Credit AGREEMENT -or- APPLICATION? RBS Advantage Card

[Peterbard]

Hi

Sorry i did not get back to you i have been a bit crook ok now though.

Firstly did you arder a new card and was the previous one cancelled or the account closed.

REg 7 states

7.--(1) The provisions of these Regulations shall apply to modifying

agreements which vary or supplement earlier credit agreements or earlier hire

agreements and which are, or are treated under section 82(3) of the Act as,

regulated agreements, subject as hereinafter mentioned.

(2) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (12) below, documents embodying

modifying agreements varying or supplementing earlier credit agreements shall

contain the information set out in Column 2 of Part I of Schedule 8 to these

Regulations in so far as it relates to the type of modifying agreement referred to in Column 1.

The information required therfor should include but not be a exhaustive list:

Title

 

Agreement modifying a Credit Agreement and

regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974

And all of the following.

(2) Where the document

The varied credit limit under the modified agreement

expressed as--

(a) a sum of money;

(b) a statement that the credit limit will be determined

by the creditor from time to time under

that agreement and that notice of it will be given

by him to the debtor;

© a sum of money together with a statement that

the creditor may vary the credit limit to such sum

as he may from time to time determine under that

agreement and that notice of it will be given by

him to the debtor; or

(d) in a case not falling within head (a), (b) or ©

above, either a statement indicating the manner

in which the credit limit will be determined and

that notice of it will be given by the creditor to

the debtor or a statement indicating that there is

no credit limit.

(1) The varied or supplemented rate of any interest

on the credit to be provided under the modified

agreement or a statement that the rate of interest under

the earlier agreement is unchanged.

(2) The total amount of other charges included in the

total charge for credit in relation to the credit to be

provided under the modified agreement, except that,

where any such charge cannot be stated as an amount,

wthheicrhateitomf athyebcehacraglceuloartetdhe afnodrmtuhlea tointaalcacmoroduanntceofwtihthe

other such charges shall be shown separately.

Total chargefor credit, rate of interest, etc

. (1) The varied or supplemented rate of any interest

on the credit to be provided under the modified

agreement or a statement that the rate of interest under

the earlier agreement is unchanged.

(2) The total amount of other charges included in the

total charge for credit in relation to the credit to be

provided under the modified agreement, except that,

where any such charge cannot be stated as an amount,

wthheicrhateitomf athyebcehacraglceuloartetdhe afnodrmtuhlea tointaalcacmoroduanntceofwtihthe

other such charges shall be shown separately.

The timing of repayments to be made under the

(i) the amount of the credit to be provided modified agreement expressed by reference to one or

suunmdercreadnit eisarvliaerriedagoreresmupepnltemfoenr tefdix;ed- mo(are) othfethdeatfeoslIoonwiwngh-ich each repayment is to be made;

(ii) the repayment provisions of an earlier (b) the frequency and number of the repayments and

agreement for fixed-sum or for running- the date of the first repayment or a statement

account credit are varied or supple- indicating the manner in which that date will be

mented; or determined;

(iii) any char~e included in the total charge © a statement indicating the manner in which the

for credit in relation to an earlier dates of the repayments will be determined.

The amount of each repayment to be made under the

paragraph 11 but not falling within paragraph modified agreement expressed as-

13. (a) a sum of money;

(b) a specified proportion of a specified amount

(including the amount outstanding from time to

time);

© a combination of heads (a) and (b) above; or

(d) in a case where the amount of any repayment

cannot be expressed in accordance with head (a),

(b) or © above, a statement indicating the

manner in which the amount will be determined.

 

Sorry about the length but i think they need reminding they can't just say sectio 7 without backing it up with the correct info.

 

More importantly if the card they sent was a replacement card under the same agreement then the above applies if the card they sent was unrequested and you had terminated the agreement or it was in default due to none compliance to your earlier request then you have cause for action under section 51 Prohibition of unsolicited credit-tokens.

 

Best regards

Peter

[Josie8]

I have located my copies of 3 original agreements while I am awaiting the lenders to comply with my CCA requests.

 

Agreement No 1. MBNA signed by me dated 14/08/96 contains no signature box for them, no interest rate no credit limit and no reference to a credit limit and says at top of paper

INVITATION accept your no annual fee card now with the lowest rate in the uk today

 

then underneath

Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

It contains my name and address, their name and address, a section on payment protection insurance (which I had ticked) and then finally

 

Principle Cardholders Application And Declaration

Please issue an MBNA Credit card to me . I confirm the information given is true and complete. You may make such enquiries as you consider neccessary in connection with this credit agreement or any other product that you wish to offer me in the future. I authorise you to disclose any information about me and my MBNA Credit Card account and or payment protection insurance to any credit reference agebncy who may retain a record of any such search. Information thus registered is used only to help any credit decisions or occaionally for fraud prevention or tracing of debtors. I accept and agree to be bound by the MBNA Credit Card Conditions of Use (as set out overleaf and as ammended from time to time). I understand that MBNA reserves the right to issue a standard card.

Then

YOUR RIGHT TO CANCEL

Once you have signed this agreement you will have for a short time a right to cancel it . Exact details of how and when you can do this will be sent to you by post by the bank

 

This is a Credit agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 Sign if only if you want to be legally bound by its terms.

I have signed it and dated it (no space for their signature)

 

Then under this section reference is made to Data Protection Act a short time

 

 

Does this look like a properly executed agreement - I've tried to fill in info on the checker link but it won't let me because I have no info on credit etc to input.................... :confused:

[Peterbard]

I have located my copies of 3 original agreements while I am awaiting the lenders to comply with my CCA requests.

 

Agreement No 1. MBNA signed by me dated 14/08/96 contains no signature box for them, no interest rate no credit limit and no reference to a credit limit and says at top of paper

INVITATION accept your no annual fee card now with the lowest rate in the uk today

 

then underneath

Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

It contains my name and address, their name and address, a section on payment protection insurance (which I had ticked) and then finally

 

Principle Cardholders Application And Declaration

Please issue an MBNA Credit card to me . I confirm the information given is true and complete. You may make such enquiries as you consider neccessary in connection with this credit agreement or any other product that you wish to offer me in the future. I authorise you to disclose any information about me and my MBNA Credit Card account and or payment protection insurance to any credit reference agebncy who may retain a record of any such search. Information thus registered is used only to help any credit decisions or occaionally for fraud prevention or tracing of debtors. I accept and agree to be bound by the MBNA Credit Card Conditions of Use (as set out overleaf and as ammended from time to time). I understand that MBNA reserves the right to issue a standard card.

Then

YOUR RIGHT TO CANCEL

Once you have signed this agreement you will have for a short time a right to cancel it . Exact details of how and when you can do this will be sent to you by post by the bank

 

This is a Credit agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 Sign if only if you want to be legally bound by its terms.

I have signed it and dated it (no space for their signature)

 

Then under this section reference is made to Data Protection Act a short time

 

 

Does this look like a properly executed agreement - I've tried to fill in info on the checker link but it won't let me because I have no info on credit etc to input.................... :confused:

 

HI

Need to see what i s on the back

 

Best regards

Peter

[Josie8]

Hi Peter,

 

Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. Regretfully I only photocopied the front of the MBNA application form - so untill they send me their version I won't know.

 

There is no reference anywhere though on the front to an APR rate or interest or anything like it.

 

I've tried reading through the various threads to try and determine what makes an agreement properly executed but it seems to alter and change and I freely confess I've lost the plot on it so far...............

 

I also have a copy of a Morgan Stanley dated 2000 again no interest or APR and saying just above signature 11. Please sign and return in the freepost envelope provided - your application must be received by us before 1st September 2000................

 

Any info on what MUST be on application to be a properly executed agreement would be verrrry much appreciated

[davefirewalker]

this could do with bringing to the fore again

 

Dave

[redsue]

laughable reply back from MBNA regarding my ongoing CCA issue with them if anyone would care to comment

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/81907-mbna-ding-ding-round-3.html#post984080

[Josie8]

subscribing

[out of cash]

hi everyone ,

 

it seems to me a lot of these so called applications are being made to look like agreements, is all creditors need to do is copy and paste certain things like this is a cca agreement by the consumer credit act crap and they think this is sufficient i have 5 cca requests which clearly state they are applications with embodied parts for them to be relevant as an agreement i would like to see a judge say this is a true copy of the said agreement when in bold text they all say APPLICATION.Which is pre contractual.hope some of this helps someone:p

[mfpa]

Hi. Sorry to barge in.

 

MBNA have sent me this document in response to one of my CCA requests.

If anybody has any observations/opinions, I would be grateful if you could post on my thread. Thanks.

[redsue]

mfpa - the link doesn't seem to work. Can you repost it please.

[ecobabe]

hi, i wonder id someone could give an opinion on this. I kept up with this thread and other 2 similar ones for ages but recently been too busy with bank charges. so i hope you don't mind. friend showed me a copy she received from Royal bank of scotland after sending cca request for credit card. They sent a copy of application form(i know that's dodgy!), It says at top "application form" and she has signed it, but there is no box for them to sign; it's been rubber stamped over this with RBS and a signature from them. Also nothing on back , they enclosed a copy of recent t&c's. Now i know that an application form is not agreement and they should include t&c from when it was taken out. I can't scan it on and i just wanted to be sure that i am not giving her bum advice, but I reckon that the RBS rubber stamp with signature. fact that's states application form and new T&C's makes it unenforceable. I know you can't give definitive answer without seeing it, but does that sound about right? i've also told her to get on here and check herself!!!

[davefirewalker]

The rubber stamp is acceptable

 

The T&C must be when she took out the card

 

The agreement must contain the prescribed terms

 

The agreement must contain the required terms....however these can be made reference to if they are in the T&C.

 

SO......

 

has the Application/agreement got

 

1 rate of interest

2 amount of credit

3 credit limit

4 repayment schedule

 

These must be in the signature document

 

other terms "CAN" be in the t&c, but if it is not the original then you can't know if they were enforceable or not. They have not complied with the cca 1974 if they havent supplied true copies of the original documents

 

Finally when was this taken out, different rules apply

 

Dave

[mfpa]

mfpa - the link doesn't seem to work. Can you repost it please.

 

No idea how that happened - lost "/forum" from middle of the URL.

 

Try this link.

 

I have edited the link in my other post, as well.

 

Thanks for pointing it out.

 

 

 

 

[ecobabe]

thanks davefirewalker. i will see if we can scan it somewhere, it was taken out in 2000

[davefirewalker]

thanks davefirewalker. i will see if we can scan it somewhere, it was taken out in 2000

 

I think if you took it out in 2000 then you could be on a winner, Ive not seen many good agreements from around then.

 

Dave

[kiri260180]

Hello

 

Please could somebody help. I have received through an application form from them in reply to my CCa request and the application form is completely smudged I cant read any of the print on it. From reading through this thread it probably is a credit agreement as I can just about make out a point for their signature. There is not date stamp on it but I really cant make out anything else.

 

Does this mean that they cant hold me to it?

 

Please I really need some help with this one I would really apreciate it if somebody could look over it. I have attached the file and Barclarcard conditions that were sent with it.

 

thank you kiri260180

Terms.pdf

[joneshousehold]

You have left your personal details in the application pdf. It's a good idea to balank those out (don't know how to do it, sorry!)

 

If the copy is illegible then you cannot conclude the original was legible so Section 61 failing first of all. Secondly an application form is not an agreement. Peterbard has produced some excellent info on this and it is all in this thread. It will take a lot of finding as the thread is so long but it is probably the only way to find out what you need to know. There is a 'search this thread' button towards the top of the forum page (just below the page count) which allows you to search. Look for posts by Peterbard. Peter is very knowledgeable but his typing isn't his best skill so you have to stick with it when reading his posts.

 

When you have got to grips with it try opening a new thread for your own case and if no one spots it and answers any questions, post a link to it here.

 

Good luck

[kiri260180]

thank you for your help - luckily the application was filled out over 8 years ago so none of it is current not even my surname!!

 

I will read through the thread, and start my own one.

 

It is just hard to find out if my agreement is and agreement or not as I cant read any of it.

 

I will go back to Barclays again and ask them if this is all they have got as well.

 

thank you for your help. kiri260180

[Josie8]

If its illegible which it clearly is they still ahven't complied with your request.

 

I suggest you remove any of the personal name address info because even though it isn't current now it will identify you to the MIB's who lurk about reading these threads - so then they can link anything on any fo your threads. Its best to be anonymous .........

[LISAM696969]

HI CAN ANYONE TAKE A LOOK AT THIS SEE IF IT IS A VALID AGREEMENT GOT NO CREDITOR SIGNATURE DON'T KNOW IF ANYTHING ELSE, ANY HELP WOULD BE GREATLY ACCEPTED

[Timsta]

Lisa,

 

I believe the very words "Application Form" make this non-enforceable.

[joesoap]

Lisa,

 

I believe the very words "Application Form" make this non-enforceable.

 

Couldn't have put it better myself!

[Peterbard]

Couldn't have put it better myself!

 

Hi Why is the text so wide?

 

Sorry hi Joe

 

You would think so wouldn't you saddly it is not the case unfortunately the heading whilst included in Schedule one of the regs and therefore must be included in the agreement is not a prescribed term and therfore not actionable under section 127.

However the chances of a judge enforcing this would be slim if it went to court as the lack of the proper heading may be considered to be missleading.

 

Regards

Peter

[LISAM696969]

this all sounds good what about the lack of signature from creditor and no cancellation rights etc , anything on them ? lisa

[Curlyben]

Surely Peter, as there are prescribed terms missing, namely credit limit, interest rate and their signature this makes it unenforceable ??