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    • Hi, despite saying you would post it up we have not seen the WS or EVRis WS. Please can you post them up.
    • Hi, Sorry its taken me so long to get round to this, i've been pretty busy today. Anyway, just a couple of things based on your observations.   Evri have not seen/read my WS (sent by post and by email) as they would have recognised the claim value is over £1000 as it includes court fees, trial fees, postage costs and interests, and there is a complete breakdown of the different costs and evidence. I'd say theres a 1% chance they read it , but in any case it won't change what they write. They refer to the claim amount that you claimed in your claim form originally, which will likely be in the same as the defence. They use a simple standard copy and paste format for WX and I've never seen it include any amount other than on the claim form but this is immaterial because it makes no difference to whether evri be liable and if so to what value which is the matter in dispute. However, I have a thinking that EVRi staff are under lots of pressure, they seem to be working up to and beyond 7pm even on fridays, and this is quite unusual so they likely save time by just copying and pasting certain lines of their defence to form their WX.   Evri accepts the parcel is lost after it entered their delivery network - again, this is in my WS and is not an issue in dispute. This is just one of their copy paste lines that they always use.   Evri mentions the £25 and £4.82 paid by Packlink - Again, had they read the WS, they would have realised this is not an issue in dispute. They probably haven't read your WS but did you account for this in your claim form?   Furthermore to the eBay Powered By Packlink T&Cs that Evri is referring to, Clauses 3b and c of the T&Cs states:  (b)   Packlink is a package dispatch search engine that acts as an intermediary between its Users and Transport Agencies. Through the Website, Users can check the prices that different Transport Agencies offer for shipments and contract with the Transport Agency that best suits their needs on-line. (c)  Each User shall then enter into its own contract with the chosen Transport Agency. Packlink does not have any control over, and disclaims all liability that may arise in contracts between a User and a Transport Agency This supports the view that once a user (i.e, myself) selects a transport agency (i.e Evri) that best suits the user's needs, the user (i.e, myself) enters into a contract with the chosen transport agency (i.e, myself). Therefore, under the T&Cs, there is a contract between myself and Evri.   This is correct but you have gone into this claim as trying to claim as a third party. I would say that you need to pick which fight you wan't to make. Either you pick the fight that you contracted directly with EVRi therefore you can apply the CRA OR you pick the fight that you are claiming as a third party contract to a contract between packlink and EVRi. Personally, I would go with the argument that you contracted directly with evri because the terms and conditions are pretty clear that the contract is formed with EVRi and so if the judge accepts this you are just applying your CR under CRA 2015, of which there has only been 2 judges I have seen who have failed to accept the argument of the CRA.   Evri cites their pre-existing agreement with Packlink and that I cannot enforce 3rd party rights under the 1999 Act. Evri has not provided a copy of this contract, and furthermore, my point above explains that the T&Cs clearly explains I have entered into a contract when i chose Evri to deliver my parcel.    This is fine, but again I would say that you should focus on claiming under the contract you have with EVRi as you entered into a direct contract with them according to packlink, as this gives less opportunites for the judge to get things wrong, also I think this is a much better legal position because you can apply your CR to it, if you dealt with a third party claim you would likely need to rely on business contract rights.   As explained in my WS, i am the non-gratuitous beneficiary as my payment for Evri's delivery service through Packlink is the sole reason for the principal contract coming into existence. I wouldn't focus this as your argument. I did think about this earlier and I think the sole focus of your claim should be that you contracted with evri and any term within their T&Cs that limits their liability is a breach of CRA. If you try to argue that the payment to packlink is the sole reason for the contract coming in between EVRI and packlink then you are essentially going against yourself since on one hand you are (And should be) arguing that you contracted directly with EVRi, but on the other hand by arguing about funding the contract between packlink and evri you are then saying that the contract is between packlink and evri not you and evri.  I think you should focus your argument that the contract is between you and evri as the packlink T&C's say.   Clearly Evri have not read by WS as the above is all clearly explained in there.   I doubt they have too, but I think their witness statement more than anything is an attempt to sort of confuse things. They reference various parts of the T&Cs within their WS and I've left some more general points on their WS below although I do think  point 3b as you have mentioned is very important because it says "Users can check the prices that different Transport Agencies offer for shipments and contract with the Transport Agency that best suits their needs on-line." which I would argue means that you contract directly with the agency. For points 9 and 10 focus on term 3c of the contract  points 15-18 are the same as points 18-21 of the defence if you look at it (as i said above its just a copy paste exercise) point 21 term 3c again point 23 is interesting - it says they are responsible for organising it but doesnt say anything about a contract  More generally for 24-29 it seems they are essentially saying you agreed to packlinks terms which means you can't have a contract with EVRI. This isnt true, you have simply agreed to the terms that expressly say your contract is formed with the ttransport agency (EVRi). They also reference that packlinks obligations are £25 but again this doesn't limit evris obligations, there is nothing that says that the transport agency isnt liable for more, it just says that packlinks limitation is set. for what its worth point 31 has no applicability because the contract hasn't been produced.   but overall I think its most important to focus on terms 3b and 3c of the contract and apply your rights as a consumer and not as a third party and use the third party as a backup   
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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claiming against Lloyds


welshlady
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hi, im new here. can any one help me? ive recently sent a letter to lloyds asking for my charges to be repaid, ive sent this to my local branch, have i done the right thing. where do i go next arghhhhhhhhhhhh

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Hi & Welcome!:)

Don't worry your local branch should pass it on to the relevant department.

Which letter did you send? Do you know how much you are claiming back?

Good luck, let us know how you get on.

Barty:)

I WON!!!! :D :D :D

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloydstsb-successes/1774-barty-lloyds-tsb.html

 

IF I HAVE BEEN HELPFUL PLEASE CLICK THE SCALES:)

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  • 2 months later...

can any one help? lloyds have put a defence in and i am awaiting a date for court hearing. i have read on this site that i need to obtain term and condition for when i opened my account. does any one know where i can obtain these from :?::?::?::?:

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can any one help? lloyds have put a defence in and i am awaiting a date for court hearing. i have read on this site that i need to obtain term and condition for when i opened my account. does any one know where i can obtain these from :?::?::?::?:

 

 

We are collectiong them here

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  • 2 weeks later...

hi, im not sure if this letter means i should turn up in court or if i just need to send the info they ask for could you take a look

before deputy district judge roozw sitting at bradfor county court, the law courts, exchange, bradford

upon the courts own mention

it is ordered that

1. by 4.00 pm 6th july the claimant do file and serve the defendant the following further information;

a. on what dates did the defendant levy the charges complained of

b. how much were they

c. whaqt reason was given ( e.g. unauthorised overdraft)

d. was the amount charged in accordance with the defedants terms of business at the time it was charged

e. what does the claimant say a fair charge should have been

f. how does the claimant calculate that a fair charge

2. in default, this claim will be struck out .

3. on compliance this file will be considered further by a distric judge and further directions given

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You don't need to attend court. Send both to the court and the SCM a schedule of charges together with this:

 

IN THE XXXXXXX COUNTY COURT

 

CLAIM NO. XXXXXXXX

 

BETWEEN

 

XXXXXX XXXXXXXX

Claimant

 

-and-

 

LLOYDS TSB BANK Plc

Defendant

 

 

Pursuant to Order by District Judge Rooz Dated xx/xx/xx

a. On what dates did the defendant levy the charges complained of?

b. How much were they?

c. What reason was give (e.g unauthorised overdraft)

 

Please see the attached Schedule of Charges

 

d. Was the amount charged in accordance with the Defendants terms of business at the time it was charged?

 

The Claimant is aware that each charge has been debited by the Defendant from the Claimant’s account pursuant to the terms and conditions signed by the Claimant when the account was opened.

The Claimant does not contend that the same should not have been charged; merely that the charge made should have represented the Defendant’s liquidated losses and not the fixed charges applied by the Defendant according to the terms and conditions in force at the time the charge was made.

e. What does the Claimant say a fair charge should have been?

f. How does the Claimant caculate that fair charge.

 

The Claimant cannot specifically reply to this request in that the amount that should have been charged cannot be specified because the Defendant has failed to reply to the Claimant’s request for a breakdown of costs incurred by the Defendant in applying charges to the Claimant’s account. The Defendant’s contentions that the charges are fair, reasonable and transparent are denied because of this material failure to disclose this information. Had the Claimant been made aware of the breakdown of each and every charge debited, the Claimant would have been able to reply to this particular request.

 

I, the Claimant, believe all facts stated to be true.

 

Signed,

 

Dated.

 

  • Haha 1
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is it possible to add charges? i am awaitinga court date and have been asked by the courts to send of a letter of charges. the amount has increased since i first started claiming. not sure what to do

can any one help

 

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Yes however it will cost you £35 which you can not reclaim. Use the N244 to amend and add the charges. You could just wait and ask the bank to include the charges in your settlement or you could start a new claim on completion of this.

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You can send them your schedule of charges up to the date you first filed (i.e your claim). You can't add anything on afterwards - although it might be interesting to inform the court of the further charges you are facing. Do it and see what happens :D

BTW haven't you got another thread somewhere? If so just keep using the one; don't start a new one every time you have a question. That way we can keep an eye on you and help every time you post.

 

If I have helped please click on the scales.

 

BD

broke dave v LTSB WON £3840 2 weeks before court.

Mrs broke dave v Barclays accepted offer £355.

broke dave v LTSB (Business) Prelim stage.

broke dave v LTSB (2nd Claim) LBA stage.

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No need to shout (take your caps lock off).

 

Anyway here is your form:

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/n244_0400.pdf

 

I would not amend the claim to include additional charges, it will cost you £35 that is non refundable and will cause a delay of a few months. Just start again once this claim is completed.

If I have been helpful please click on my star and add a comment.

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I have an IDENTICAL order as welshlady (including deadline and judge ... see my thread). I like the letter you have included Michael Browne [post#8] - thanks for including it. My only concern is the sentence, "The Claimant cannot specifically reply to this request in that the amount that should have been charged cannot be specified because the Defendant has failed to reply to the Claimant’s request for a breakdown of costs incurred by the Defendant in applying charges to the Claimant’s account". I don't think I have ever explicitly asked for this info, though it was included in my allocation questionnaire as recommended in this thread. So is it still valid to include it, or is there some other wording I should use?

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