GE Money Mortgage Repossession

[magictorch1976]

Hi All

 

Please see below, I have posted this on usenet but thought I would try here.

 

The post gives all the details but someone has suggested to me that the 6000 quid penalty for early settlement should not apply if they are repossessing the property ? Thoughts welcome and thank you !

 

Jamie

 

Hi

Please can you advise me on the following.

On Wednesday, a district judge granted a possession order over my

property for an outstanding mortgage of £120,000. I have 34 days to

leave.

There are 4 months arrears owing to the first charge lender. (GE Money

Home Lending.) The settlement figure includes the arrears and an early

settlement penalty of £6000.

The property has a second charge secured on it in favour of a further

lender (Progressive Finance.) where the outstanding balance is around

£12,000. The payment history has been perfect and is up to date.

I have sold the property for £121,000 and am close to exchange of

contracts. GE have agreed to cease action once exchange has occurred.

The sale will cover the first charge mortgage - just !

I am not buying another property but moving into my mates for a bit to

sort myself out.

What I am after is how to I get Progressive to remove the second

charge and not pay off the loan ? I had a conversation with their

local office, where I got a YTS Scheme drop-out who told me that all I

needed to do was to get a Deed of Postponement and they would lift the

charge. It turns out he never had the authority to tell me that and

the branch manager has advised that my solicitor needs to write to

them explaining why they want a deed of postponement.

My solicitor tells me today that a Deed of Postponement only applies

if I am buying somewhere else, as it is designed to transfer the

charge to another property !

My thoughts are:

1. If Progressive don't lift the charge and convert it into an

unsecured loan then they will not benefit as there will no longer be a

property to charge - i.e. the ownership will pass to GE and they will

sell it to reclaim their money and I would carry on paying Progressive

anyway.

2. GE are obviously wanting me to sell the property because they will

get all their loan back otherwise they will sell it at below market

value and have to wait for me to pay back the shortfall.

How do I convince Progressive that it's in their best interests too ?

I don't want to exchange until I am sure that the 2nd charge will be

removed on completion otherwise I will be stuck compensating that

other side and I have been trying to sell for 18 months in order to

relieve myself from the debt trap after unexpected redundancy.

Thanks for the advice in advance.

Kind Regards

Jamie

PS Have tried to re-finance the loan to progressive - I am not getting

anywhere fast with that one due to credit history.

[magictorch1976]

Sorry, meant to say hello everyone and I am pleased to be part of this group - I have successfully claimed back charges from First Direct but not Nationwide or CitiCard as of yet - still working on that.

 

Kinda launched into it all with my last post - I would gratefully receive any advice. This is a very stressful time.

 

Kind Regards

 

Jamie

[mochamoo]

bump

[magictorch1976]

eh ?

[mochamoo]

Sorry, Bring Up My Post, I wasn't sure so I bump'ed your thread to the top of the pile again! more chance of it being seen!

[Bona]

I'm not sure what to say as far as we were concerned we negotiated the second charge but they can stop the sale What are your prospects have you got a job could you not sell and take in lodgers to try to get back on track if the sale falls through no judge will alow them to take your house away if you can sort out re payment can you let your house to cover the mortgage and 2nd charge that would be better than it being repossessed

 

will try and help further if I can can you give us some more info

 

Bona

[magictorch1976]

Thanks Mochmoo for explaining ! I thought "bump" meant I had no chance in hell LOL !

 

Bona - thanks for the reply. To be honest, I just want out. I have been trying to hold onto the house for 3 years since I was made redundant and I have no fight left. It's time to give up and make a fresh start.

 

I made a propasal to Progressive - that they should release the charge and sent them a debt management plan showing how I intend to clear all my unsecured debt over 5 months whilst still maintaining payments on their loan. It looks OK in my opinion but "Simone" at Progressive hasn't got back to me yet. Why do these people have no sense of urgency ?! Once I have cleared all my debt, the only credit I will have is with them and I am hoping that mainitaining that loan will help repair my already shot-to-hell credit rating. The alternative that I have offered Progressive is that I will declare myself bankrupt, which means that they will most likely get nothing at all from me ever again, as GE have already told me that they will go for all the balance of their loan when the house is sold, basically telling Progressive where to stick it. I am hoping that Progressive will see the logic behind what I propose but at the same time, they only have my word for it.

 

Thing is, I really want this to work out. I owe the money, I have no problem with that, I want to pay it all !!

 

The hearing was a disaster in my opinion.

 

The solicitor representing GE Money was given the case notes by another solicitor 5 minutes before the hearing. He hadn't read them, had no background on the case. He wasnt aware of the second charge and his defence to the judge was that because I had so little equity in the property, the risk to GE was too great anyway and that the judge should grant possession.

 

The judge had, she told me "had a quick glance through my defence," which to me means that the whole 3 pages I had written were a pointless waste of time. She kept cutting into me when I was speaking and was well and truly on the side of GE Money regardless. I felt really peeved as I hadnt had a true chance. I understand now, despite doing my research beforehand that the arrears could have been cleared over the life of the loan if necessary ! It's "only" £2800. I am not being blase but it's not a huge sum of money.

 

What so unfair is I have a buyer. I will be gutted if they dont get the house as they really want it. On another note, can I ask GE to sell them the house once they have taken possession ?

 

I dont know what to do. I have left a message for the national insolvency helpline but there are so many people using it, it could be days before they come back to me. Can I propse an IVA with Progressive (secured,)and my other unsecured creditors ? I guess that means they would have to lift the charge anyway.

 

This is such a nightmare. Please - any advice welcome.

 

I think this is a great site and I am grateful for any advice anyone can offer - I really think it's nice how people who don't even know each other take the time out to impart their knowledge and help out. So thank you.

 

Best regards

 

Jamie

[mochamoo]

I know just the CAG user for you.... lets see if I can locate him for you

[magictorch1976]

I would really appreciate it. Thank you. You are just a star !!

[Bona]

My Advice is think before you act I know you want ou but satying in if you can manage it for a short time may be better than going bankrupt and having all this debt At you repossession hearing if you have no get up and fight they are not interested you can possible retrive the situation if you want are you working thats the first thing take it step by step and look at all options I can feel for you we have been their but you need to do what is best for you in the long run take a long walk and try and think things through there are a lot of people here to give support

[Esio Trot]

Hi Jamie,

 

I have dealt with quite a few repossession cases over recent times. Some have worked out very well for the owners, others not - mostly due to the evil Early Redemption Charge (ERC) which most lenders will not negotiate on and partly due to penalty "Administration" fees (which can be fought and refunded, but not usually until the mortgage is up-to-date or redeemed).

 

For clearer guidance, dates and amounts (broken down into arrears, ERC, capital etc) relating to both secured loans are needed. Also, a total figure for your unsecured debt. Also, an indication of your current income and expenditure.

If the house is eventually repossessed

My advice is to seriously consider filing for your own bankruptcy. It will cost you around £400 to do this, but means that you can control events more than if it is imposed on you. The upside is that you will be discharged from your liabilities (debts) after a year so can start again; the downside is that your credit record will be shot to pieces, more than now, for some years to come.

 

Action before repossession

Firstly, you must avoid telephoning these loan companies - it creates no record other than the notes the operator puts on your file at the time (the wording of which you won't know unless you do a Subject Access Request under the data protection act).

 

Secondly - and this is the most important thing - decide what you want to do. You say you just want out as this has been going on for 3 years and you have no fight left. If this is so, then why post? If just your feelings at the time, then okay. To fight, you will need to spend time doing a lot of thinking and letter writing if you want a good result on this.

 

My Assessment

You currently owe more in secured loans than the value of the property (at least while the ERC is extant - what date are you tied in with this?). Thus, selling the property will be very difficult to achieve unless you can cover the redemption figures of both charges.

 

You have an order for possession against you. I calculate this is dated for 24 April. After this date the mortgage company can then apply to the court (another fee added to your account!) to enforce the order (Bailiffs Warrant). This will take at least another six weeks, probably much longer with current court workloads, so you have at least until early June as a window to work in.

 

GE will not negotiate on figures at all, especially the ERC, as they are in a position of control and power. You can only use case law and procedure against them.

 

Progressive have no reason to lift their charge. If it is eventually repossessed, they will get nothing. Same if you are bankrupt. In the meantime, they might get something so why should they weaken their position.

 

If the property is repossessed, then the ERC won't be levied. HOWEVER, at least as much will over time be added to your account for their "administration" of managing the possessed property until it is sold. If almost goes without saying that if the property is repossessed, you will lose out.

 

Initial Recommendation

Bear in mind that I don't know how long you are tied it with the ERC, your best option will be to fight the possession and keep the property until the ERC will no longer be levied.

 

The above is written with the caveat of not knowing if you can meet the normal repayments of both loans. So an indication of your income and expenditure will be needed.

[magictorch1976]

Debt as of 23/3/07

Atlantic Electric 815

Atlantic Gas 762

O2 611

Orange 160

Logbook Loans 1057

 

Total Unsecured Debt 3405

 

Income1450

 

 

Current Outgoings

Mortgage 577.13

Welcome 234

Council Tax 96

Gas 80

Water 32

Electricity 35

Telewest 80

Logbook Loans186

O2 0

Orange 40

 

Total 1360.13

 

 

New Outgoings for 5 months - If House sold - this means i can enter debt reduction plan

 

Welcome 234

Housekeeping 100

 

Total 334

 

 

Mortgage Arrears £2,800

Secured Loan Arrears £0.00

Mortage Outstanding (inc arrears) £120,972.00

Secured Loan Outstanding £12,600.00

ERC (inc. in outstanding Mortgage value)£6,792

House Value £124,000

Sale Price £121,000

LETTER FAXED TO PROGRESSIVE FINANCE LAST FRIDAY - NO RESPONSE YET !!

Dear X

Secured Loan on the above property.

Further to my recent fax and telephone conversation with yourself regarding the removal of the charge on the above property, I have been advised by my conveyancer that they are not able to deal with you because of the fact that a deed of postponement does not apply in the this situation as I am not buying another property, which I did make clear to X upon my initial telephone call.

The property has been up for sale since December and I am currently 4 months in arrears with my mortgage payments to the first charge lender – GE Money Home Lending.

GE Money were granted a 35 day possession order at Birmingham County Court on Wednesday 21st March 2007.

The outstanding balance on the first charge mortgage is £120,972. I am close to exchange of contracts to a first time-buyer who has their mortgage fully agreed.

The property sale price has been agreed at £121,000, which is just enough to cover the first charge-mortgage. This really was the best price I could get – the house was valued at £124,950 by the estate agents.

In order to expedite the sale, I would be grateful if you would review the following notes, including a debt management plan that I have worked out and give your agreement to remove the charge from the property to allow the sale to proceed.

I have maintained an excellent payment relationship with you, in times of financial hardship and as you will see from my debt management plan, I fully intend to keep up with the repayments to you.

I am moving in with my partner who owns their own property on a temporary basis whilst I go through this debt management plan. They are in stable full-time employment, as am I now and the risk to Welcome Financial Services is very low. If it would assist, I am willing to purchase a sickness/accident and redundancy policy to give extra assurance in the event of any unforeseen happenings although I believe I have these with the loan already.

I appreciate that you only have my word that this is the best option.

In the event that the charge cannot be removed and the sale allowed to proceed then GE Money Home Lending will take possession of the property on or about the 26th April 2007. Due to the outstanding mortgage balance and the value of the house, GE Money’s interest will take precedence and once and if they sell the property, there will be NO EQUITY with which to pay Welcome’s share of the loan. If you remove the charge, the sale will allow me to realise GE’s interest in the property, (i.e. the first charge mortgage will be paid off and my obligations to you will continue as they do now, (i.e. I will continue to pay the remaining term of the loan until the balance is cleared and as was suggested by Lorian.) GE have already stated in court that they will not consider Welcome’s position and will reclaim their outstanding monies in full.

Should Welcome Financial Services choose not to remove the charge, I will be unable to sell the property. My unsecured debts together with the fact that I will have to continue paying two loans until the property is sold by the first charge lender, (even though I will no longer own it,) will unfortunately see me having to file for bankruptcy. This will discharge my debts in full and my obligations to you for the outstanding balance will cease and you will not be able to take action against me for the outstanding amount and will have to write this off.

Obviously, I do not want this to occur as I feel by maintaining the loan with you will assist the repair of my credit rating over the coming years. It also means that I will be able to meet my obligations under the agreement and bankruptcy is a serious move to have to make. I also believe that I should honour my side of our agreement but I have been in financial difficulty for so long now that I am at the end of my tether with regards to not having a life and I am desperate to get back on track and be able to spend some of the money I earn on me for a change.

I can provide a written statement from my employer advising of my current annual salary, which is £24,000 per year and that I am a full time permanent employee of the company.

I would appreciate it if you could give this matter your utmost and urgent attention and then contact me on to discuss this further.

Yours sincerely

[Esio Trot]

That's a pretty good letter sent to Progressive (Welcome). If it comes up trumps, you are home and dry. Their action is key, because if they do not negotiate your sale will not go ahead.

 

One more carrot for them, which you might be able to bring into the ring is offering your lass (if she is agreeable) as guarantor (I think you said she is a home owner). This will give them that bit more security.

 

There are a couple of small points that are relevant to you personally, and I'll pm you on these, but maybe not till the weekend.

 

Lastly, I don't think you have said anywhere so far on how long you are tied into the ERC.

[Bona]

What would you get if you let your house would it cover the mortgage and perhaps a bit more where are based if you could rent a room or even the house then perhaps you would be better off its worth looking into no need to do it but see what aletting agency says you would then have another option.

[magictorch1976]

Please help. What can I do about this nightmare ?

Mortgage Arrears - £3170.

Possession Deadline - Tomorrow (Wednesday 2nd May)

House sale price - £121,000

Sale agreed - £121,000. Contracts ready to exchange.

Solicitor costs - £800

Agency Sales Fees - £3173

ERC - £7000

 

Fighting with GE Money Home Lending over ERC. I want £4000 off it. They are refusing or being pedantic. They want £140 to value the property. They want EVERYTHING and my disposable income is currently £5.84 per month until I sell. The sale has taken 5 months to get to this stage. Really at my wits end. I am so close yet their pig-head greediness is shattering my life. I have no problem paying what I owe them. I just want them to have a bit of a heart and see what they are doing is wrong.

I just want to exchange, get out of my house, move in with my other half and be happy again. I cant remember the last time money was not an issue.

 

2nd charge lender - Welcome Finance have REMOVED the charge from my property to get me out of negative equity and allow me to sell and turned it into an unsecured loan. Same monthly payments, same terms. These people are stars.

 

Please please help.

[PaulW922]

Hi Magic - welcome to the GE Money nightmare. When this is all over you can join my mass march on their offices in Watford. If it seems to you that GE are deliberately being as nasty and in-human as possible then it isn't your imagination - they are. This company goes out of its way to ruin your life - they seem to enjoy it.

 

I take it that you have a re-possession order and it takes effect tomorrow? If that is the case all I can think of it to go to the court today and ask lodge an application to have the order either stayed or set aside on the grounds that you have a buyer and are ready to exchange? If you go to the FSA web site you'll find that the guidance says your lender should take all steps to allow you to sell your house rather than re-possess it.

[magictorch1976]

Sorry about the rant. I was just fuming !

Thanks. I will quite happily join you in your mass march. This company should be hauled over the coals. I gather I am not the first to experience their total lack of empathy, customer care or excessive waiting times on hold to their pathetic departments that make you feel like sh*t on their shoes. I have no issues with the fact I am in arrears. I didn't "choose" not to pay my mortgage. My circumstances changed, as do many people's and I took steps to get out of the mortgage immediately, i.e. by selling my house. All they can say is "well, if you had kept up the payments you wouldn't be in this situation."

 

The resposession hearing was a joke. Their solicitor hadnt even read my defence. The judge was a cow. She took the side of GE immediately and talked over me and cut me short. I was so angry afterwards.

The possession order took effect last Wednesday (25th April,) but they granted a stay of a further week, (tomorrow.) Big deal. I have reduced my arrears yesterday by £650 but they are piling charges on and legal costs as always. They have now taken 7 weeks to send the deeds and my solicitor still doesn't have them. That's a total joke as well. They were originally requested on the 14th March and followed up with 4 faxes and 4 letters. Each time, all they sent was a redemption statement. When I called to find out what was going on, they said that their policy was not to release the deeds until completion and they would only provide copies upon receipt of a cheque of £47 ! I went mad and moaned that it would have been NICE for someone at GE to pick up the phone to me or my solicitor and advise us !!

Last week, I put proposals to them to reduce the ERC. This is because there is a shortfall of nearly £4000 which doesn't actually affect them because they will get all their money. It's agency fees and sale costs. I think £7000 to exit a mortgage early is EXTORTIONATE and yes, I know, I signed the mortgage agreement and yes, it is quite plainly stated in their terms and conditions but I never envisioned having to exit the mortgage early. In order to "review" this "non-negotiable charge," I would have to send them payslips, income & expenditure statements, a letter from my employer, a forwarding address, my proposal to repay after redemption, details of my partners income & expenditure, whether my new residence was mortgaged or rented………oh, and the last time I wiped my own backside plus a cheque for £140 to cover their valuation costs !! WHAT ARE THESE PEOPLE ON ?! I sent them all that (less the wiped backside bit,) and a covering letter advising that as my buyers had already had a valuation recently, I was most certainly not going to give them £140. They can have a whip round ! I think they might have got the message as apparently, they wrote to me yesterday asking to see a copy of the valuation, which I am not party to because it's not normal process for the seller to see the valuation so I have got my estate agent working really hard on that one !

I have asked this of GE:

A reduction in the ERC to cover agency sales costs (£3173) plus solicitor costs, (£800.) I have then offered to pay back £700 of the solicitor costs to them after I move over 4 months. How NICE is that of me ?! So in effect, I am asking for just over 3 grand back. Not unreasonable when they still get all their legal costs paid and all the capital they lent me back. They are such b*s*ard*s. No thought to the "customer," just lining their pockets. You can't tell me that it costs them £7000 on an interest only mortgage within the first 3 years to administer it. What bull !!

When I get out of this, I am going to string them from the sky. The thing is, now, I need something from them and it's so hard to hold back and they, it seems, hold most of the playing cards at the moment.

Im not going to court, I cant afford it ! Everything costs money. I'll just have to keep hassling them. Thing is, I have done no work for about a week at work. Luckily, I am in a management role with no on-site supervision so I can sort of get away with it, and the HR manager has said I need to take time for me to get this sorted but it's so hard to concentrate on work. There must be a life beyond this……...

 

Give me the time and date of the rally on GE. I will BE THERE.

 

Sorry, that was another rant.

[Bona]

Is the baliffs appointmenmt for tomorrow if not you are ok for a bit the court makes an order for you to vacate your house by if you dont then your mortgage company puts in the baliffs they then write to you giving a date at any time you can go back to court to get the order suspended if you have a sale they will do it I know Ihave been there

[Bona]

Also believe that thye cant charge erc if there is a possession order in force and I will have an answer to that at the end of the week

[Jacqueline07]

Magictorch - has the court bailiff contacted you already - this happened to me in 2004 and the bailiff was really helpful. He left a mobile number - I contacted him - he advised me to go back to the court which I did. Surely you must be able to go back to court and explain the situation - this sounds ludicrous. good luck.

[magictorch1976]

Hello all

 

It hasn't reached bailiff stage yet. Tomorrow is the last day before they will apply to court to enforce the order but that means MORE costs. I know I have a bit of breathing space but everything is "we will review and get back to you in 5 working days." Not once have they picked up the phone to me yet everytime I call they insist on reconfirming all my contact numbers. Bona - I would be really interested in your spin on the charges. Are you talking fees or ERC's or both ? How are you finding out or where from, if you dont mind me asking.

 

Thanks a lot all

 

Jamie

[Bona]

They only apply to the office for a bayliffs apointment and they might not if they know you are going to sell they are probally just winding you up I am seeing a Barrister on Thursday for advice I have a claim for charges and ERC I have asked him a number of questions depending on his answers I will decide what to do I thought better to spend ou a few hundred know rather than loose thousands do you have an indmnity clause in your morgtage terms ours said reasonable solicitors costs so we are also going for unreasonable costs

[magictorch1976]

The audacity of this company is amazing. I have just had a conversation with their litigation department, in which they informed me that "with due respect, we have bigger fish to fry and you are nowhere near a bailiff's appointment. Your arrears would have to be DOUBLE what they are now."

How rude. I was also told that my request would be "worked through the queue as every piece of mail is urgent and we don't bump anyone up the queue." !!!!!!!!!! I wish they would put this all in writing or I had recorded that conversation. Basically, they are wondering what I am bothered about ?!!?!?!

Apparently, my case is being dealt with by the Litigation Correspondance Manager, probably someone with no power or a really evil mind.......

[GLADSTANES]

Hallo.

 

How much will you still owe given the current figures after sale of your house?

 

Gladstanes

[GLADSTANES]

More.

 

My inclination would be to play hardball with these idiots.

 

Send them a letter by Special Delivery.

Tell them your solicitor has a copy.

 

In it outline your offer i.e. how much they get from proceeds of sale.

 

Essentially say "if you refuse it you can repossess, but I will be contacting the FSA and any other relevant body re your unreasonable behaviour.

You will then drown in a torrent of negative publicity and probably be heavily fined."

 

Let them decide and make sure their decision is in writing.

 

All the best

 

Gladstanes.