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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

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Mellymum vs HSBC - ****WON!****


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Hiya, its says the following:1. This case is to be listed for hearing on Monday 25 June 2007 at 10.00 am.2. It will be listed with all other oustanding claims for refund of bank charges etc.3. The parties shall file and serve witness statement with copies of all relevant documents annexed by 4.00 pm on 11th June 2007.4. The judge will use his case management powers to decide in each case whether to make any agreed order, give directions for the further conduct of the case, or to proceed there and then with the hearing.5. It is likely that any case seriously contested will be given directions and a later hearing date.6. It is probable that the Judge will deal with cases in batches where there is more than one case against one particular Defendent.7. If a party fails to attend the Judge may strike out the claim or defence as he seems fit and enter judgement accordingly.

Poole CC I presume?

 

The order is saying that it could be the final hearing, or alternatively if its seriously contested it will take the form of a directions hearing. You need to prepare for both and comply with the terms of the order - although its highly unlikely to get as far as court.

 

You need to file a witness statement by the date specified, along with the bundle from the templates library. You'll find a witness statement here -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/82148-got-court-date-important.html#post732096

 

It says its Lloyds specific, but it's also relevant to HSBC claims as they defend upon the same "service, not penalty" basis. Obviously amend to suit and remove any reference to Lloyds.

 

Also have a read of this -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/guidance-notes/64911-got-court-date-guide.html

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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Hiya, its says the following:1. This case is to be listed for hearing on Monday 25 June 2007 at 10.00 am.2. It will be listed with all other oustanding claims for refund of bank charges etc.3. The parties shall file and serve witness statement with copies of all relevant documents annexed by 4.00 pm on 11th June 2007.4. The judge will use his case management powers to decide in each case whether to make any agreed order, give directions for the further conduct of the case, or to proceed there and then with the hearing.5. It is likely that any case seriously contested will be given directions and a later hearing date.6. It is probable that the Judge will deal with cases in batches where there is more than one case against one particular Defendent.7. If a party fails to attend the Judge may strike out the claim or defence as he seems fit and enter judgement accordingly.

 

DG will go nowhere near that court room I guarantee it.

pete

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Thank you all for your help, I really wouldnt know what to do without the advice here!Going to start collating all the information together so Im prepared. Sometimes part of me thinks, its getting harder now - will they start winning, will I have to pay all their sol fees etc...

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Hiya melly, even if you were the first one to loose costs don’t get awarded in the small claims court, everyone is responsible for their own costs so all you would loose is what HSBC have already taken from your account and your claiming back.

pete

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Yes, I agree with Lattie - don't start yet, you've got ages till the documents have to be submitted, by which time its almost certain that they will have made an offer. The HSBC regulars will be able to tell you for sure, but I'm not personally aware of any HSBC claim which has got to the stage of complying with directions.

 

Of course if it does get to around the mid-May and no settlement then you'll need to think about starting it then.

 

Was it Poole by the way, just out of interest?

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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"Was it Poole by the way, just out of interest?"

 

garyh, are you asking if it was poole because of the 'new' branch they've opened there for the 'rich and solvent - not paupers?' lol

bet they don't get many claimants in poole eh?

If i've been helpful in any way....then tip my scales over there!

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No, I didn't know about that actually - whats that all about then?

 

I've seen this order quite a few times, usually coming from Poole, which is why I asked.

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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Hiya, preparing my court bundle as per your link, just wondered, would I be using Statement of Evidence 1 for HSBC, I think I have it right, but I dont want to get that wrong at this stage!

 

Also, which part of the Lincoln 'Abuse' Thread do I copy, is it just the first post off the link? Is this twoa above part of what I have to submit for the 11th? Let me get it right, altogether, I need to have for 11th (Court Date 25th June):

 

The Full OFT Report -

The Macnamara Interview -

Corrsepondance and Documents relating -

Witness Statement -

Draft Orders and Reasons for why and example (or do I not need this as the Court has alreadu issued orders??) -

Statement of Evidence -

Lincoln 'Abuse' Order -

List of Settled Cases -

 

Hopefully shouldnt have to bother you with my silly questions after this is sorted! Sorry :-|

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I was just going to save it all on my computer for now and print it off much nearer the time, the artcile is inspiring though! I just know my luck it will take until the court date until I get an offer. Thanks. - Jodie

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  • 3 weeks later...

My claims go back as far as 2002, the account was opened back in 2001 (I think!) I havent kept any of my original documents. Am I in my right to ask my branch for copies of the original contract I signed?? Is it in any Freedom Of Information Act or Data Protection Act?

 

Just starting to think this would be a really good thing to have in my court bundle, and probably help a lot of other people too.

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Hiya, referring to post #35, wasnt really answered but is this a list of what I need? Im only preparing it on screen, will print nearer the time.Told you all I'd be posting silly questions again! Im panicing now cos I cant find my original T&C, I know they gave me a silly black folder when I signed with them, god knows where it is, Ive moved 4 times since then!!!

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Thats an excellent point. Its also the only way forward people, this site is excellent but I think yesterday was a reminder that we all need to think and act for ourselves, and that includes me because I was sorely tempted to rely 100% on the letters and arguments provided for us until now. (That might seem a bit philosophical for this time of night but I have been drinking.)

I'm pretty certain I have T+Cs from 1999/2000 (I wonder how often they were updated - my credit card ones seem to change daily!) but of course it is the fees bit thats of importance here. And I think HSBC changed their overdraft policy very recently in a move that seems now to be an attempt to make it, and any fees surrounding it, all part of the 'SERVICE'.

People out there will have older T+Cs so I think we should all help each other out, PDF them and make them as acessible as the templates.

Goodnight, and good luck with your claims!

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crusher and others are trying to put together a refence library i guess you'd call it - for peeps to use - so everyone is looking for them - they will probably have every possible one by the time you need it.

 

 

here's my list of the court stuff - and the links may tell you what you want to know...

a) your schedule of charges.

b) your statements showing the charges. Alternatively, the list of charges which the bank provided under your S.A.R (subject Access Request) (only send the statements with charges on them.)

c) A Statement of Evidence: (post 55 in the new strategy): New strategy for Allocation Questionaires

d) All the statutes and decided cases on which your claim relies. ie, UTCCR's, UCTA's, SOGA, case law, etc. For this, I'd just submit the whole of the Basic Court Bundle.

This whole thing runs to around 200 pages and should be done in triplicate: one copy for you, one for the court and one for dg – that’s 600 pages of copying – LEAVE IT UNTIL YOU KNOW FOR SURE YOU NEED IT. If an offer comes in from DG and is accepted you wouldn’t need it.

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Hiya, Ive been through these links from further up the page, its where I got my list from in the first place.Hopefully I should have everything there, I need to start going through it all on screen ammending it for my own case.... pre-warned work I may (hopefully not) need to take the 25th June off work!

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