CAGisforME -V- GE Capital/Link Financial/HL Legal

[CAGisforME]

OK,

 

(Oh, and Happy Easter everyone!)

 

I've checked the murky blurry mess that they claim is a copy of my Agreement.

 

The credit limit - unreadable, too small and blurred.

 

The Interest rate - 37% APR (Oh my GOD!!!)

 

The amount/frequency of repayments - unreadable, too small and blurred.

 

 

So, I've got my FULL SAR letter ready to go and another letter to HL Legal. Please could some kind soul have a gander at these and let me know if they are ok to send?

 

FULL SAR to GE Custom:

 

Please supply me with a complete copy of ALL relevant data on ALL relevant filing systems relating to the account (referenced above) with your organisation.

 

Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my business with you.

 

If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply. Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties against me, then I shall be reclaiming them, and also reclaiming the enclosed £10 DPA subject access request fee.

 

Yours faithfully

 

and my letter to HL Legal.

 

I confirm receipt of your letter dated 4th April, the contents of which are noted.

The copy thus far furnished of the alleged agreement is unreadable and therefore you have not yet complied with your obligation under CCA s77/78 because every copy sent under any section of the CCA must be legible.

 

The time limit for you to produce the information requested is still running.

 

12 working days will elapse on Friday 13th April since you received the CCA request, and should I not receive the information requested IN FULL by that date you will be in default and cannot enforce the alleged agreement until you send me an acceptable (ie Readable) copy of the alleged agreement.

 

In summary, I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THIS DEBT AND THEREFORE REQUIRE YOU TO SUBSTANTIATE YOUR CLAIMS BY PROVIDING THE FOLLOWING DOCUMENTATION BEFORE I CORRESPOND FURTHER :

 

1. True copy of original credit agreement – this needs to be legible

2. Copy of the executed deed of assignment from GE Custom to Link Financial or a Copy of the letter that you state, incorrectly, that they allegedly sent to me confirming the sale of this alleged debt.

 

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

 

Please take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested and that I consider this matter to be “in dispute” and whilst it remains so, no payment will be forthcoming. I hope to hear from you within the statutory time limit, which commenced on the date you received my original letter.

As a courtesy I am also informing you that I have sent a full Subject Access Request to GE Custom, asking for full details of any records kept in regards to this alleged agreement, as is my right under the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

Yours faithfully

 

So, what does everyone think? Are these ok?

 

Presumably once these are sent I just need to sit and wait for the information to arrive?

 

I'll hold off sending them until I've given all you helpful people a chance to give me your thoughts.

 

Thanks

[InKogneeToh]

Hi

 

Personally I wouldn't make any mention of the time limit, how much longer they've got or the consequences of not complying in time. Why help them in any way to understand their own obligations? They should know this and if they don't, what are they doing in the credit industry?

 

Also, they are not legally obliged to send a copy of the Deed of Assignment at all (although they would need to produce this in court if you insisted upon it). What they should have sent (but often don't) is a written notice that the agreement has been assigned, normally in the form of a letter.

 

Regards, Pam

[CAGisforME]

Thanks Pam,

 

I'll take the time limit stuff out then! (You are right, wy given them clues?! LOL)

 

Will this:

2. Copy of the executed deed of assignment from GE Custom to Link Financial or a Copy of the letter that you state, incorrectly, that they allegedly sent to me confirming the sale of this alleged debt.

Cover the bit about the assignment.

 

The major problem is that I didn't know that the debt had been sold on/passed on to another Company. I've had no correspondence from Link, only their "friends" HL Legal, so I don't have any proof that they have a right to chase me for this money.

 

[InKogneeToh]

Hi

 

Yes, the rest of the letter is fine. Have you SAR'd the original creditor yet? If not, do one and request ALL data from ALL relevant filing systems. You should then get info as to who they sold it to and when.

 

Regards, Pam

[CAGisforME]

FULL SAR to GE Custom:

 

Please supply me with a complete copy of ALL relevant data on ALL relevant filing systems relating to the account (referenced above) with your organisation.

 

Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my business with you.

 

If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply. Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties against me, then I shall be reclaiming them, and also reclaiming the enclosed £10 DPA subject access request fee.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Will this do for the Full SAR Pam?

 

Have adjusted the letter to the DCA (HL) and Ill get that away tomorrow, it's ready to go.

 

If the above is ok for the full SAR I will send that tomorrow too.

 

[InKogneeToh]

FULL SAR to GE Custom:

 

 

The Data Controller

Rip-off Bank Ltd

 

SUBJECT ACCESS REQUEST UNDER THE DATA PROTECTION ACT 1998

 

Dear sir/Madam

Please supply me with a complete copy of ALL relevant data, from ALL relevant filing systems held by you, that in any way relates to me as a data subject.

 

[Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my business with you. If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response] I'm not sure why you are including any of this bit - it is intended to find evidence of manual handling of your account and is only really of any relevance if you are intending to reclaim any penalty charges. If you are, then of course leave it it.)

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10 and understand that you have 40 days in which to comply.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

[Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties against me, then I shall be reclaiming them, and also reclaiming the enclosed £10 DPA subject access request fee].I wouldn't put in any of this either - Never show your hand!

 

 

 

Will this do for the Full SAR Pam?

 

Have adjusted the letter to the DCA (HL) and Ill get that away tomorrow, it's ready to go.

 

If the above is ok for the full SAR I will send that tomorrow too.

 

 

Hi

 

Keep it short, simple and professional and never give them any prior knowledge of your intentions. I have re-jigged the letter but it's only a suggestion.

 

Regards, Pam

[CAGisforME]

Story so far:

 

CCA sent to HL Legal - Received by them on 27th March

 

12 Working days therefore up on 13th April - Yesterday.

 

STILL haven't any proof who owns the debt and therefore HL Legal's right to be involved/insist on payment. STILL haven't received a LEGIBLE copy of the Agreement.

 

So presumably they are now in default. Can someone please advise what I should do? Do i just hold tight and wait for them to respond to the letter I sent (above)?

 

SAR sent to Original Creditor (GE Custom) on 9th April. Received by them on 10th. The 40 days are now ticking on that one.......

 

I just wanted to thank those who have helped me, especially Pam. You have given me back control and allowed me to believe that I CAN deal with this, without being coerced by DCAs etc.

 

I'll report back when I have more news.

[Jeff2000]

Story so far:

 

CCA sent to HL Legal - Received by them on 27th March

 

12 Working days therefore up on 13th April - Yesterday.

 

STILL haven't any proof who owns the debt and therefore HL Legal's right to be involved/insist on payment. STILL haven't received a LEGIBLE copy of the Agreement.

 

So presumably they are now in default. Can someone please advise what I should do? Do i just hold tight and wait for them to respond to the letter I sent (above)?

 

SAR sent to Original Creditor (GE Custom) on 9th April. Received by them on 10th. The 40 days are now ticking on that one.......

 

I just wanted to thank those who have helped me, especially Pam. You have given me back control and allowed me to believe that I CAN deal with this, without being coerced by DCAs etc.

 

I'll report back when I have more news.

 

 

Hi there,

 

 

It's up to you what to do next.

 

1) Some write to the company after the 12 days, informing them that they are now in default.

 

2) Some wait until the 12 days plus 1 month, and inform them that they are in default and have committed an offence. Then report to OFT, TS and FOS.

 

3) Some just do nothing, wait to see if the company concerned contacts them again.

 

I prefer option 2, but it's your choice.

 

 

Best wishes, Jeff.

[CAGisforME]

Thanks Jeff

 

I'll give that one some thought. I think it's unlikely that HL legal will just go away (they have been somewhat persistent so far...)

 

Option 2 looks soooooooooooo tempting!

 

[CAGisforME]

Oh dear... I really need some advice now....

 

Many Apologies for what is going to be a very long post!

 

I sent a FULL SAR for FULL details on ALL filing systems to the Original Creditor (GE Custom)

 

I received a Recorded Delivery parcel this morning.

 

GE have sent me:

 

1. A sheet purporting to be a Credit Agreement (All relevant terms, referring to my name address etc) unsigned. (No-where for a signature)

This is entitled "Hire Purchase Agreement Regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974" and has the details of the arrangement on it.

 

This states underneath the title "The agreement between us is made up of this page and the terms and conditions entitled HP1-GETF-0301" THIS IS NO-WHERE in ANY correspondence I've received from the DCA or GE Custom.

 

2. The same illegible page that HL Legal sent me with my signature, a blurry "witness" signature and the signature for G E which has had the date altered. This page is an illegible mess, but also has the same line under the title about the Ts and Cs.

 

3. "standard" letters (no names, addresses or dates) For instance "Dear ##style## Re: Agreement Number ##agreement##

 

4. Default Notice (again no date, no information filled in just "##a05##" etc

 

5. Notice of Termination (as above, no details filled in - proforma letter)

 

6. Charge Statement Showing a charge for "Late Payment" on 16th August 2005, then "Waived" on 11 December 2006.

 

7. Customer Statement - This IS interesting. It is dated yesterday, is unsigned, just like the one HL Legal sent, but whereas the one HL sent finishes on 27th May 2006 with "Litigation" and the sum outstanding, this one ends on 11 December 2006 with "WRITE OFF" and the balance is NIL

 

8. Copies of their attempts to contact me: These are typed notes from GE staff. This shows their first attempt to call me in May 05, then another call in May, End of June they note that I have informed them that I am ill, suffer from stress and that I will treat further calls as harassment, requesting everything in writing. 5 further calls and then a note that I emailed them asking them to stop harassing me and their advice that they will stop ringing when I pay them the arrears!!! 15 further calls. Interesting that they seemed suprised when I hung up on them!

 

 

9. An entry advising "Countrywide" sent for a cash collection. Then an entry stating I wish to Voluntarily Surrender the car! (This is NOT my recollection of events!)

 

10. An entry on 29 April 2006 stating "Default"

 

 

So where do I go from here??????

 

NOTHING about them having sold the debt, or passing it on to another Company.

 

NO default notices etc.

 

Their statement says the amount has been "written off"

 

 

I really could do with some assistance.

 

I don't even think that what they have sent me complies with a FULL SAR - or does it?

 

[Jeff2000]

Hello again,

 

 

If none of your details, account numbers etc, are on these documents, then I personally do not b

 

Unless, of course, that this is all they actually have.

 

Can you scan a copy of the documents so we can take a closer look?

 

Then people will be able to advise accordingly.

 

 

Jeff.

[CAGisforME]

Hello again Jeff and thanks for taking the time to try and help.

 

I'm going to attempt to scan a couple of these documents tomorrow (haven't a clue how to do it, so will let OH try for me!)

 

NONE of the letters/Termination/Default are letters to ME, they are just standard letters with the "mail merge" inserts left in.

 

If it's written off then it's written off surely?

 

Oh I don't know

 

On closer inspection even the covering letter they sent with the blurb isn't signed. i'm thinking someone just printed out everything they had, rather than actually complied with the SAR.

 

[davefirewalker]

Hi

 

if everthing is as you say then you stand a pretty good chance of getting rid of this. But a view of the agreement is usefull.

 

if it says written off, it probaly means that ge have stopped pursuing you and have sold the debt to this dca. its the dca trying to get his money now. he probably paid as little as 10% for it!

 

scan the agreement such as it is and put it on Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket

 

then follow the instructions to paste a forum link.

 

Dave

[CAGisforME]

Dave thanks!

 

I'll get OH to attempt to scan the agreement tomorrow. (Am original techy numpty - haven't a clue!)

 

In the meantime I've been reading some other threads and noticed someone mention a similar situation to me.

 

I have not signed the page that has the APR, credit limit and repayment terms (the first page) how can they show I signed up to those terms? - they cant - surely?

 

The page with this info on is UNSIGNED and refers to Terms and Conditions that I've never seen and they don't seem willing to produce.

 

The page I HAVE signed is illegible. Even the copy the Original Creditor sent me looks like a bad copy of a fax.

 

In any case my understanding of the law is that the key prescribed terms must be on the signature page - and they aren't! Hopefully I am right

 

 

:o Right, promise to stop getting excited about possibly getting rid of this millstone from around my neck, I will concentrate on trying to get this all absolutely right, so that I can kiss it goodbye.

 

:)Thanks for everyone's help so far.

[davefirewalker]

ermmm no

 

the key prescribed terms must be in the signature DOCUMENT which may consist of more than one page.....I have the same problem..

 

obviously the pages must be linked somehow, if they are obviously different you might be able to show an improperly executed agreement. perhaps page numbers ? or a continuation of text.

 

dont build your hopes up yet.. lets see exactly what you have.

 

Dave

[CAGisforME]

Dave - you hit the nail on the head I think!

 

The bit of the supposed CA with all the terms on is a nice neat piece of paper, all neatly typed and looks freshly printed.

 

However the bit with the signatures on looks like a copy of a fax, is totally illegible and blurry. The date of the signature for the GE representative has, however, blatently been altered in some way.

 

I don't remember the first bit being shown to me, or having seen it until I SARd GE and I STILL haven't seen a copy of the Terms and Conditions that both pages pertain to.

 

I know it's hard to explain without the scans, hence I will collar Mr CAG when he is about tomorrow.

 

Everyone's continued help is really appreciated

 

When I came to the CAG I was curious.

Then cross (when I discovered how much I'd paid in charges)

Then scared (when I started the Claim Process)

Now EMPOWERED and STRONG (when I realised I could finally get my life sorted and straight)

THANK YOU CAGers

 

Right, goodnight.

I will catch up in the morning. After the School Run!

[CAGisforME]

Apologies to those waiting to see the supposed "full" SAR

 

Having technical problems.

 

I aim to have the documents scanned and posted up tomorrow.

 

[Jeff2000]

Apologies to those waiting to see the supposed "full" SAR

 

Having technical problems.

 

I aim to have the documents scanned and posted up tomorrow.

 

 

Hi,

 

 

No problem.

 

We are a patient lot!

 

 

Jeff.

[CAGisforME]

I've no doubt you are patient. But I am a complete numpty when it comes to technology.

 

Right, whilst I wait to be able to scan these docs for you good people I decided to check my Credit Reports today.

 

Very weird.

 

Not a mention of GE. Not One. Not one teeny weeny mention ANYWHERE on ANY of them.

 

WTF?

 

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't WANT a default on my CR, obviously. But if, as their Rottweillers (HL) imply I am such a naughty naughty person, wouldn't there be SOMETHING on there? There doesn'e even appear to be a search, never mind a Credit Agreement.

 

Methinks they know they haven't got an enforceable agreement

 

Meanwhile - all quiet on the GE/HL front.

 

NOTHING from HL who have gone remarkably quiet since i told them they had 2 days to get the info to me before they would be in default. They are now CCA + 30 days thus far. Only 12 more days to go until they have committed a criminal act.

 

NOTHING from GE since they sent me the non-complete paperwork, but the handy statement showing the loan as "Written Off".

 

Any thoughts?

 

Off to the hospital (AGAIN) this evening, so may not be about until later.

 

[CAGisforME]

Ant thoughts anyone?

[miss muppet]

Hi Cagis4me, I also had trouble understanding scanning at first but simple really, I have an Epson, put document in face down, turn on obviously, then go to control panel, scanners and cameras, click open and follow instructions thereon, if a complete numpty like me can do it, you can too!

[CAGisforME]

Thanks MM

 

I have a lexmark. I can get it to scan, but then it goes screwy when I try to save the document. Technical help is apparently on the way this weekend!

 

Still mystified about the Credit Report thing. Not a dickie bird about this "loan" on either equifax or experian. DCA silent.