protection-act-non.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/5078-10-data-protection-act.html

 

pete

[hsbcfiddled]

thanks lattie and pete.

[hsbcfiddled]

Can you please let me know what you think...thanks

HSBC

8 Canada Square,

London

E14 5HQ

Request for repayment of unlawful charges

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Company Name: HSBC Fiddled

 

On the 28th March I requested in writing details of charges against the above account in which you had 40 days to reply. The deadline for a reply expired some 3 days ago and to date I have not received a reply.

I can only imagine it is because you are being snowed under by an avalanche of requests for the return of unlawful charges.

I am therefore writing to ask you to refund to me the unlawful charges that you have levied from my account from 1/05/1994 to the 30/04/2001.

 

I now understand that the regime of fees which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law.

The charges debited to the Account are punitive in nature; are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred by the bank; exceed any alleged actual loss to the bank in respect of any breaches of contract; and are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the bank which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit. The precedent for this was Dunlop Pneumatic v New Garage [1915] AC 79.along with Murray v. Leisure play [2005] EWCA Civ 963.

 

If you say that they are not, then will you please demonstrate this by letting me have a full breakdown of the costs to which you have been put by as a result of my breaches, in order to reassure me that your penalties really do reflect your costs?

 

Additionally, it has now been confirmed that your particularly high level of penalties are considered to be unfair per se by the OFT who reported on the 5th April 2006 and are therefore presumed to be unlawful in the absence of specific proof to the contrary.

 

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened this account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

 

I consider that your repeated representations that your charges are fair and reasonable are deceptive and that they have deceived me into agreeing to pay them.

Your concealment of the true nature of your charges and failure to supply my request for list of charges has prevented me from asserting my right until now.

 

 

(1.)

I calculate that you have taken £8877.00 in unlawful charges, plus £6595.00 which you have charged me in overdraft interest for the sum which you have taken. Total £15572.00 to which I shall require interest applied at the same 14.8% Apr compounded interest that you have charged me.

 

I enclose a schedule of these charges which I am claiming with this letter.

 

(2.)

Furthermore by the accumulation of these charges you have lead me into agreeing to loans to pay off overdrafts and eventually to what you referred to as a consolidation loan (your term not mine).

However after signing in February 2004 the consolidation loan was later called a Managed loan (again your term, not mine).

None of these loans would have been necessary had I not been charged these unlawful charges.

The managed loan that was later applied to my personal account (managed loan account no. xxxxxxxxx) charges interest at 14.8% APR & I therefore shall require interest applied to the return of these unlawful charges at the same 14.8% APR.

Failure to agree to pay the interest at the same rate that you have applied to me you will be deemed to be unduly enriching the bank which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit.

I also demand the return of all 39 payments of £265.33 up today’s date totalling £10,347.87 that I have made against same managed loan account no. xxxxxxxxxxxxx plus interest at same 14.8%APR as applied to me by yourselves.

Again by failure to agree to pay the interest at the same rate that you have applied to me you will be deemed to be unduly enriching the bank which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit.

 

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

I will give you 14 days to reply to me accepting, unconditionally, my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment.

 

If you do not respond, or you do not respond positively, within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect. I believe that these targets are more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments.

 

After that, there will be no further communication from me and I shall issue a claim at the expiry of the second deadline.

 

Yours faithfully,

HSBC Fiddled

[hsbcfiddled]

bump

[hsbcfiddled]

What do you think Latty.

 

Can you please let me know what you think...thanks

 

HSBC

8 Canada Square,

London

E14 5HQ

 

Request for repayment of unlawful charges

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Company Name: HSBC Fiddled

 

On the 28th March I requested in writing details of charges against the above account in which you had 40 days to reply. The deadline for a reply expired some 3 days ago and to date I have not received a reply.

I can only imagine it is because you are being snowed under by an avalanche of requests for the return of unlawful charges.

I am therefore writing to ask you to refund to me the unlawful charges that you have levied from my account from 1/05/1994 to the 30/04/2001.

 

I now understand that the regime of fees which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law.

The charges debited to the Account are punitive in nature; are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred by the bank; exceed any alleged actual loss to the bank in respect of any breaches of contract; and are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the bank which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit. The precedent for this was Dunlop Pneumatic v New Garage [1915] AC 79.along with Murray v. Leisure play [2005] EWCA Civ 963.

 

If you say that they are not, then will you please demonstrate this by letting me have a full breakdown of the costs to which you have been put by as a result of my breaches, in order to reassure me that your penalties really do reflect your costs?

 

Additionally, it has now been confirmed that your particularly high level of penalties are considered to be unfair per se by the OFT who reported on the 5th April 2006 and are therefore presumed to be unlawful in the absence of specific proof to the contrary.

 

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened this account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

 

I consider that your repeated representations that your charges are fair and reasonable are deceptive and that they have deceived me into agreeing to pay them.

 

Your concealment of the true nature of your charges and failure to supply my request for list of charges has prevented me from asserting my right until now.

 

 

(1.)

I calculate that you have taken £8877.00 in unlawful charges, plus £6595.00 which you have charged me in overdraft interest for the sum which you have taken. Total £15572.00 to which I shall require interest applied at the same 14.8% Apr compounded interest that you have charged me.

 

I enclose a schedule of these charges which I am claiming with this letter.

 

(2.)

Furthermore by the accumulation of these charges you have lead me into agreeing to loans to pay off overdrafts and eventually to what you referred to as a consolidation loan (your term not mine).

 

However after signing in February 2004 the consolidation loan was later called a Managed loan (again your term, not mine).

None of these loans would have been necessary had I not been charged these unlawful charges.

 

The managed loan that was later applied to my personal account (managed loan account no. xxxxxxxxx) charges interest at 14.8% APR & I therefore shall require interest applied to the return of these unlawful charges at the same 14.8% APR.

Failure to agree to pay the interest at the same rate that you have applied to me you will be deemed to be unduly enriching the bank which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit.

 

I also demand the return of all 39 payments of £265.33 up today’s date totalling £10,347.87 that I have made against same managed loan account no. xxxxxxxxxxxxx plus interest at same 14.8%APR as applied to me by yourselves.

 

Again by failure to agree to pay the interest at the same rate that you have applied to me you will be deemed to be unduly enriching the bank which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit.

 

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

I will give you 14 days to reply to me accepting, unconditionally, my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment.

 

If you do not respond, or you do not respond positively, within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect. I believe that these targets are more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments.

 

After that, there will be no further communication from me and I shall issue a claim at the expiry of the second deadline.

 

Yours faithfully,

HSBC Fiddled

vbrep_register("806880")

[Tigs33]

I think you letter is very good but I would put a total amount of the claim in (charges plus loan interest) just to make it clear the total amount you are claiming.

 

Good luck!!!

[Tigs33]

Something along the lines of this.

 

(1.)

I calculate that you have taken £8877.00 in unlawful charges, plus £6595.00 which you have charged me in overdraft interest for the sum which you have taken. Total £15572.00 to which I shall require interest applied at the same 14.8% Apr compounded interest that you have charged me.

 

I enclose a schedule of these charges which I am claiming with this letter.

 

(2.)

Furthermore by the accumulation of these charges you have lead me into agreeing to loans to pay off overdrafts and eventually to what you referred to as a consolidation loan (your term not mine).

 

However after signing in February 2004 the consolidation loan was later called a Managed loan (again your term, not mine).

None of these loans would have been necessary had I not been charged these unlawful charges.

 

The managed loan that was later applied to my personal account (managed loan account no. xxxxxxxxx) charges interest at 14.8% APR & I therefore shall require interest applied to the return of these unlawful charges at the same 14.8% APR.

Failure to agree to pay the interest at the same rate that you have applied to me you will be deemed to be unduly enriching the bank which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit.

 

I also demand the return of all 39 payments of £265.33 up today’s date totalling £10,347.87 that I have made against same managed loan account no. xxxxxxxxxxxxx plus interest at same 14.8%APR as applied to me by yourselves.

 

Again by failure to agree to pay the interest at the same rate that you have applied to me you will be deemed to be unduly enriching the bank which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit.

I am therefore claiming the total of £25,919.87.

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

I will give you 14 days to reply to me accepting, unconditionally, my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment.

 

If you do not respond, or you do

[lateralus]

see, i told you tigs would be helpful!!!!!

[hsbcfiddled]

Thanks lattie and tigs How does this look now?

Request for repayment of unlawful charges

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Company Name: HSBC Fiddled

 

On the 28th March I requested in writing details of charges against the above account in which you had 40 days to reply. The deadline for a reply expired some 3 days ago and to date I have not received a reply.

I can only imagine it is because you are being snowed under by an avalanche of requests for the return of unlawful charges.

I am therefore writing to ask you to refund to me the unlawful charges that you have levied from my account from 1/05/1994 to the 30/04/2001.

 

I now understand that the regime of fees which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law.

The charges debited to the Account are punitive in nature; are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred by the bank; exceed any alleged actual loss to the bank in respect of any breaches of contract; and are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the bank which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit. The precedent for this was Dunlop Pneumatic v New Garage [1915] AC 79.along with Murray v. Leisure play [2005] EWCA Civ 963.

 

If you say that they are not, then will you please demonstrate this by letting me have a full breakdown of the costs to which you have been put by as a result of my breaches, in order to reassure me that your penalties really do reflect your costs?

 

Additionally, it has now been confirmed that your particularly high level of penalties are considered to be unfair per se by the OFT who reported on the 5th April 2006 and are therefore presumed to be unlawful in the absence of specific proof to the contrary.

 

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened this account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

 

I consider that your repeated representations that your charges are fair and reasonable are deceptive and that they have deceived me into agreeing to pay them.

 

Your concealment of the true nature of your charges and failure to supply my request for list of charges has prevented me from asserting my right until now.

 

 

(1.)

I calculate that you have taken £8877.00 in unlawful charges, plus £6595.00 which you have charged me in overdraft interest for the sum which you have taken. Total £15572.00 to which I shall require interest applied at the same 14.8% Apr compounded interest that you have charged me.

 

I enclose a schedule of these charges which I am claiming with this letter.

 

(2.)

Furthermore by the accumulation of these charges you have lead me into agreeing to loans to pay off overdrafts and eventually to what you referred to as a consolidation loan (your term not mine).

 

However after signing in February 2004 the consolidation loan was later called a Managed loan (again your term, not mine).

None of these loans would have been necessary had I not been charged these unlawful charges.

 

The managed loan that was later applied to my personal account (managed loan account no. xxxxxxxxx) charges interest at 14.8% APR & I therefore shall require interest applied to the return of these unlawful charges at the same 14.8% APR.

Failure to agree to pay the interest at the same rate that you have applied to me you will be deemed to be unduly enriching the bank which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit.

 

I also demand the return of all 39 payments of £265.33 up today’s date totalling £10,347.87 that I have made against same managed loan account no. xxxxxxxxxxxxx plus interest at same 14.8%APR as applied to me by yourselves.

 

Again by failure to agree to pay the interest at the same rate that you have applied to me you will be deemed to be unduly enriching the bank which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit.

 

I am therefore claiming the total of £25,919.87 plus APR 14.8% compounded interest (which is not negotiable).

 

 

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

I will give you 14 days to reply to me accepting, unconditionally, my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment.

 

If you do not respond, or you do not respond positively, within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect. I believe that these targets are more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments.

 

After that, there will be no further communication from me and I shall issue a claim at the expiry of the second deadline.

 

Yours faithfully,

HSBC Fiddled

[Tigs33]

Just one thing the 39 payments of £265.33 is that just the interest charged on the loan??? or the actual payments you had made, as I would only try and reclaim the loan interest actually paid todate on the loan.

[hsbcfiddled]

ok i can do that because have i do have the monthly interest charges, but i am trying to argue that had all these charges not been applied (because there is another £4800 plus on my personal account) then the managed loan would not have been neccesary????

[Tigs33]

ahhh but the charges you are reclaiming will repay part of the capital on the loan, I believe that the only part you could reasonably argue in court (if it came to it) is the interest on the loan, otherwise the bank would repay the charges twice. Once the charges are refunded you are only out of pocket by the loan interest if it is not repaid.

 

Does that make sense??

[hsbcfiddled]

sorry tigs..no it doesnt.

 

i have had to pay their charges.

in effect they loaned me my own money to pay off overdrafts required because of bank charges.

and i have had to pay their monthly payments whilst interest was added to the balance.

 

AM I still wrong .....Please tell me no?