Koala Attack Vs Barclays

[dar£n]

Re post #65, if you havent already got the info...

 

First televised on 21/03/07

 

Reporter: Amanda Egbujo

[Guest baznew1]

Thanks for the advise KK.

I just got in from work and have a letter from Barclays with a new Terms AND Conditions Booklet.

Which come into effect on 14th May 2007.

From looking through it briefly, it looks as though they are trying to push being allowed to charge for o/drafts and such. at their discretion.

Some statements:

"We may also upgrade your account or enhance the services we provide to you where you will incur no extra cost and we consider this is to your advantage."

 

Looks like their lawyers have been at work here.

The item reference for this change is :BAR69811BROB1

 

Just a heads up.

I'm getting my letters out today and hope to beat the deadline of May 14th just in case.

[Bookworm]

Bookworm - as ever the voice of reason.

 

p.s.

 

Whats FNMF?

 

Thank you.

 

FNMF = First National Motor Finance, in their heyday, held over 60% of the car finance market, now "dormant", sold to Abbey in 200...3, if memory serves.

 

Apologies for brief hijack, KA!

[koalaattack]

No worries Bookworm!

 

baz - I think that may well be the standard response, mind you, I haven't had it yet; I wonder if they're going to say they lost my documents?! I've checked with the Royal Mail website and my letter was delivered as promised so they've had it. Where does that leave me just out of interest? If I have the proof that it was delivered is it just tough on them? Anyone know?!

 

Also baz, no offence mate but it's KA - KK is a little too close to a bunch of idiots for my liking!

 

Cheers,

 

KA

[Guest baznew1]

LOL Sorry KA. I am living in America after all.

 

If you have proof that they received and signed for your letter I believe you are in the best position.

 

Ive read it on this site somewhere, perhaps someone else can tell you. But you could always send a copy of the letter they received, with dates etc. when you request payment . Not sure if that would fly, but you've done your bit. Its up to them if they lose stuff.

Its a paper trail for court if you ever get there Fnaar Fnaar

Baz

[koalaattack]

Well, well...

 

Almost in the words of either NWA or Public Emeny (I think NWA but can't really remember)(Public Enemy, I checked):

 

"I got a letter from the government (well Barclays anyway) the other day, opened it and read it it said they were suckers!"

 

Barclays sent me a response this morning, what a load of old tosh! New one to me though as it makes no mention of fees or a handy booklet explaining what I signed up for which is what I thought I was going to get.

 

Anyway, here it is...

 

"Dear KA,

 

We are sorry you have had to contact us about the level of service you have received from Barclays... ...blah, blah, blah... ...looking into your concerns, will get back to you by no later than 25th April (day after my N1 goes to court)... ...blah, blah, blah... ...telephone number to discuss any issues... ...blah, blah, blah... ...I have enclosed a leaflet explaining how Barclays works to resolve complaints. I hope you find this useful."

 

The most interesting bit, apart from not even acknowledging the charges claim, was this

 

"Thank you for bringing this to our attention."

 

Now I know this is a stock response but surely I'm not the only one to have brought this to their attention am I?!

 

Just printed my LBA and cliams sheet (again) so will stick it in the post, recorded delivery on Saturday so that it is there for them on Tuesday.

 

Have a great Easter/weekend everyone,

 

KA.

[dar£n]

As you are already aware std B's reply mate, carry on regardless..

[koalaattack]

Hi guys,

 

Just back after Easter break and have been catching up on a few things - nice to see so many new threads and claims started, together with a few that have finally won; congatulations if you're one of these!

 

Barclays received my LBA on Tuesday (10th April - I have just check via Royal Mail and it was delivered) so I guess I just sit back and wait. I'm going to get my N1 filled in over the next week so that I can deliver it on 24th April. Can I just confirm with this that I only fill out one of these which I then deliver to court and they inform Barclays right? I know I keep a copy too but I don't need to send one to Barclays as well do I?

 

I'm also going to start getting my court bundle together - again, am I right in thinking that this is just three copies of the information I have found here together with all correspondence from me to Barclays and vice versa? Is there anything else I need to put in here?

 

Hope you're all well,

 

Cheers,

 

KA

[koalaattack]

Dammit! I just spoke to my local court (filling in my N1) and they told me that the claim is based on the full amount including the s69 8% interest up to the date that I file.

 

Basically what this means is that my claim is over £5k which brings up two issues - 1) I have to pay £250 not £120 which is a pain and 2) it probably won't be dealt with in the small claims court. The lady did say that the judge would decided on the day whether I was accountable for any costs should I lose, but I'm worried now as I could end up losing a lot!

 

Let's just hope I don't lose now eh?!

 

Cheers,

 

KA

[dar£n]

first of all, the judge may decide to keep it in the small claims track, it has been done before.

 

also, yeh it costs more to file, but hey, you get it back at the end.

 

why do you think you are gonna be stung for charges?

 

You are going to WIN, dyu hear? WIN WIN WIN

 

all costs will be paid by them.

 

come on stop feelin sorry for yourself and get motivated, stay positive.

[koalaattack]

Cheers dar3n,

 

It's never easy when you're told you will have to pay this much and then, in the worst case, you will have to pay 'x' in costs too - I guess hearing that from a court representative is the issue!

 

I was never going to give this up, but sometimes you sway a bit don't you?!

 

Anyway, just out of interest, has anyone heard of anyone having to actually go to court over this? Have Barclays (or any other bank) ever challenged the claim in court recently? I'm guessing no as that would have surely set a precident right? Also, if they had and they defended successfully then that would mean that they would always defend right?

 

As of today, Barclays have 10 working days to settle in full - my N1 is done, just being checked to make sure that I haven't screwed it up. I do have a couple of questions here actually that someone may be able to help me with (Harvest, if you read this it's not because I don't trust you I just figured someone may be able to save us some time!).

 

Ok, my questions...

 

1) reagarding the interest under s69 county courts act 1984; how the hell do I work this out? I have used their calculation and come up with a figure of 1.32 on the calculator - is this 1.32p or £1.32?! Sorry to sound so dumb but I really want to get this right. Also, does this get added onto my claim from the date of the first claim?!

 

2) when I use the s69 8% interest tab on the spreadsheet it gives me a £0.57 daily rate, so which is right? Is there a simple way to say this is how much the 8% is so this is how much I am claiming?

 

3) in the details of claim on page two, it says "sum of £ and any interest charged thereon" - in this do I put a) total charges; b) total interest on penalties (from top of interest and charges tab) or c) the whole amount of claim from the c. interest (daily) tab?!

 

Cheers,

 

KA

UPDATE! I think I have all of the answers for the above so don't worry about answering if you were going to. Thanks if you were though, I really appreciate it. KA.

[koalaattack]

Hello,

 

Just found this which I think may be of interest:

 

NatWest in court over bank charges - Yahoo! News UK

 

I know it's not B'clays but it will be of interest to all banks. Seems like Natwest may turn up to defend against the "damages" claim which would be interesting.

 

Cheers,

 

KA

[dar£n]

PURE GOLD!!!!!

[kippy2]

the case has been adjourned

[koalaattack]

Really? So they turned up then? Or did the judge adjourn it because they didn't turn up?

 

Kimmy - do you have any more details? Is it certain that he is just claiming for damages and not the whole bank charges too? I think I read somewhere that they had repayed the charges but he wasn't happy at that so wanted to go for the lot, I could be wrong though!

 

Cheers,

 

KA

[kippy2]

hi just looking to see if i can find a link for me to post. its fresh on the site today. the judge adjourned it

 

here it is

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-charges-print/81879-toms-case-adjourned.html

[koalaattack]

Here's some more info that I found:

 

Customer takes NatWest to court over bank charges | News_ | Guardian Unlimited Money

 

Cheers,

 

KA

 

Oops! Sorry Kimmy, thanks for that.

 

Ok, so basically he asked for his charges back plus damages, bank said no, he said yes, they said no again but then gave him £4k which he didn't want as they weren't admiting any wrong doing, they still didn't admit this so he went to court. Court wanted more time so they've adjourned it which is a shame as we won't know the outcome very quickly but good because at least it shows that the judge is taking him seriously even if Natwest weren't.

 

Good on him!

 

So if they rule in favour of him, how many of us are going to go for charges, composite interest and damages?! I've never come close to having anything truely awful happen because of the charges (thankfully) but I've often lost sleep over it all and I for one can't put a price on a good nights kip, may be I should claim for that?!

 

Sorry, that's not meant to make a joke out of some of the bad things that have happened to people because of their charges, it's just that a ruling in his favour really could stir up those sort of questions.

 

Surely the fact that he asked for £2.5k and they gave him £4k would indicate some form of liability on the banks side? It's almost like they tried to buy his silence. Tut, tut Natwest!

[chorlton1]

Here is is in case you dont find it on my thread....

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/53570-new-strategy-allocation-questionnaires-3.html

[koalaattack]

Thanks chorlton!

 

Sorry, have I been really blind here and missed something really obvious? I checked through all of the templates, and through your thread and couldn't see anything like that. Sorry for being lame, thanks for your help.

 

Enjoy your money!

 

Cheers,

 

KA

 

PS I've been thinking - does the AQ come as a paper copy or can you get it electronically so that you can fill it in on a computer? I don't really fancy copying out everything by hand - I mean I will for £6k, I just don't fancy it!

[koalaattack]

Hi guys,

 

Just a quick update - Barclays had until today to respond to my LBA. I left for work before the postman came so I'll have to wait and see whether they sent anything. I have a funny feeling there may well be a letter drop through my door tomorrow morning as that would mean they sent it today (the 28th day since my claim was received). Still, I do know that it won't be for the full amount.

 

I'm off to court tomorrow with my N1 and £250 (over £5,000 claimed so it costs that little bit extra) unless something remarkable happens!

 

Can I just run my N1 passed any of you who've done this successfully please? Cheers...

 

Brief details of claim

 

The Claimant has an account NUMBER with the Defendant, opened in DATE. Since 27/07/01 the Defendant debited charges and interest in respect of purported breaches of contract. The Defendant is aware of all details as a list of charges has already been supplied. Another copy will be sent. The claimant contends that the charges exceed the Defendant's losses caused by the breaches; and the Term permitting the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999, Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and at Common Law.

 

Value

 

Charges £X

Overdraft Interest £Y

Interest under s.69 County Courts Act 1984 £0

Court Fee £250

TOTAL £(X+Y)+250

 

I have left the s.69 interest as £0 as I am not claiming at that rate right? This is explained later...

Particulars of Claim (attached)(to follow)

 

1. The Claimant has an account NUMBER ("the Account") with the Defendant which was opened on or around DATE.

2. During the period in which the Account has been operating the Defendant debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant and also charged interest on the charges once applied. The Claimant understands that the Defendant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the Claimant.

3. A list of the charges applied is attached to these particulars of claim.

4. The Claimant contends that:

a) The charges debited to the Account are punitive in nature; are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred by the Defendant; exceed any alleged actual loss to the Defendant in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant; and are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the Defendant which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit.

b) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999), the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and the common law.

5. Accordingly the Claimant claims:

a) the return of the amounts debited in respect of charges in the sum of £X and penalty interest charged thereon in the sum of £Y;

b) Court costs; £250

c) the additional costs incurred by the Claimant in the writing and sending of letters to the Defendant pursuant to this claim in the sum of £12.50, as set out in the attached list of costs.

d) the Claimant claims contractual interest at a rate of 27.50% per annum, from the date of each transaction to 25th April 2007, as set out in the attached list of charges. The Claimant further claims interest, on the resulting total of £Z, at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment, at a daily rate of £1.74 per day.

The account’s Terms and Conditions specify the interest payable on unauthorised drawings from the account. The Claimant holds that this applies to unauthorised drawings by the Defendant as well as to unauthorised drawings by the Claimant. Should the court deem this incorrect, the Claimant claims the rate to be justified under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity, and is based on the Defendant’s unauthorised overdraft interest rate that would be applied under the terms of the above mentioned account.

Should the court find that this interest rate is not applicable, then in the alternative the Claimant claims interest under Section 69 of the County Court Act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum calculated from 27th July 2001 to 25th April 2007.

6. Alternatively, if the charges are a fee for a service, then they must be reasonable under S.15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act (1982).

 

 

And that's it. Does that look ok? Sorry to post such a lot of stuff but I'm nearly there and I don't want to much anything up now!

 

Also, I take three copies of this and my spreadsheets with me right? 1 for me, one for court and one for the court to send to Barclays?

 

Cheers,

 

KA

[Micky the Hippo]

another full on CI claim, outstanding

 

B have just settled on Lovejoy's thread for CI at the unauthorised rate, sub £1k though, he had to issue a warrant

 

your's is a biggie, bigger than mine, watching with interest

 

good man

 

why not stick in a second variance of their authorised rate?

 

I'll let someone more experienced tackle your questions

[koalaattack]

Cheers Mick,

 

I've had a look at Lovejoys' thread (as much as that name pains me given the game tomorrow night!) and it does seem like Barclays are the single most awkard bunch of people on the planet!

 

As for the second rate, I did think about that. Actually, I didn't think about it at all! Harvest (of Harvest vs First Direct fame) is helping me and he suggested it. Then we read through it all and figured that it's up to the judge to decide - if he doesn't go for my rate then the 8% is fine by me! Also, I have a funny feeling the judge will never have to think about this as Barclays won't let it get that far. I hope!

 

Cheers,

 

KA.

[Micky the Hippo]

The Lovejoy doesn't go away to CFC games Lovejoy? idiot

 

Everything I've seen says give the second rate too, nothing to lose and perhaps something to gain, keeps pressure on the bank surely

 

and yeah to the judge but train hard, it's a biggish claim ...

 

very much rooting for your claim, I'm a week behind you with a smaller but still substantial claim

[koalaattack]

I'm assuming you mean the TV Lovejoy is an idiot rather than Lovejoy on here or me?!

 

I might well add the second rate, it all depends on whether I can get my head around it and sort the maths - or does it just need a statement, and what is the rate that I quote anyway?

 

Cheers for the advice about training hard, you're right - I've always looked at this with the knowledge that I will go to court so I will get everything sorted; started my AQ already as that's next! And cheers for rooting for it - I'd love everyone to do this and win, it would make very little difference to the banks profit but imagine how good everyone would feel! I'm going on a time table of around 5 months which would mean end of June, just in time for my holiday!

 

Your use of "biggish claim" worries me though, I thought mine was pretty standard!

 

Cheers,

 

KA

[koalaattack]

Hi guys,

 

Nothing from Barclays last night - nice that they even bothered to acknowledge my claim!

 

Took three copies of the N1 in today, along with the extra particulars of claim and my two spreadsheets, it cost me £250 but it'll be worth it - I hope!

 

The lady was very helpful but laughed and said "bank charges?!" as I approached - they've had a few apparently! I'm off home at lunch to see if Barclays did send something yesterday - ie last minute - but either way it's too late now. The lady at the court did give me some very good advice, she said that you need to keep EVERYTHING the court sends you (and I would suggest everything to do with your claim) for ever basically, even when it's settled.

 

Anyway, I'm now taking my bank to court - go me!

 

Cheers,

 

KA.